|
Bamboozled. First trip to Europe. Motorhome v car and other questions...
Warning - long post!...
OK, so here’s the background. I’ll be 40 next year and this is our first trip to Europe. Make that first major trip anywhere! We will be in Europe approx. 12 June 2017 to 7 July 2017. So we’ll be on the ground for around 24 days. We will have a hire vehicle of some sort for the duration. We have 2 kids who by then will be 8 and 5½. It’s important to know that my wife and I are very budget conscious. That’s not to say we don’t have enough money for the trip – we certainly do – but we are always likely to weigh up what we feel is the best value for money. You may tell us to splurge (fair enough) but that’s not quite who we are so better to know it upfront! Anyway, I’m attempting to plan this trip and seem to be going in circles now so I’m here for advice. We have some time in the UK and were also looking to spend some time in Europe. The thing is that taking into account how long it has taken us to get there the first time around, and how budget conscious we are, it is highly unlikely we’ll be back to Europe in the next 10 years or probably more. So we want to see as much as we can while we’re there. Now I fully realise everyone says to just go to 2 areas and spend your time there but I hope you can also take into account our desire to see a reasonable number of different things given the situation… My original itinerary looked something like this: Day 0: Arrive London (evening) Day 1: Recover, explore local area Days 2 – 3: Usual tourist stuff in London (Big Ben, Ride a double-decker bus, Buckingham Palace, etc). I don’t wish to spend longer in London even though I’m sure you could spend much more… Days 4 – 7 (3 nights): Wales staying at B&B’s. Days 8 – 15 (7 nights): Scotland – holidaying with my wife’s brother and his family. Will probably base ourselves in Edinburgh or quite possibly a smaller seaside town nearby and just do day-trips from there to see the sights. After this overnight back in London. Days 16 – 24 (8 nights) – Europe. OK, so I am reasonably happy with the UK side of things. I need to work out some specifics, but I’ll get there. As for Europe my original plan was to travel through northern France, Belgium, Netherlands then depart from Frankfurt. 13 ½ hours of actual drive time for my chosen route according to Mr Google. No problems at all since we’re from Australia so are very used to driving long distances (and that would be considered a short distance over here for a road trip in the time-frame). I totally realise we won’t see everything in between during that time – my thought was to see some of the major stuff and just take a good look at the countryside on the way. My preference for Europe was to hire a Motorhome for the Europe leg which means we aren’t on a schedule to get to a Hotel or B&B every night. If we want to stay longer in a spot we can do so then just make up the time later. I was pretty keen on that but then it occurred to me that this is when the Tour de France is on and I wondered if hiring a motorhome would be difficult/overly expensive at that time. So then I thought maybe we should reverse the trip – fly into Frankfurt, do the Europe side of things first then head over to the UK. However I’ve had difficulty finding anywhere online at all that will do a one-way hire of a motorhome. And even for just 9 days motorhomes don’t look cheap!... As a result I am now wondering if we should fly into London, cross the Channel for the motorhome tour of Europe (start at finish in Calais or similar), then return for the UK leg and finally fly out of London. Then the question is what we can see in that time for the Europe leg – as per my previous comments we don’t need to see everything in every location. And would sort of like to see more than one country over there. Then I started thinking maybe we’re better off just doing all of the UK and scrap Europe. Argh – as you can see, lots of thoughts but not lots of answers. ;-) As for what we’d like to see - my wife has her heart set on taking the kids to Disneyland in Paris. And she is keen on ‘kid-friendly’ stuff. However we did a bit of travel when I was a kid (in a caravan) and always just went to landmarks and looked at scenery. Never really did any specifically kid-friendly stuff and I didn’t have a problem with that at all. So to me, yes, some kid stuff is handy but should certainly not be the majority of things. After-all I want the kids to be amazed by the world around them and to learn some of the related history. The 2 things on my bucket list were to see some super high mountains (Pyrenees, French or Swiss Alps) and to see the Millau Viaduct. Obviously these weren’t on my original tour itinerary since I felt they were too far out of the way, so I won’t be heart-broken if I don’t make it, but it sure would be nice. Aside from that I enjoy seeing the scenery plus some good architecture and magnificent structures but am not a real people person so crowds do not excite me. Anyway, you have all the back-ground info. Now over to you guys. (Sorry, I hope you didn’t mind my short essay). I am most willing to receive comments on any aspect of this trip, but I do have a few specific questions: - If you had 9 days in Europe and might not get back there for 20 years, what is the absolutely must see stuff that you’d do in this time? Or do we forget mainland Europe altogether? - Has anyone run the sums on the costs for a motorhome vs a hire car plus staying in B&B’s? Also keeping in mind other costs – e.g. if we stay in B&B’s we’re more likely to be eating out for lunch and dinner as opposed to a motorhome where we could carry food purchased from a supermarket. - Is it possible to get a one-way motorhome hire between Calais (or similar in France) and Frankfurt (or the reverse of course)? I am looking to finalise at least a beginning and ending to the trip so I can get flights booked. Then I can sort out the details for the stuff in between over the next few months. Definitely need a framework though so I can work out whether it’s a motorhome (which means no extra accommodation to find in Europe) or a car that we hire (which means the planning needs to be more precise). Let me have it!... |
Hi
Good background ! Clear. First I am not familiar at all with motor homes. I did plenty if it when I was a kid and vowed never again. But I don't think it is a good idea to rent one in a country and leave it in another (drop off fees esp if you have a right driven one in a left driving country) Second Google is for me not good for travel times. Check on Michelin. Add some time because a motor home is slow and you are not used to it. Then factor in that you are not in the bush. Our roads are crammed and not really straight. Lots of people claim - afterwards - that driving in Europe is another matter. I find your first UK leg ok and I think your wife is right. Do something the kids will like. Anyway a wife is always right so best to please her. Thus I would do Amsterdam or Bruxelles with some day trips (Brugge) and Paris. Frankfurt holds nothing. However in this configure a motor home is not helpful and a liability in cities. Motor homes are for discovering wilderness. Have a good time. |
<i>My preference for Europe was to hire a Motorhome for the Europe leg which means we aren’t on a schedule to get to a Hotel or B&B every night.</i>
But you are, because you can't park it anywhere to spend the night, you will have to use a campground of some kind or other, which means reservations in July, which will be valid only until a certain hour. I am not speaking from experience in camping in Europe, but I can't imagine that the rules and practices are much different from camping in the States in popular areas. An RV will probably be more expensive than renting a car and staying at a hotel or a B&B. It also is inconvenient for visiting the center of towns as it can't go in underground garages and the overnight is probably outside the town. But whether car or RV, you will pay a hefty cross-border drop-off fee if picking up the vehicle in one country and dropping it off in another. So if you plan to drive, either do multiple rentals or figure out a circular itinerary that allows you to drop off the car in the same country as the pickup. Look at http://en.gites-de-france.com/ for stays mainly outside towns, or this one http://www.france-balades.fr/index_us.html To facilitate your trip you probably should pre-book hotels or B&Bs, at the very least in popular vacation areas and big cities like Paris. We don't always pre-book, but at least in France I can call in the morning for that night's stay because I have no problem communicating in French by telephone, can you? As for distances, unless you plan to stick to the <i>autoroutes</i>, driving is not as fast as in Australia (which I assume is similar to the U.S. in its open road areas). There are speed limits with camera controls, and towns every few miles that slow you down. The short distances take as much time as your long distances in Australia. Even if you rent a car you are not limited to restaurants for lunch. You can buy picnic items. Evenings will be restaurant or bistro meals. But I still think that given the price of the RV rental, the price of fuel, and the camping fees, that a car + overnight accommodations and meals in an establishment will cost less and be more convenient. For car rentals, check out autoeurope.com or kemwel.com. And start comparing prices. |
Good background thanks
1) Don't go somewhere twice so either go to London at the start or at the end but not both 2) Motorhome rent in one country and leave in another.... going to hurt the wallet. 3) Wife and Disney. You do know there are French/Dutch/German kids places just like Disney but with a non-American drivel b@@l@@@t aspect to it? Why not go there. Asterix for example. 4) July is busy time so you need to book stuff. 5) In the area of Champagne/Alsace/Mosel/Rhine there are a whole bunch of family friendly places to stay. I'd book Gites or appartments myself. Cheapest prices are along the Mosel. 6) I'd not touch a RV in Europe. I struggle to even conceive of the such an idea. People do (you'll see the Dutch everywhere). |
Personally, I would cut Wales and add that time to mainland Europe. My kids liked The Netherlands, Southern Germany and Paris a lot, they enjoyed most travel if we stayed in one place for at least 3 or 4 days. With only 8 days, you can't see more than a couple of cities or country areas. Adding the time from Wales opens up things to another city or area. See more by traveling less.
Don't double back to London. Very costly. Nail. Down your itinerary before booking flights. Booking flights first really puts major restraints on your trip. Ditch the motor home idea on such a short trip with short distances. Trains are cheap and go from city center to city center. You sill see much more of the countryside from a train than down the highway in a motor home. Rent a car only for a place like Southern Germany. I would also ditch the B&B idea with kids and get hotel rooms so you have more privacy. You will need to specify family rooms. I would definitely spend 3 or 4 days in Paris, especially for an only trip for awhile. My kids lived Paris, even the museums. Many say because of time and crowds to skip Versailles, but I would not. It is a very short train ride right out of Paris. Walk in the gardens, rent a row boat and pretend your children are Royal for an afternoon. Stay for a light show if one is scheduled. I understand your desire for the kids to experience history, etc. but if you can choose several unique activities for them, it will be memorable for all if you. We found doing things were more memorable than seeing things. We rented a boat on a lake in the Bavarian Alps. We saw King Lugwig's castles and the burning of the castle in Heidelburg. The kids loved all of it. They liked sailing small boats on a little lake in Paris. They enjoyed the Victoria Albert Museum, the tower, meeting Beefeaters, walking Tower Bridge, Westmister and going to a show in London. So did we. Have fun planning. |
Book hotels ahead. With kids, you don't need the headache of not having a firmed up place to sleep. You don't want to spend precious vaction time looking for a place, and in July at the last minute, you will get the worst places at higher prices.
|
Motor homes consume a lot more diesel than a car. More costs.
Width and height restrictions can be found on some roads. Some countries limit the speed you can do in one but not in a car.These can do national speeds dictated by road signs. Means More time driving. Use something like Booking.com and us the app on the phone to reserve the next nights accommodation whilst on the move. It is often stated that that bring a car into a city is not such a good idea. The idea is be even worse with a motorhome. I agree with the fact there are many other adventure parks which are not American themed. Disneyland should be saved for the USA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...arks_in_Europe Maybe do some searching on here. PS you can sleep overnight in some locations for less than a pitch for a motorhome with a hook up. |
Motorhomes do use more diesel than a car, but ours manages 11km to the litre, and we do not stick to 90km/h. You have to have one under 3500kg to be able to drive it on a normal car licence, and there is not restriction on speed for those. Some will be high and wide, but most are not, and can get to most places cars can get.
You can stay at special camper stops, or at campsites. Campsites will be expensive in the summer, but you shouldn't need to book, most have some touring paces for short stays, or even special motorhome stops. Some stops are free. That said you have to have a self supporting camper and make use of duping facilities when available if you do not intend to use campsites. The Tour de France should have little impact on your trip. Have a look at www.campercontact.com for an idea of what camper stops are available and the prices. For such a short period of time, and wanting to see mainly cities, I would not bother with a camper. As others have pointed out you would need to return to it's hire station, forcing a round trip, and city centre camper stops fill up fast. Also for Germany you would need it to have at the very least a green Umweltplakette to get into some cities, and I am not sure a rental from another country would have one. |
Hello , utedog. We are Australian and I can tell you that driving in France, or the UK , for that matter, is not like driving in Australia. At home we regularly drive 1000 kms in a day, but would never consider doing that here. If you want to travel long distances, the Autoroutes are your answer. But you will see more if you are on the smaller roads, and these are slower. You can quite easily take a couple of hours to travel 100kms.
I agree with the others. For such a short time, hire a car. And for eight days, and I know you do not want to hear this, pick one country and make it worthwhile. And I also agree about booking accommodation. With such a short time, you do not want to spend a lot of time looking for accommodation, especially with children. We self cater which is the most affordable way for us to travel. We are on France at the moment and in the Pyrenees. Some hotel chains eg Accor have family suites and apartments with kitchenettes I think. Good luck with your planning. |
Thanks all for the comments. I’ll answer as I read them.
@WoinParis, I’d be looking at r-h drive vehicle for r-h drive countries, but yeah I have heard the one-way fees for vehicle drop-off are very expensive. I find Google pretty good over here but obviously traffic makes a huge difference so it may be less reliable in Europe. I’ve not tried Michelin before so will give it a whirl. Totally get your point about the narrow roads, etc, etc though. Yes – the wife is always right. ;-) Frankfurt is purely for the flight out. @Michael, That’s not actually what I had read about camping/motorhoming in Europe (particularly France anyway). I’d read that it was quite easy to find ‘wild camping’ spots to stop. But that blog was a few years old from memory. I’m sure someone will clear that up for me. Thanks for the 2 website – shall certainly check them out. Yeah – we will certainly be pre-booking if we go the hotel/b&b route. No – I definitely can’t speak French! Thanks, have already started comparing prices on several sites for car rentals. @bilboburgler, Yes, it’s sounding like the trip through to Frankfurt might be off the cards due to the one-way fees. No, to be honest I am not aware of the other kids places in Europe. I used to read Asterix books 25 years ago though so that would be fine by me! What else is there? @Sassafrass, Wales will have to remain. That’s my ancestry so is a must from my point of view. As for doubling back to London for the return flight I was considering that since flights out of anywhere but Frankfurt or London were a lot more expensive. A lot less choice of carriers for us to get back to Aust (for reasonable money anyway). I will have to compare the figures exactly. Thanks for all the other comments. Noted. Would certainly be booking hotels ahead of time. @ribeirasacra, thanks for the list. Or maybe I should say no thanks – now the wife will want to go to every one of them!... @hetismij2, great to hear from someone who uses a motorhome! Thanks. That fuel economy is fine by me since I can’t get that out of my SUV anyway (not diesel). I am more than happy seeing plenty of country-side – doesn’t have to be all cities. @rhon, G’day. Absolutely – that is fine by me. I will be quite happy cruising along taking a couple of hours to do 100km. Even if I do the whole trip through to Frankfurt we’re still not averaging more than a couple hours driving per day (and really I was thinking of spending the whole time going from France through to Amsterdam, then shoot over to somewhere near Frankfurt on one night). But yes, I realise a round trip around perhaps some of France and Belgium may be preferable to a long trip through to Frankfurt. Hmm, all food for thought… |
If you're looking for things to do with the kids, Disneyland is of course a fine idea, but there are other amusement parks that are definitely worth checking out, particularly if you are already familiar with the Disney attractions in the U.S. While Disneyland Paris (both the Magic Kingdom and the Disney Studios park) has a certain continental charm, just about all of the attractions also exist in the American parks and also some people are disappointed that it is smaller than the American parks.
So if you want something more original that will not just look like a rerun of what you have already seen, here are some other ideas: Futuroscope https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmxPpAns1ww Puy du Fou https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgOYMTWjF8w Parc Astérix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WljoOBDHLqg Vulcania http://www.vulcania.com/en/ |
You need to realize that any type of cross-border (and there are still borders in Europe even though the majority of them are open) car hire (rental) will incur a tremendous drop charge that will likely be equivalent to 3-4 nights' stay in a B&B.
Considering that you mainly want to see cities, all this car travel is a waste - go by train and have a walkabout in each. Your concession that "I’m sure you could spend much more" time in London is generous, but the fact is you have two hobbits and London is catnip for them. As the wife has effectively indicated (being "keen" on kids' activities), the trip is for them too. |
PS - how are you bamboozled? No one here is trying to trick you.
|
@kerouac, I've never been to the US so have no idea what Disney is like as I've not seen it before. I will certainly check out the parks you mentioned.
@BigRuss, yes if the drop charge is that much I won't do it that way. I'll find a way to do a circuit and return to same place. I don't recall saying anything about wanting to mainly see cities. If I did I mis-spoke. That is certainly not the case at all. I am very keen to see the countryside and everything between the cities. I personally prefer the country to the city, but would like to see both. The word bamboozled was used in my title which was posted before anyone had replied to the post of course, so I am not at all saying that someone is trying to trick me. |
|
Thanks Michael - yeah, that's the one place I was able to get an accurate price but they do not do one-way rental. I was trying to find out what a one-way rental was worth. However everyone here seems pretty adamant that the drop fee for that (if I can find it) will be extremely expensive). Everyone also seems pretty sure that a motorhome won't be the most cost-effective way to see things. So at this stage I am thinking perhaps a bit of a circuit around northern France and some of Belgium.
I am wondering about doing the reverse of the original plan - perhaps fly into Paris then depart Heathrow. Is there usually much of a drop fee to hire a car in Paris and drop @ Calais? Or is it more cost effective to drop car back in Paris and catch train from there right through to UK (Folkestone)? I was thinking about this reverse itinerary since a few sites I was just looking at have their summer period for Europe from the start of July. Doing Europe first we could miss that... |
Given you are not American, which seems to be the assumption, I would not presume that Parc Asterix was superior just because it is French, to Disneyland. Especially if your wife has her heart set on taking the kids to Disneyland. Do they even know that character and like it?
It's not as easy to get to as Disneyland for one thing, no RER stop, and it caters mainly to French speakers. Meaning all the shows are in French and some staff people don't speak English. It is cheaper than Disneyland, though, of course, so it will help your budget. It has lots of water rides, which I don't think Disney does (ie you get wet). As for drop fees, I've never had a drop fee when renting a car in France, that isn't that great a distance, even. I think some American rental company charges one, not sure, just compare company rates as there shouldn't be one with all companies. However, I would think it would be easier just to take the train from Paris to the UK. |
One way car rentals with autoeurope.com (that's the broker) are generally without fee within the same country. This may depend on the actual rental agency. Europcar (one of their provider) does not charge a fee, but often has a pick up fee if the car is picked up at an airport or train station. My experience with Hertz (another of their provider) is that it often has a one-way fee which is higher than the Europcar airport fee. Best would be to act as if you are renting a car through Autoeurope or Kemwel, print out the contract which will indicate all the extra fees (road tax, pollution tax if it applies, etc.) and compare the choices that you have. You can always cancel the contract with no penalty up to two days before it takes effect.
I believe that Australian Visa card will carry the CDW. If that is the case, you could choose the "basic" rate offered by Autoeurope or Kemwel, as long as you are willing to live with paying for repairs in case of accident and then filing for reimbursement with your credit card company. That's what I do whenever possible, and my credit card coverage has no deductible in case of damage. Check with your credit card. |
One comment re Disney versus Asterix.. I have only been to Disney.. but one reason I chose it is because my daughter was younger and was not a huge thrill ride fan.. she likes rides.. but not super roller coaster types.. and so I had heard Asterix is more geared to slightly older kids because there are way more thrill rides there than in Disneyland..
Secondly.. part of the fun of any theme part is the theme.. your kids don't know Asterix.. you do.. but your kids likely know Disney.. put the kids first. they are the perfect age for Disneyland.. your youngest is the perfect fantasy age.. I do not think you will find , finding free camping( wild) half as easy as you think.. Europe has very little wild.. but there are rest stops off the major highways that allow some overnights.. not very fun though I would think.. Plus.. you don't see as much countryside on them as you do on national roads. Also.. besides gas remember there are tolls.. Cars useless in many cities. |
@Christina. Thank for the comments. Much appreciated. Yes, there did seem to be that assumption. All good though. I suspect the wife will be the one to make the decision on which amusement park we head to. I suspect she'll choose Disney, but it's handy to have options.
@Michael. Thanks. Yeah I think my Visa will handle the CDW (have to check) but I have Travel Insurance which will cover that also (amongst other things) so not concerned about that. @justineparis. Thanks for that. Good advice around the theme parks. I think we will shelve the motorhome idea. Have jumped on airbnb and found some stuff that would suit us fine, so I think between that and the sites Michael linked to earlier I will find adequate accommodation. I think I am making progress with solidifying a better plan of attack. Thanks all. Keep the suggestions coming! |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:45 AM. |