Avis and a car with no brake!
 

Last time we rented a car in Lisbon, we found (on some steep roads and mountains) there was no parking brake--it was embedded in the motor and engaged when you turned off the engine.!!! Well, that may be find for the autoban or highway, but not for the 'billy goat' hills where you may have to stop to let a car pass, then begin again on a very steep incline...just be sure to check this, if you are going out to the hinterland. We learned the hard way.

Yeah, you need to be able to drive stick shift. :D

Thanks for the warning, C.

>...hills where you may have to stop to let a car pass, then begin again on a very steep incline..

Can you not turn off the engine and start over?

((I))

I am pretty sure there is a parking brake. Several of the Renaults I've rented have electronic parking brake which you just press a button in the dash for. Press an adjacent button (usually), and it'll release. Or if you are holding the car on a hill, releasing the clutch pedal will also release it, so it's a very nice feature.

Getting off-topic, but some drivers from outside the US may also think cars here have no parking brakes. Here, many cars have the parking brake as a foot pedal on the left side, rather than a handle in the middle of the console. That can throw people off too!

>Here, many cars have the parking brake as a foot pedal on the left side, rather than a handle in the middle of the console.

Ouch - that's where cars with manual gear switch have the gear coupling! It can throw you all right - off the road at least.

Thanks for warning! Do you know which cars have this system?

The only car's I've seen with a foot pedal/parking brake have been automatic transmission. Common on a lot of models, but not universal. Many automatics have a hand brake in the middle.

Every stick shift I've driven has had a hand brake next to the driver.

I think it would be a very poor design indeed if parking brake were a 4th pedal, even if it is off to the side.

>I think it would be a very poor design indeed if parking brake were a 4th pedal, even if it is off to the side.

Of course, but what I meant was - if you are accustomed to manual and put your foot on parking brake while driving, by simply an ingrained reflex - I don't want to ever risk it.

All the foot pedal parking brakes I've seen have been far off to the left against the wall, and higher up and closer to the driver than gas/brake/clutch. They are not in the position where feet normally rest during driving.

I suppose it's possible to mistake for a clutch, but I do believe learning to drive an automatic is a simpler change than driving a manual for the 1st time.

It may not be a rental, but I've definitely come upon a US-branded manual car with the foot pedal on the left for parking brake. It's likely a Chrysler K-car or something like the Dodge Shadow/Plymouth Sundance.

We always rent a car with manual transmission; this one was a Renault, I think. Didn't notice that there was no hand brake until we were on steep hills, trying to shift all the way down, while nearly stopping to let another car pass on a steep hill. the other thing to look for is a place to leave the luggage out of view, either a trunk or a flap that conceals what is in the 'boot'...crooks who see luggage are that much more tempted...we know now what we didn't know then...we are going back to Portugal in the fall, back to the Pinhuo mountains, and this time we will be prepared.

altimiro: It would be pretty much impossible to press the parking brake pedal by accident. It is too far away from the other pedals and in an entirely different plane.

I'm not sure if I've ever seen one in a stick shift car but it wouldn't surprise me. And it wouldn't be a concern.

clarasong - There IS an electric parking brake on your Renault rental. Go back next time and check it out.

Even so, I want a hand brake...so you can put it on and hold you on a hill, while you are down shifting. Very disconcerting to be 'rolling' backward when there is nothing between you and the side of a steep cliff. And I got one foot on the accelerator, one on the clutch, so which one do I put on the electric brake....nope, gonna insist on an old fashioned brake handle in the middle of the car.

you put your index finger on the the electric parking brake

Renault has those push button starter, push button emergency brake rentals going. I rented the Scenic, its a nice little diesel. For hills, I would say the main foot brake and gear use is adequate no matter what the hill. However my first car was astick and I could see an US automatic car driver getting worried over it.

clarasong - the electronic brake really isn't that hard. Maybe they just didn't take time to explain all the controls before you drove off from the rental agency - did you not notice the controls even once before you got up in the hills?

I guess you like what you are used to; I can easily drive a 'stick' and prefer it in Europe. However, I never trust French cars...sorry, that's just a predjudice of mine....when we go next fall, I am going to be 'choosey" and Mr. Avis is going to hear from me...we spend a lot of money on their cars...going to rent one next week and one in early June, etc....

First, the electric parking brake the Renault has the auto-release feature. When starting the car from in incline, you don't even need to press the button to release the brakes. It's really a nice feature.

Second, the electric parking brakes are also on some Audi models. And of course, Audis are not French.

I don't see a downside to it, unless you're a rally car driver or a stunt driver who needs to use the parking brake to lock up the rear wheels and "flick" the car around with a pendulum turn.

Also VW Passat has an electronic handbrake on the dashboard, I don't know about the other VWs.

Geordie

this is a timely post, my husband and I are renting a car this Wed.with Avis at Madrid airport through Autoeurope. I expect it will be a Renault manual.

I'll make sure I look for the parking brake when I get into the car. Ron will be looking for the usual, any outside damage to the car, how the lights and wipers work. I don't think the parking brake has ever been an issue for us, but I'll be checking on it this time. We'll be taveling in and out of the Pyrenees for two weeks so I'm sure we'll be using the brake often.

thanks for the warning,
Deborah

rkkwan: funny you should mention the Audi...I had a lovely A6 for awhile and was totally in love with it, drove like a dream, fine finish in and out, sound system was awesome, etc. , but I had nothing but trouble with it, expensive trouble, and all before I had even got to 40,000 miles. Finally, when the water hose broke, I traded it in for a Japanese make, which runs like a top, very reliable.

My opinion is that some of the high end (Audi, BMW, Rover,) European cars, while being good while they are good, are really bad when they go bad. Just my experience.

Some of the mountain roads around the Douro Valley in Portugal are incredible for their steepness, lack of guard rails, lack of 'turn around' options, etc., and if you meet a car coming down while going up, one of you must yield by backing down the mountain. (I was born in the mountains of the West, but never really saw any like this). It's no time to try to get familiar with the attributes of a hidden parking brake that may or may not engage when you need it. (Wasn't it Grace Kelly who went off into the mts. below when she failed to negotiate a turn on the steep slopes of sounthern France.?)

Anyway, I sure miss my Acura when I am driving in Europe...wonder what the price of "petrol" is there....anyone care to venture a guess?????

Well, driving an unfamiliar rental is always a problem. But I think at the least this thread would be helpful for those who rent car in Europe. Figure out the parking brakes, where is Reverse and how to get into it, etc, before starting on your drive.

Operating systems vary! That said, I now spend 15 minutes in the rental yard learning how to operate our rental. When possible we get an extra key. I have also had duplicate keys made. I like to check the driving lamps and windshield washers. I always ascertain where the fuel filler nozzle is. Sometimes it pays to do a survey of the car for nicks and such. We have learned to drop luggage at the gate and then return the car!

Extra key?

The Renaults I've got with the automatic parking brake also use a card which you put in a slot to start the car, not a traditional key. :D

Common, quick, what other kind of cars can we find in Lisbon besides a Renault? I'll cancel the trip before I'll drive another piece of junk like we had before.??? What are the best cars in Europe??

clarasong: You'll really have to get over this. Even IF you book a different type of car, it does not mean you will get that type of car. The rental agencies will say &quot;Fiat Punto <i>or similar</i>&quot; or &quot;Volkswagen Golf or similar&quot;.

They do not promise you a specific car.

I don't really get the problem:
The electronic handbrake is a safety and a convenience feature.
Besides the auto-lock function when you turn off the engine, it has been developed to help drivers to start the car on an incline.

When you have to stop on an incline, push the button, and then forget about the brake. It has an auto-release function as rkkwan described. The sensors will disengage the brake by the level of traction and foreward movement of the car. If the car starts to roll back, the brake will engage again automatically to stop it in an instant.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
parking brake pedal...I'm not sure if I've ever seen one in a stick shift car but it wouldn't surprise me. And it wouldn't be a concern.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;

i WOULD be surprised. at least here in the uk, people are taught to actively use the HAND brake on hills. you may not pass your road test if you don't. considering how actively used this brake is in manual transmission cars, it is not a good idea to mess with the design.

RTFM !

or LLFM if it's a french car

Back to the issue of American cars with manual and the parking brake pedal... Of course, it's an issue and a safety hazard. But yes, I've seen it, like I said, on a late 80's car, most likely a K-Car or Sundance/Shadow.

It's not an issue now, as most American cars don't even offer manual transmission, and fewer and fewer cars use the bench seats.

The issue arises when you have bench seats and manual. The way to do it is to have the parking brake as a pull-push handle coming out from under the dash. Not as a pedal for the left foot.

&gt;LLFM
I think the word pu*ain should be inserted :D. The result being LLPM.

My '57 GMC pick-up is a manual with a parking brake peddle :)

Actually, come to think of it, our Chevy S-10 Blazer was like that too.

I never mistook the brake for the clutch though.

well, if you are going to say LLPM, wouldn't you say LLP <i>de</i> M?

Renaults are great. I've had them for years.

Clarasong - why can't you just admit you were wrong and there wasn't actually anything wrong with your car? It had a brake. A brake that works. Why make silly cmments like not wanting a brake that may or may not work. You just didn't know how to use it. OK, you'd prefer a hand-lver type brake. That'a fine. It doesn't make other designs of cars 'a piece of shit'. Why slag off an entire manufacturer because you didn't find out how to drive the car you hired?

We all make mistakes. It's the continuing to bluster that makes you look a bit silly.

nona dear: when you are on a very steep hill, and must pull over and stop to let someone coming the other way to pass (only room for one car), then you want to know that when you put the gear in low (first) and slip the clutch, that it won't roll backwards over the steep incline...a hand brake is so much more reasuring than something that is 'supposed' to engage. I, for one, don't intend to trust it.

Yes the cars we rent are all manual shift, and I am very comfortable with them, prefer them actually, and yes, we are taught (as in England) to use the parking brake for added safety...so I will not accept, in future, a car that has any thing other than this. End of story.

&quot;<i> . . . . that it won't roll backwards over the steep incline...a hand brake is so much more reasuring than something that is 'supposed' to engage.</i>&quot;

Just because you are reassured by having a hand brake - that does not make it a more secure brake.

nona dear: RX: just take one aspirin, (maybe with a shot of gin) and call me in the morning.

And there'll be no charge.

Me? Why?

Clara dear: Maybe you should get some glasses and then you'd be able to find the brake button in your car?