Perhaps they think I appreciate their work.

And they certainly could leave it where placed - if tipping is so rare in the UK, wouldn't they assume the money had been left inadvertently and to take it would be inappropriate?

No, they'd probably just roll there eyes and mutter "Yanks throwing their money around again - flash gits"

Nothing to do with tipping "money", but the other day at one of the ibis hotels near Gare de Lyon in Paris, when I was checking out, there was a couple of business men ( wearing suite and tie) from Ethiopia chekcing in. They gave a recepetion guy a bag of coffee beans, saying "for you from Ethiopia". When he did not understand, I told him it was a gift for you ! He looked surprised. Oh, ok, he said. I thought he could have shown a little more appreciation. I'm not sure whether he even said thank you or not. Perhaps he was that surpirse so forgot to say it... But I did think it was a nice ( and a bit funny )gesture. Ok, maybe the Ethiopian guest wanted to get rid of the bag of beans, I don't know.

Could be Peter Minuit all over again ;-)

I wonder how it would go over in the US if I didn't tip people based on UK custom? I could just explain - silly me, we don't do that! Would certainly make my trips cheaper and less confusing :)

Nyse, does it make you wonder, too, why all the vitriol over the simple act of leaving a £ on the bedside table? What can it hurt, yet all this seeming anger.

It's not about the money it is about imposing your customs on others. Do you refuse to cover your shoulders when you go in churches in Italy because in the US you don't? Of course not, you respect the culture and act as an Italian would. How is the culture of tipping any different other than it makes you (not directed at anyone I mean in general) feel good because in your culture it is showing appreciation. That doesn't mean the person that accepts it not insulted because of how their culture perceived a tip..

When I'm in the UK I try to follow UK customs (as long as I know what they are) -- to play 'Big American tipper' really labels one a git - a git w/ money but a git none the less.

I don't think leaving a small token of appreciation is a sign of disrespect as being uncovered in a church would be. I think the analogy is a weak one and I suspect the recipients of these small expressions appreciate it despite all the fuss being made over it here.

A git? For a £? This really has gotten funny now.

There is also the problem that if you tip you change expectations. Not necessarily for locals (although this may be a long term effect), but for other tourists. Then you get people like my taxi driver in Amman, Jordan, who when I handed him the previously agreed fare, said (somewhat aggressively) "but Americans tip". (I replied that I was British - I have dual citizenship.)

I am still awaiting an explanation of why it is so necessary for an American to tip in a non-tipping country. I am not holding my breath, as we run into the same issue on the Asian board, with Americans who insist on tipping in China, where tipping is called "the stupid foreigner tax".

If so many get 'angry' about a few coins shouldn't that tell you something?

Thursday I think you are right - many pubs in London will set up the debit machine at the tip screen for North Americans but not for locals. Happens all the time when I am out with friends.

Anyways clearly people will do as they please regardless of what locals tell them is the social norm.

>>They may take it (what else are they going to do?), but that doesn't mean they think you are being "magnanimous". More likely either patronising or stupid. Probably both.<<

That's pretty harsh. I would think they are more likely to think (a) the guests must be American and (b) ooh, maybe I'll treat myself on the way home tonight.

Most pubs I know have dropped the " do you want to leave a tip" option when using the card machine.

Two told me it pissed so many people off they stopped.

Victory for the sane.

>>Most pubs I know have dropped the " do you want to leave a tip" option when using the card machine.<<

Thank God for that. However we are still stuck with the now ubiquitous 12.5% automatic tip added onto restaurant bills in London. You never used to see this ten, twenty years ago. The practice has spread largely in my view as a result of the large number of US tourists visiting London. End result is that we locals are pressured into paying even more exhorbitant prices for eating out. Thankfully this insidious and completely alien custom has failed to catch on (at least for now) outside the London area.

"I would think they are more likely to think"

On what grounds? Other than as reinforcement for your strange desire to keep giving money away.

"If so many get 'angry' about a few coins shouldn't that tell you something?"

Yes, it tells me there are angry people posting on this thread. My English houseguest is shaking her head that anyone cares so much about such a small thing. Well, small to me.

Thank you, Kate, for injecting a bit of sense into what has largely been yet another excuse for abuse.

If it is such a small thing, why do you have a problem with not doing it?

To me it's not a problem. Do it or don't, it just doesn't seem to me close to "a problem".

This has been an interesting glimpse into some minds whose posts I've generally enjoyed in the past.

Mmeperdu - likewise

Jamikins, I think generally in life when we run across people who annoy us I try keep myself in line by reminding myself that in all likelihood the feeling is mutual, that they're probably also annoyed by me. So I think it must necessarily apply to forums too. In this case my personal plan will be to continue to enjoy those I've enjoyed in the past while just accepting on this one that we disagree.

Haha funny thing is I am not angry at all. I really don't care...I just find it frustrating when locals say what the local custom is and people argue against it.

But yes, let's agree to disagree. To be honest I had never heard of tipping housekeeping until recently and I am from Canada. I have asked my friends and family back at home previously and not one would even think of tipping housekeeping so I bet there have been many workers in American hotels who have thought badly of us as Canadians! :)

My guess is that the majority of Americans don't tip housekeeping staff in the US either.

I haven't been arguing against your customs or trying to convince anyone to change, really only reporting that I like to do it. I don't think it hurts anyone and if I thought it did I'd certainly stop.

As a Brit who sometimes leaves a modest tip as a reward for good service, I am particularly confused by the idea of tipping hosuekeeping staff.

Firstly, the job is very much carried out to instructions from the management, and the individual member of staff has very little discretion about how they do it.

Mostly though, as a hotel guest, you have very little interaction with the house-keeping staff, and may in fact never see them at all. If you leave tip because they did their job well, you cannot know if the tip will be collected by the same person. How would you feel if, after leaving a tip, you realised that the tip was collected by someone who then did the job badly?

Gordon

Any restaurant north of Watford would be laughed out of existence should it try the service charge scam.

2008 put a stop to that scam.

Great to know tipping isn't the norm for B&B's in London as I'm staying in one next month.
Tipping is expected everywhere in the USA because the minimum wage is equivalent to slave wages. A waitress, working full time, is expected to live on a salary of $2.13/hour here in South Carolina. That's $85/week.
Can you possibly imagine that???
You can argue all you want that she should get a better job, the government should raise the min wage, etc, etc...
So yes, that 15% tip you leave at a restaurant may be the difference between her kid eating that night or not.
But don't worry, while I'm in London, I won't tip a sou!

I am curious as a Canadian and a Brit...why are the wages so low...don't you have minimum wage?

If you leave a tip on a cc in the UK it is liable to be taken by the restaurant, not passed on to the staff.

Jamikins, yes there is a minimum wage but...each state sets it's own wage rate.

So it ranges from $4.00/hour to $9/hour.
And some states have an exemption for wait staff. They factor in 15% tip and SUBTRACT that from the hour wage. Which is why, in my state, a waitress earns only $2.13 an hour on her paycheck.

I can't express enough how I wish we would pay our wait staff (and other min wage earners) a REAL living wage and not expect the customer to make up the difference.

Sorry, got that wrong, they made it illegal 4 years ago as it was so common.

illegal but not impossible

Maybe the staff who receive tips in the US are happy to be paid such a small basic wage as their income tax bill will be correspondingly minimal. If tips are paid mainly in cash, how much gets declared?

I appreciate the knowledge. My wife and I are planning our first trip overseas, we're going to Ireland. I've worked in the restaurant industry here in the states and consider myself a very good tipper. I had no idea that it was not the norm in other Western countries. It will be hard for me not to tip, as that's become a habit for me, but I do think that "when in Rome" should rule the day so I'll do my best to abide by the customs of Ireland or whatever country we visit.
If I do tip, please excuse it as forgetfulness and habit, not meant as an insult. :-)

" I had no idea that it was not the norm in other Western countries."

As this will be your first trip overseas, don't assume that everything will be similar to what you're used to in the US.

No doubt. I know many things will be different, this was just one that I guess I never really thought about.
We're looking forward to it. I'm sure I'll be on here posting a lot of questions.

"The practice has spread largely in my view as a result of the large number of US tourists visiting London. End result is that we locals are pressured into paying even more exhorbitant prices for eating out. "

Gordon and all others, I vow to continue doing my part the next time I'm in London or anywhere in Europe to help out in any way that I can't.

I'd appreciate you importing your customs to the US. Employers should pay their people a livable wage and if it means more to the consumer, so bet it. Maybe then servers will quit coming to the table and introducing themselves and pestering me about my enjoyment of the food. They don't really care they just want us to clear the table for the next "tip"
grrrr

From what I gather from the above, many servers at posh restaurants are quite happy with the system. They are fleecing the customers for % tips of huge bills which leaves the, with income which are disproportionate to the value they add.

My parents fell out with an American couple they were friendly with, over a tipping incident in Washington. The bill for 4 of them, at some trendy joint, came to around $500. My Dad thought the meal in British restaurant would have been worth half that. Their American friends started a huge push to leave a 25% the restaurant's fashionable status. They haven't spoken since!

Dickie, it would appear then that they were friendly but not friends. Most friends don't fall out after 1 disagreement so maybe not much lost for either couple.