<< Pre-Schengen days, Americans, Australians and Japanese etc could stay in each European country (or a cluster of them like Benelux and Nordic) for 3 months, so could virtually stay in Europe indefinitely, but this is no longer the case. >>

It's still the case. Plenty of European countries outside of Schengen each with their own rules for visitors. All Schengen does is make it more difficult for visitors to remain in Schengen for long periods of time

Wow you guys really know your stuff. Where do you get this info from? I have searched and searched and couldn't find such in depth analysis.
I am not really a tourist, I'm not studying, working or wanting to live in any of the EU countries or Schengen countries, I am to play golf events, professionally, therefore earning prizemoney (which is different to WORKING and earning a SALARY or WAGE) and therefore I pay tax on m winnings to the government of each country i play in. So the governments should want me there as they're making money out of me! Do you think this would allow me any leniency with regard to the 90 day maximum period?

And this Schengen thing only came in in 2004 correct? That is probably why most of my friends who are doing the same thing as me have no idea about it, they just all assume what I assumed before I came over here, that we could have 90 days in any of the countries, leave for 2 days then get another 90 days. So clearly we all need to get the right visas for what we do before we come back next year?

Dear M,

Please stop thinking and listen:

You may stay in any or all of the Schengen countries for 90 days in any one 6-month period.

You may go in and out, back and forth, up and down, front to back, left to right, East to West, North to South, but you are allowed only 90 days.

You estimate that you have spent 54 days in the Schengen Zone (SZ)in the last 80 days.

You are allowed to stay in the SZ for another 36 days out of the next 100.

At the end of that 100 days, the clock starts again and you will be allowed to stay for another 90 days in the next 6 months.

That is the rule. Whatever your own particular thoughts on the matter might be, they are irrelevant.

Is there any part of the above that is unclear to you?

((I))

Can you get some sort of special extended visa as you are an internationally travelling professional sports person? Your sporting agents really should have sorted everything out or explained what you need to do before you left Australia.

Schengan has been around for a number of years.

If your playing professional golf then you are working and that is another kettle of fish.

I think you really need to contact your own PGA and find out from them how other professionals from Australia handle this situation, otherwise you could find yourself in a lot of hot water.

<< pay tax on m winnings to the government of each country i play in>>

How does that work, if countries take the tax off you at the time of winning then why do most European golfers live in low tax countries i.e Monaco, Jersey to avoid paying tax. Also what rate income tax do they calculate.

Geordie

In each country the tax to be paid from winnings by a non-resident ranges between 25% and 35%. It is "prizemoney", not WORK. It is the same as if I went to America. This is what msny professional sports people do, including Vijay Singh before he bought a house in America, and many other international sports people in many other different sports, such as tennis. It's like a one-off payment, if I play one tournament then I get taxed at whatever the rate is, say %30, and then I can claim some back because of expenses. Again, it is NOT working, it is different to WORKING simply because I am earning prizemoney, not a salary/wage.
So Schengen has been around for years you say. Then all my Australian colleagues have been travelling Europe illegally, and never been caught. Gee they must be lucky. I thought the Schengen agreement took place in 2004?

>Then all my Australian colleagues have been travelling Europe illegally, and never been caught. Gee they must be lucky. <

That is quite possible.

>I thought the Schengen agreement took place in 2004?<

Well, you are wrong.

Is there a perticular reason why you are being so obstinate about this matter?

((I))

No there is no reason why I am being obstinate. I am just a very meticulous person, I like to sqeeuze as much information as I can out of a subject, research every corner of it in the hope that I may find some kind of loophole. But clearly the only way I will get to play the events I want to play until the end of September is to hope the immigration people got up on the right side of the bed, smile and wave me through into their country so their government can benefit from the dollars I spend on accommodation flights and taxes :)

Speaking of squeezing as much info as I can out of a subject, does anyone know how I can calculate how many days I have been in non-schegen countries? For example, if I was in Spain one day, flew to Milan and drive across the border to Switzerland, does that day count as a day in a non-schengen country? Or do I have to count from the NEXT day, from the day I woke up in my bed IN a non-schengen country?

They did not even check my passport when I crossed the border from Italy to Switzerland so would I need witnesses to be able to prove I was in Switzerland for a week? I have no stamp and my passport was not scanned by the computer as I flew into Italy not Switzerland. I have plenty of witnesses if I need them and if that's how it works if I need to prove I was there.

Use your passport to calculate. Your day of arrival is 1 (no matter how late) and your departure day is the last day (no matter how early).

If you have not been stamped, it will be hard to prove you have left the Schengen Zone, which could cause problems.

Also, it is extremely possible that your friends are traveling and have simply avoided being caught. However, you are leaving a paper trail of yourself in every country by way of your prize money, so you are on record and in the system, which means that you are subject to a little more scrutiny (which is, I know, ironic, seeing as you are essentially paying and random travelers often are not).

You shouldn't need to worry to much about how many days exactly you have spent in Schengen area, as no count is kept by any country or agency. The scanning of passport that may take place as you first enter Schengen is to comply with external border checks, which are against Schengen Information System (SIS) database, which flafs up anyone wanted by the police in any member country and others for various reasons should not be allowed into Schengen (usually those who are on immigration blacklist through previous convictions and deportations and those whose entry may threaten national security, e.g. terrorist suspects). The database simply 'passes' or 'fails' a passenger - no reasons are given, and the authorities will need to consult other databases such as Europol, not usually available at the point of entry, for details and to decide what actions to take. So while your entry into Schengen at Amsterdam, for example, may be recorded on Dutch immigration record, your subsequent departure, say, from Rome will not be matched to the Dutch record to determine your length of stay. There is eminently a good reason for having the 90-in-180 days rule: even though nobody is actually checking upon on you, should you come to the attention of the authorities, the onus is on you to show you have not overstayed in Schengen. And coming to the notice of the authorities neeed not involve any illegal activities - it could be involvement in an accident or becoming a victim of crime - they can open their case against you at any time and in any place, not only when you cross international borders

During the next few weeks I will travel to both Schengen and non-Schengen countries. For example I will go to the UK (non-Schengen) for a week, then I'll be in Spain (Schengen) for a week, and then back into the UK for 2 weeks, then Scandinavia for about 3 weeks, then Austria for a week and then I go home.

I just worked out how many days in the Schengen zone that I have been so far (56 so far) and by the time I want to leave to go back home to Australia I will have spent 97 days (in multiple trips) in Schengen countries. So I would overstay my allowance by 7 days. I guess in theory I could avoid this overstay by spending those 7 days in the UK or Switzerland when I actually don't have a tournament, which would make sense. Does anyone see a problem with this? To me it is cut and dried. I will have stayed in the Schengen zone for less than 90 days within a six month period, and I will not have stayed in any country for more than 90 days at a time. Have I finally found my solution???? Oh my goodness could it be???

Very good, M.

You get a silver star.

((I))

Just to point out that our colonial friend isn't TRAVELLING in Europe, he's working. Therefore he doesn't get the Schengen visa exemption as he isn't a tourist but MUST follow the rules of each country he WORKS in. This may mean anythign from nothing to be done or he has to get a visa.

Here's an example for Sweden where you HAVE to get a visa

http://www.migrationsverket.se/engli...eatidrott.html

Just to clarify, who is "our colonial friend?"

you . . .

my girlfriend is right at 90 days...could be 91

she was within schenger from february 16 and left the 20th...came back on april 28 and left on may 1st, and also came back on may 26 and left again on the 17th of august...so depending on the counting method, we'll see.

how do they track this? what they scan the passport through is a terror list or a wanted list with europol, am i correct in assuming that ultimately it is at the discretion of the officer? we filed paperwork but never received a stamp and a sudden death in the family kept us from being able to go to the appointment.

so next week she will attempt to enter holland again, she has copies of the paperwork we filed with her just in case.

any predictions on her fate?

Without doing the maths, runrickyrun's girlfriend seems to have been in Schengen for 90 days, but a new 180 dsay period seems to about to start for her.

She'll probably walk through immigration with no hassle, though some officers might ask a couple of questions about what she's doing in Europe. Otherwise, as long as nothing suspicious pops up on the screen when she lands, she'll just sail through.

I must say, I admire your optimism that because you will be playing professional golf, (or tennis, or whatever) you will be earning prizemoney.

Immigration officials aren't concerned with how the relevant tax department will treat any winnings. They are concerned with whether you will constitute a potential problem to the public purse. As I'm sure you know,the vast majority of professionals on tour don't earn a cent, or if they do, it is not enough to cover their expenses. In fact, some of them are in the hole (no pun intended) and require sponsors/parents/whoever to pick up the bills. Immigration officials are well aware of this, so if you mention your occupation, best to be prepared for a lot of questions.

That said, if you are playing professionally on tour, the relevant professional athletic association should be able to dispense advice as to just how the host countries will consider your immmigration status, and what to do.