Benelux Train question
 

Late next month I'll be taking trains from Trois-Ponts to Amsterdam on a Saturday morning.

Is there a major benefit to booking ahead on this route?

Not really. Thalys will cost you €35 and only save you 40 minutes or so. 1 less change with the regular trains too - Tois-Pont to Liege to Maastricht to Amsterdam.

If you have time and are interested you could get out at Maastricht for a look at the city or head to the US War cemetery at Margraten.

Thalys will cost €35more is what i meant to say!

I knew what you meant ;)

Thanks

I'll be in A'dam the last weekend of April - maybe a GTG???

Be sure to check out King's Day - a huge huge citywide festival sometime the last of April - used to be April 30th - really about the most amazing citywide festival I've seen.

It's hard to say what a Thalys train would cost - I booked Amsterdam to Paris tickets with a few weeks notice for my son recently for 39 euros total and Brussels to Amsterdam for 29 euros - plus for a few euro you can get the ABS fare - All-Belgian Stations fare where you can take any train within 48 hours of your Thalys train from Brussels or wherever to Amsterdam at just a few euros cost. I suspect if you went to www.thalys.com and checked you may find significant savings via Thalys IF you get the deepest discounted tickets. Thalys does not have a flat-fare structure as domestic Dutch and Belgian trains do I think - no reservations possible either on those I think so with a valid ticket just hop any train anytime - Thalys tickets are of course for a specific train and Thalys trains are much more comfy than the IC regular trains IME and the regular trains in 2nd class can always be quite full or full - you can still board.

I take IC trains Brussels to Amsterdam a lot and often leaving Brussels 2nd class is SRO and first class sparsely filled - always foreign travelers with standard class tickets sit in the empty first-class cars thinking what the heck but are shoed out by the conductor - I've seen Dutch conductors get quite militant if they do not move pronto as he/she told them.

I'd check yourself both sources - Belgian rail site for trains to Maastrich and Dutch site for Amsterdam from there but really if you are going to buy tickets on the non-Thalys route there is absolutely no reason TMK why you should do that before just ready to hop on the train - again I believe no reservations are possible.

Some stations in Amsterdam may be closer to your hotel than Centraal station - you can change at Schiphol airport if coming via Thalys or at Duivendrecht (I think) if coming from Maastricht to Amsterdam-RAI and Amsterdam-Zuid-WTC stations that are closer to some hotels, including those in the Vondel Park/Museumplein area - or just as close to the latter and easier if going by taxi or tram.

You may want to look at www.sedat61.com for his take on Thalys trains, the ABS fare and the cheaper tickets. Full fare on Thalys is much more expensive usually than IC trains.

>>used to be April 30th<<

It is April 27 and I'm arriving after that on purpose.

Are you coming to the Battle of the bulge area by Eruostar + train - if so the ABS fare is also available in conjunction with a Eurostar train - letting you go on to any Belgian station by any train (not sure about Thalys).

<Thalys will cost €35 more> Not sure how this was dervied as Thalys have a Byzantine fare structure much like British trains - there is no flat fee unless full-fare is what she used. I would think with the ABS fare _based on my experience of booking Brussels-amsterdam Thalys for 29 euros with Thalys = ABS fare you could do the whole trip for about 35 euros - if you got the deepest dicsounted ticket and if that is the case then if the Thalys costs 35 euros more than the other train link would be free?

When are you arriving? Kings Day is indeed the 27th, and that is a Monday this year.

You can email me using my user name at outlook.com, hopefully we can meet up.:)

PalenQ I did a search on nsinternational.nl and put in a date near the end of April. In fact several dates near the end of April. It was always cheaper, and easier to use the normal trains over Thalys. To use Thalys Janis would need a train to Liege, then one to Leuven then one to Antwerp where she could get the Thalys to Amsterdam.

did you figure using the ABS fare which for a few euros would take her to Antwrp on any train within 24 hours (48?) of her Thalys train. Well I did not know how you came up with a flat 35 euros more expensive when Thalys fares are all over the ballpark.

If janis is arriving on the 27th be prepared for trains to abort themselves before Centraal Station, which IME can be closed that day due to overcrowding - happens much of the time and trams are shut down and there may be no way yo get to hotels, etc. Central Amsterdam is a mob scene that day which some like and others do not - folks - I aw young teens smoking pot everywhere and many carrying cases of Heineken around - a party for sure and yes something for everyone but again some may find it DREADFUL! Many sources advise staying away on King's Day - others like me find it awesome - folks selling things everywhere -a giant flea market where folks stake out places on any open pavement the night before - bands on boats - jazz bands a lot so it can be something for everyone but I would caution anyone arriving in central Amsterdam that it may hard to reach your hotel, depending on where it is except by foot.

check www.thalys.com - I just did for a 10:30am train from Antwerp to Amsterdam and fares were as low as 29 euros still available - plus 5 euros for the ABS fare and you have a total of 34 euros - these fares are available a day earlier and on other trains. If it's quicker to go to Brussels from 3 Bridges the fare is the same from there to Amsterdam - 29 euros on several trains.

Not sure what the fare on the Dutch Railways site is for the Maastricht route or timing but it cannot be 35 euros cheaper than the Thalys trains I found. I suggest you search www.thalys.com - the official site.

To use Thalys Janis would need a train to Liege, then one to Leuven then one to Antwerp where she could get the Thalys to Amsterdam.>

accoding to www.bahn.de/en the quickest way from Trois-Ponts to Amsterdam is via Brussels - Trois-Ponts to Liege - Liege to Brussels Midi - 4:15 hours - the IC route takes 1/2 to 1 one longer either via Antwerp or Maastricht.

Oops - I thought I read janis is arriving that day - King's Day on purpose to see it - now re-reading she is arriving after it on purpose - sorry for the mistake.

PalenQ I did a search on nsinternational.nl and put in a date near the end of April. In fact several dates near the end of April>

I did too on www.thalys.com and you are right - except for a few early and late Brussels-Amsterdam trains the discounted tickets were sold out and 80 euro full fare was the only fare- though some too early or late trains were still at 29 euros (all plus the 5 euro or so SBS fare - Any Belgian Station.

My original mistake was putting in May 27-28-29, etc where nearly all trains had 29 euro fares available but correcting it to April those were all gone. I apologize and am sorry for the mistakes but the point is when someone says:

"Is there a major benefit to booking ahead on this route?" The answer is a resounding yes - but way in advance as the 29 euro tickets which were freely availble a month later were all gone a month earlier.

So there is a major benefit to booking early on this route - which was my main point for others if not janis who waited too long to get them and now will pay about 45 euros more for a slower and less comfy connection.

Point is - with Thalys and many European trains booking way early saves money - wait too late and you'll pay a lot more.

You only need to book ahead when taking Thalys, not for regular trains. These are slower, but also cheaper. And you can stop for a few hours in Maastricht, as Hetismij suggests, and on to Amsterdam from there. Maastricht is lovely. Good restaurants too.

By the way Janisj, don't know your dates, but April 22nd has been announced as a national strike day. There will probably be no trains or busses running in Belgium on that day.

Maastricht - Amsterdam is 2,5 hours and costs 25 euros. Direct Intercity. Getting from Trois Ponts to Maastricht, however, takes almost as long.
Taking the Thalys via Brussels is 10 minutes faster than the Intercity via Liege and Maastricht. (4h40 as opposed to 4h50)

That's if the train employees are not on strike ;-)

That's if the train employees are not on strike>

so that's why on some dates they said no trains running? (Thalys)

Another vote for Maastricht. Don't miss the basilica (from my rather dated report):

"While St. Servaas Basilica was worth visiting just for its architecture and carvings, some dating back to the 1000s, and for the statues above the south doorway, the surprise was the Treasury. You start with silver, silver gilt, gold, ivory and textiles from the 1300s to the 1900s. Two particularly fine monstrances (for holding communion wafers), dating respectively to 1545 and 1905, positively dripped with intricate ornamentation. Then I found the saint's massive reliquary -- 1160, his silver key -- 890, and a 4th century bowl."

Yes Maastricht has a look and feeling all its own - sedate tree-lined boulevards and just a neat city - put your bags in a train station locker and explore - with a regular ticket I think you can get on and off as much as you like on the Liege to Maastrict to Amsterdam ticket. You do have to cancel those full-fare tickets yourself perhaps before boarding the train - common in Europe with full-fare tickets and trains that do not always have conductors. Honor system but with spot checks to catach miscreants as a full-fare ticket if not cancelled can be refunded or used again.

There are no spot checks on the Maastricht to Amsterdam train: there's a clamp down on fare dodging, so it's not an honor system any longer. There will be a conductor on board and s/he will check the entire train numerous times. Don't risk it: fines are steep.

I knew better than to ask a train question ;)

the devil made me do it >)

But I got it -- no need to pre-book. Thanks

Anyway there is a slight change in plans due to when my private guide in the Bulge is available so now I will be in A'dam on King's Day.

hetismij2: I'll e-mail you when I get this totally sorted out (later today or sometime Sunday)

Ah to be in Amsterdam on King's Day - you may even like it - there is really something for everyone - be sure to wear orange!

And If I were you I'd give www.thalys.com a shot periodically to see if any cheaper tickets come on and next time book really early to save lots of money and travel time!

What coffeeshop will your GTG be at? I may fly over if it is the right one!

That's fine Janis. Don't fret it. Make sure you get everything you want to do done. I know the Belgian part of the trip means a lot to you.

If we can't meet up this time then one of these years I will have to make the effort to get to London when you are there.
I shan't be heading to Amsterdam on Kings Day though!

@janisj: as soon as you leave the center of Amsterdam, things will be festive but much more toned down.

Or leave Amsterdam altogether and go somewhere interesting. the madness is only in Amsterdam: the rest of the country is in a festive mood, sans the madness.

To skip King's Day would be like going to N'Orlens during Mardi Gras and skipping the parades!

Take a look at how much fun you'll be missing:

https://www.google.com/search?q=king...=1600&bih=1075

My loose plan is to go to Keukenhof that day -- but still have to finish sorting things out.

Well if you come back at night things will be rowdy - huge concerts at Museumplein for young folk and beer really flows throughout the city.

You may have problems leaving the city if you wait too long in the morning - last time I was there I took a train into Amsterdam from my Haarlem B&B but ust after I got to Amsterdamned they closed Centraal station completely around noon - unless you take a tour to the Keukenhof (which being a holiday if like Sunday will be super crowded - many of the displays are inside hothouses with lines like at Versailles IME on weekends at least) - the easiest way to get there is to take a train to Delft and shuttle buses scoot between it and the Keukenhof all day - maybe there is a combo ticket on sale for train, bus and admission in Amsterdam.

If into walking a bit you could do like I did once - take a train to Haarlem and then to Hillegom and then waltz and tiptoe through the tulip fields the two miles or so to Keukenhof - or vice versa - Haarlem is a neat old town to explore if you haven't - and King's Day may be a less bombastic there. Bus #100 also goes from Haarlem thru the flower fields to Keukenhof and onto Leiden. But walking on these untrafficked for the most part sideroads to me was one of the highlights of my many trips to Holland - if tulips are not in bloom or bloomed there is a pulchritidinous show of other blossoms undualting as far as the eye can see.

The Keukenhof has a viewing platform from which you can ogle the neighboring flower fields but you can just go out the entrance and head north and take a short stroll - much more different at ground level - nice weather is nice for the outdoor flowers at the garden but the hothouses make Keukenhof OK even in the usual fickle funky weather of April!

Can't see spending more than say 3-4 hours in the rather small to me at least Keukenhof gardens - Leiden too is a neat old town to wander around.

Cheers!

janisj, there are years when train service is so disrupted that there are no trains into or out of Amsterdam all evening, although the last couple of years this hasn't happened in a massive way. But, you never know. It may be wise to go to Keukenhof, have dinner in Haarlem and then head back. King's Day rush hour out of Amsterdam is at about 6 - 7 PM, so if you travel into Amsterdam after about 8PM you'll be alright. But keep an eye on announcements at Haarlem station: once there you can always take the fast bus that ends up at Amsterdam Zuidoost and take the metro into town from there. That always runs.

PalenQ: just because you have delightful memories of Queen's Dat doesn't mean it's not hell on earth ;)

Keukenhof will be empty of Dutch people because they are all at.... you get the idea.

PalenQ: just because you have delightful memories of Queen's Day doesn't mean it's not hell on earth>
I rather like seeing Hell on Earth - taking it all in - plus the vast fle market where anyone can sell just about anything on sidewalks - but yes it is a mob scene and I understand folks not liking that. But it is also a spectacle to behold - what do you do on King's Day - hole up in your flat? Serious question.

And it is madness but there is a lot of fun things - I loved the jazz bands on boats putzing around the canals. I'd say if one does not like mob scenes to take it in early in the morning when it is rather calm IME.

menachem: >>Keukenhof will be empty of Dutch people because they are all at.... you get the idea.<<

Oh - that sounds good -- I was worried that is being a holiday Keukenhof would be mobbed. So maybe this fly in the ointment (the change of plans) may have a silver lining.

Simple: I don't go to Amsterdam. It's only there on that day that the city is filled with people from the provinces who have heard that Amsterdam is the place to let your hair down - and your pants, while being well and truly drunk. .

We used to live on 2e Lindendwarsstraat, in the Jordaan, ground zero for (then) Queen's day. We seriously fled the city on that day and came home to a puked on and pissed on front door and stoop, which we then had to clean late at night. Fun!

@janisj: the mayhem really is only in Amsterdam. Outside Amsterdam it can be festive in a nice way, but never the outrageous barf fest it is in Amsterdam.

Koningsdag in Leiden, last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy3emoHU5jI

Maybe I can go to Keukenhof first then on to Leiden and back into A'dam in the evening? Does than make sense?

Totally. I think the trick is to arrive at Amsterdam after 8PM. And another tip: from Leiden, take the train via Schiphol to Amsterdam Zuid or Amsterdam Rai. That way you by-pass Central Station, which is where the crowd will exit Amsterdam by train in the evening. It also allows you to get off at Schiphol and take the bus into Amsterdam if the train system is really clogged. But I think bypassing via Amsterdam Zuid will be wise in any case.

And I think King's Day in a place like Leiden will pleasantly surprise you. As a country we're very Orange minded, with committees of long standing directing festivities. Leiden is beautiful (disclaimer: I went to university there ;) )

Trains will surely be running to Zuid and RAI stations - you may have to change trains at Schiphol - as the one you are on may well be heading for Central Station so change onto the ones serving Amsterdam's Ring Railway - to Zuid and RAI stations, from each trams are right out front into the city center as far as they can possible go - well that is if the trams are running them - but there are plenty of taxis at either station as well.

But reconsider missing one of Europe's very best street festivals - when I was there a few years ago I would not categorize it like menachem - it's all over the city and was not nearly all madness - well what madness means to one means something else to others. If you strolled around until noon or so and took a tram to RAI or Zuid station for a train to Leiden and bus to Keukenhof you would see it IME before it gets mad - again jazz boats on the canals - colorful floats on the canal - a colorful festive thing that does get much more wild later in the day.

There are direct trains from Leiden to Schiphol and Amsterdam Zuid.

PalenQ, I lived in Amsterdam for well over 10 years. Some of those years we lived right in the center of town. But, whatever floats your boat, mate.

hetismij2 - you've got mail :)

menachem: Thanks -- I think it is really doable.

Some of the primary reasons I'm going to A'dam is to see Keukenhof, do the Late Rembrandt exhibition, and just wander --

Late Rembrandt is brilliant. And I really hope you hit the sweet spot with the tulips.

PalenQ, I lived in Amsterdam for well over 10 years. Some of those years we lived right in the center of town. But, whatever floats your boat, mate.>

Well note I said before noon it was very calm all over the centrum - if janis is at all curious about this extremely popular event to which Dutch from all over Holland folck to I urge her not to be scared off as up until noon or so the crowds were tolerable and I did not see anything to be scared of - so someone of janis' travel prowess will find it exciting perhaps - now later in the afternoon as young folks with ubiquitous cases of Heineken in tow flood in - then flee town to the Kuekenhof or whatever.

Just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! Again review the pictures I linked to above - it is madness but a real neat one and until later in the day not the mayhem often attached to it.