Thanks NYTraveler. My family doesn't drink any soda at all, so no worries there. We'll re-use water bottles like we do at home so we don't have to buy them all the time. Good for my wallet and good for the planet as well :).

I saw several farm houses for less than $150/night that we could fit in. Availability may be a problem, we need to get the itinerary nailed so we can get them reserved.

T4TX - Do you remember where you got the van? If I could find one for $200/day, that would be great. I'm going to double the fuel estimates as well.

You guys are great, I'll take notes and post a trip report up when I return.

Jack

Ironbender,

Just expect to pay more than your daily budget for food in Rome, even with the picnic and sandwich idea. You will also have a bigger price tag for admission tickets than you have budgeted.

In Tuscany and the Cinque Terre, you will have less cost in food and admissions, but more money will be going to the car and gas.

If you intend to get off the beaten track and not hear English, you're going to have to throw a dart at a map and go to a town you have NEVER heard of....

All the places you intend to visit are wonderful with much to see. You will love them all.


Don't worry too much about driving a full size van to the hilltowns. Just be SURE you stop outside the walls and park in the first parking lot you see. Walk up from there. Parking is indicated by a square blude sign with a white "P" inside.
Buon viaggio!

T4TX - Do you remember where you got the van? Yep. Florence. I checked www.kayak.com for full sized vans at some smaller towns and none were listed. Perhaps you could make arrangements ahead to pick one up.

Another possibility would be go from Rome straight to CT by train (4hrs), visit there, then pick up rental car in nearby La Spezia. According to Kayak AutoEurope has van available there for $208 per day. Then wander back thru Tuscany to Rome. Just something to consider.

I worry about 4 hours on a train for the kids directly after a trip from the US West coast.

I did some research on Santa Maria di Castellabate. Very nice. Campania was on my list of places to look into. I think it would be a nice place to replace Cinque Terre but I think I'd be missing the wine country feel of Tuscany.

Dayle, thanks for the info! I was in Costa Rica late last year and had the best time when just taking a random left and seeing where the road takes you. We'll do the same in Tuscany, literally taking the road less traveled.

T4TX, good idea. I'll see what they charge to drop the car off in Rome.

Jubilada, I am concerned about the 4 hour train ride as well but we might have to just suck it up. I'll bring some Nyquil to get them to relax a little :).

You guys are truly great, I am feeling much better about this trip!

IronBenderII,
This trip report contains some prices for meals http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...o-and-rome.cfm

Henry

On our first trip to Europe with our kids our then 7yr old son did not sleep on the flight over even though we left the states late in the evening and encouraged him to GO TO SLEEP. We got to Munich mid-morning and our room was not ready. He fell asleep at the table at lunch. We got into the room and put him into bed for a "nap", he slept until the next morning. He was then ready to go! So, it was good.

Perhaps being on a train would be enough excitement to keep the kids up until bedtime. If not there is room to nap. And you can buy food and have a picnic on the train.

You are going to have so much fun!!!

Good idea on how to get the kids to adjust to the timezone. The lazy day in whatever town we're staying in is planned because we know that we'll all probably be tired.

Thanks so much for all of the info guys, I don't think we could plan this trip w/o help like this!!

IronBender, also check flights into Rome/out of Pisa or vice versa. Pisa is a great little airport with a train station right next to the terminal. Easy to get in and out of. Also, Pisa is closer to Cinque Terre than Milan is.

As far as cold drinks, remember that there are supermarkets and grocers. While catering primarily to the locals, almost every shop has a few cold drinks, as well, and even if they charge a bit more for the cold than for the luke-warm drinks, you're better off than drinking at a bar. For 1.50 to 2.50 Euros, you'll get one liter of excellent fruit juice, or 1.5 liters of mineral water for less (I don't drink mineral water, so I don't know the precise price, sorry, but it's definitely low).

It may be hard to predict how your kids will deal with the jet lag. We first took our daughter (11yo) to Italy last year. I was concerned, because every time she's gone to visit my parents (2-hour time difference), she's had a very difficult time adjusting - her body basically never adjusts, she just stays up very late, and sleeps in.

On our trip to Europe, she did manage to sleep some on the plane. During our layover in Frankfurt, and on the short hop from there to Venice, I encourage her to take a little cat nap (as DH and I did). Nope, not for her! I bet her that she wouldn't last through dinner. I lost the bet - we arrived in Venice at 5 pm or so, traveled into the city, checked into our hotel, walked around a bit, and had dinner at 8 pm. She was still bright-eyed after dinner, though she did fall asleep very quickly once in bed!

While, as pointed out, it will be difficult to find places in Tuscany that are off the beaten track, you will find towns that seem not too touristy. Even tourist-filled San Gimignano is delightful in the evening or early morning, after and before the day-trippers have arrived. Also, whether in San G. or Rome, once you wander off onto the side streets, you won't see so many tourists, and you will feel that you're off the beaten track!

Also, the more well-known places tend to have better experiences for trying the wine and for places the kids may enjoy. For example, outside the city walls of Volterra are interesting remains of a Roman theater.

In terms of drinks with meals, it is most common to drink bottled water with dinner. To be honest, I've never asked for tap water (free) to be served with a meal, so I don't know if it's an option. So while the (bottled) water will be cheaper than the sodas, it won't be free.

I'm surprised that you found open-jaws flights more expensive than round-trip - I've always found them to be the same. When checking flights, did you use the "multi-city" or "open-jaws" options, rather than checking prices for two one-way flights? Especially when you add up the costs in time and money in returning to your initial city, you may find that open jaws is cheaper.

On the car/van rental, it sounds like you'll have to try to rent a van. It will be a challenge on narrow small-town streets, though keep in mind that many towns have parking areas on the outside of town, so you may not have to drive in.

Check on EU booster and car seat regulations - they're slightly different than those in the U.S., and US car and booster seats don't comply. You may need to rent two (a car seat for the 3yo, and a booster for the 9yo). I don't remember the exact requirements, other than that our very small 11yo was just tall enough to NOT be required to use a booster seat (whew).

For our trip with our daughter, we visited Venice, Florence and Rome, and spent almost one week in Le Marche. It was quieter, and offered a different perspective of Italy. We chose Le Marche because it was an area of Italy that DH and I had never been to; also there are a number of castles there, which DD enjoyed very much. Wandering through small hilltowns and the like isn't so interesting to kids, but if you can do enough research to locate possible places of interest to your kids, they'll enjoy it more.

Don't be surprised if your 14yo is offered wine, as well. The legal drinking age is 16, but Italians have a different attitude than many/some Americans, especially when the teen is eating with the parents.

Florence is not an quick or simple day trip from the Cinque Terre. Just accept the fact that you can't do everything (none of us can), and tell yourself you'll return to visit other places another time!