ATM card withdrawal in France
 

I will be traveling to France in August and was wondering which bank branch is the best to open an account with to make withdrawals while i'm there. I want to open an account with Washington Mutual but I would like the best rates since i'm on a budget. Any input would be appreciated.

BankofAmerica has a partnership with BNP banks which are everwhere in Paris. If you do a withdrawal from one of their ATMs there will be no fee and a good rate. Like most banks, it may now be using Visa services for their foreign ATM transactions so there MAY be a 1% built into the exhange rate. Despite what people will tell you, more and more banks are beginning to do this. But still 1% on a good exhange rate is hardly a major issue.

I meant BNP is everywhere in France, not just in Paris.

I have a local bank and just recently opened a 2nd acct at my credit union. I'd always been happy w/ my bank - it charges $1.50 per foreign withdrawal. But just got my statement from a late March trip to Paris and was amazed to see that the credit union didn't charged anything - no withdrawal fee and no added 1% conversion fee.

So I would chek at local credit unions where you might qualify . . . .

That's good to know about BNP.

BNP Paribas is one of the world's largest banks.

One word of caution - many ATMs in europe don't give you the choice of where the withdrawal comes from - savings or checking. We found the default to be checking. So, just to be on the safe side, make sure you have enough $$ in both accounts to cover your trip.

We have BofA and used the BNP banks. BofA did not charge us the $5 fee or the conversion fee that they charge when using other banks.

I don't recall having an option for withdrawing from a savings or checking either. The money we withdrew came from our checking.

I don't remember seeing a choice of where to withdraw the money. It came from the checking account (B of A).

I have not heard of in recent years of any importance in what bank is used to make withdrawals. The relationship between banks with regard to withdrawals is based on the Cirrus and/or Plus systems among others and if you look at the plaques that line up by the ATM machines you'll find that most all banks belong to every system that exists.I haven't run across an exception.

As far as rates are concerned the exchange is based on interbank rates ie the lowest available. The only difference is your home bank which decides what to charge you if anything and it is most always nominal. If there is concern about this then one should consolidate withdrawals.

Bigal, with all due respect no one is disagreeing with you, but some of us were giving tips on the easiest way to avoid those charges from your home bank all together! Why pay any fee to your home bank if you can select a home bank (since driver is looking for a new one anyway) that has partner banks you can use and you won't be charged at all?

If you are only going to be overseas for a few weeks, with the likelihood of making no more than five foreign ATM transactions in a year, the fee for those transactions might not be the most important consideration in selecting a bank -- how about free checking, convenient banking hours, web access?? Those are more important to me than the $15 I might spend in ATM fees every year or two (but all other things being equal, I'd choose the bank with low/no foreign ATM fee)

I will be going for about 10 months so it would make a difference over time. and thank you for everyones input it really helped. I was thinking of Washington Mutual because they have, or so i've heard the best free checking.

Driver 24, following are the web addresses of 6 internet banks. This is a rapidly evolving industry and there are others.

With most you can have a checking account (with an ATM card) paired with a savings account, currently paying about 4%. Most also offer a CC. With others the savings account is tied to an external checking account. ING is currently like this but will roll-out a checking account this summer.

If you averaged $4000 in your account for a year at 4%, you would earn $160 in interest. Even if the CC had the 2% fee, you could spend $3200 and break even against a no fee card.

Take a look and I think you will find one or more would work for you.

http://www.bankofinternet.com/

http://www.gmacbank.com/

http://www.emigrant-direct.com/

http://home.ingdirect.com/

http://www.citibank.com/us/b2.htm

http://www.metlifebank.com/index.do

Just in case you didn't find a suitable bank, here's another well known name:

http://www.hsbcdirect.com/1/learn_mo...ode=PPGE400000

The free checking account at Washington Mutual says that it doesn't charge a foreign withdrawl fee. I have a Platinum account with them and do get charged a $3.00 fee for every foreign withdrawl. I intend to open a free checking account with them just to use while in Europe. However, I haven't had time to completely investigate yet.

Diane

Just get from WaMu, based on the type of account you have with them, their fees, if any, for foreign/European ATM withdrawals. If there is no fee and since European ATMs don't charge a fee, stick with WaMu.

The ATM rates are set by the Interbank and are the best you'll get over credit cards, travelers checks even USD. Unless you have hundreds of thousands or millions in your account, you'll be getting the same rate as anyone else on any given day.

I bank with Commerce and there are no foreign ATM fees anywhere.

sandi, funny you should mention Commerce Bank. I bank with Commerce also and asked them this past weekend about their ATM fees/foreign transaction fees. They confirmed what I have known in the past. If you make an ATM transaction/withdrawal in Europe, the bank does not charge any ATM fees, nor do they charge any conversion fees such as the 1% that VISA & M/C charge. Basicially, you get free ATM withdrawal fees and the interbank conversion fee. ((b))

That's pretty amazing. So you're saying that if you go to a Duetschebank in Germany or Italy for example and do a Commerce Bank ATM card withdrawal, even though Deutschebank uses VISA services for doing that transaction and getting their money from the US bank and charges the bank 1%, Commerce bank pays them that without charging you? And they don't just change the currency rate from say 1.21 to 1.22? That really is amazing. Must cost the bank a small fortune if they have a lot of foreign ATM users.

Neopolitan, I think you are missing something here.

No European bank ATM's charge you a transaction fee.

VISA/Mastercard charge a 1% conversion fee for credit card transactions.

I'm not using a VISA/Mastercard ATM Card. I'm using a Commerce Bank ATM card. They convert MY money from MY checking account at the interbank rate.

Why is that so hard to believe? Life is wonderful.

Additionally, my USAA Mastercard give me 1.25% cash back on all transactions. If I use my credit card overseas, I pay a penalty of 1% conversion fee to Mastercard. I'm still ahead by .25%. Life is wonderful. ((b))

Yes it is amazing. Most bank employees arent even aware of it. I had to do my own reseach on the internet to find this 'Alliance". I live in Canada and Scotia BAnk is not my regular bank. BUt I now have a Soctia bank checquing account there and put my vacation money in there when I travel. IT seems to be the same alliance as the Bank of America. I can go to Bank of Maerica , Barcley Bank in Britian. WestPac in Australia and New Zealand and banks in other countries WITHOUT paying ANy charges to use the atm's.

So Even if it isn't your own bnk, it's worth it to open an account with your vacation money.... and use the foreign ATM's for free.

Sorry, you didn't read my post, or else I didn't make it clear. Last year I talked with the bank manager at a large branch of Deutschbank in Rome. He told me that very recently Deutschebank had given the job of transferring funds from foreign ATM withdrawals to VISA services. Previously the bank had done those transfers themselves, but had found it easier to let Visa Services handle it. This has nothing to do with using a credit card. Visa Services is also in the business of general money transfers or currency exchanges -- call them what you will.

As a result of that, he informed me, US customers were now finding that their currency rates were 1% higher than the current XE rates. I was unable to confirm this personally, as my BofA ATM only card without a debit function and without a VISA, or Cirrus symbol (which is just a Visa connection) on it would not work there -- as it had at all other Italian banks I had used it. This was the reason for my conversation with the bank manager, and he apologized for this additional new inconvenience caused in the new way the transfers were being done. He mentioned they had many US regular customers including a lot of university students, and he assured me that since the bank had given their transfer services over to VISA services, those customers were now being charged an extra 1% on their withdrawal. Unlike on a credit card, at that time it was not being shown as a separate line item, but suddenly the customers had discovered their exchange rates were 1% higher than the normal daily rate. This was a charge made by Visa Services to the US bank and then passed on to the customers of that bank. It had nothing to do with a charge from a European bank.

So as VISA services takes over more and more European bank/US bank transfers, you can look to this extra 1% being added in to ATM withdrawals just like credit card charges.

What I was saying before will only apply from some banks. But if you use that Commerce Bank ATM at a Deutschebank ATM, I'm pretty sure that what this guy said is true, VISA services will be charging Commerce Bank 1% in addition to the daily exhange rate. If Commerce Bank does not choose to pass that along to its customers, it is indeed a very charitable institution to absorb it!

I don't know if I'm allowed to quote from a bank site..but...this is what my bank shows on their site...


Global ATM Alliance


People are travelling more than ever before. That's why Scotiabank is proud to be a founding member of the new Global ATM Alliance, along with Bank of America, BNP Paribas, Barclays, Deutsche Bank 24 and Westpac.
Now, it's even easier - and more important, FREE - for you to access your cash through Global Alliance ATMs when you travel to the United States or overseas.

Scotiabank customers can now withdraw cash from participating member ATMs without paying any access fees! That means free access** to your account from over 27,000 cash machines in Australia, France, Germany, The United Kingdom and The United States I'm sure a US bank of AMerica , who is part of this, would also be partnered with the smae other countries.

I just got back and used my BOA ATM card at a Paribus ATM and no fees.

I did get a 3% 'foreign transaction fee' when I used the same card at shops. That fee was only 1% using my credit card.

Kodi, that is so true, but please keep in mind that the word "free" is used to mean no fee. What rate a bank uses to exchange your currency with is quite a different matter. AAA will proudly exclaim that they sell you foreign travlers cheques "FREE" or without fee. That is true, but don't mention the 5 or 6% higher exhange rate than the interbank rate!

Budman, I don't mean to be argumentative, and to be honest I've written posts almost identical to yours, but that was before things changed last summer. I strongly suspect more and more banks will change as time goes on. At least on my most recent trip to the UK, it appeared that such a charge was not yet being levied on my BofA/Barclay's ATM withdrawals. They seemed to be at exactly the posted XE rates I found on the internet.

I do know as a fact that with that change, my BofA ATM only card without a Visa debit connection that had always worked at Italian banks, suddenly would no longer work at Italian branches of Deutschebank. And I believe it was just as that manager said, because of the new powers of Visa services handling the transfers. I came home and turned in my ATM only card for an ATM/DEBIT card to avoid this problem in the future.

Maybe something has changed since, but last year my M/C transactions included the 1% conversion fee, and my Commerce Bank ATM withdrawals gave me the interbank conversion rate. I don't know what Deutschebank does. I was not aware what bank I was using when I withdrew from an ATM, but I paid no fees, transaction fees, ATM fees, or conversion fees.

kodi, you are talking about fees YOUR bank will or will not charge. If I use my ATM card from the States in a European Bank ATM machine, the European Bank will not charge me or my bank a fee. My bank may or may not charge me a fee to withdraw from an ATM if this is an "out of network" bank. My bank does not. Your bank may.

The bottom line is my bank will not charge me any fees or conversion fees when I use a European ATM, nor will the European ATM bank charge me a fee, no matter what alliance bank I use. ((b))

Do you have a car loan? A mortgage? A student loan? Credit card through a local bank? Typically, if you have a checking or savings account at a bank where you have a "relationship", fees are waived for "foreign" ATM withdrawals...

Neopolitan, maybe you should switch from BofA to another bank. :-)

I'm going to Switzerland next month, and I'll give a full report on bank charges, fees, etc. using my M/C and ATM card.

I know this whole matter is complex, considering all the credit cards out there, charges, fee, and coupled with the DCC, I think an informed traveler can decide for himself/herself based upon all the facts what tolerance levels they are willing to expend. ((b))

HUH, Budman? You mean you still missed my point after all that explanation. The point is that if any US bank is being charged 1% for one of its customers using a foreign ATM it is unlikely they will "eat" that charge. You may thing other banks will just absorb that cost, but I sincerely doubt it. Now read carefully -- I didn't say the European bank was charging them, but VISA services hired by the European bank is doing so. BankofAmerica has no control over that, even though Deutschebank is a partner bank!

Meanwhile, I'm very happy with BofA since I haven't paid a single ATM fee in the past couple of trips -- able to find partner banks. That Deutschebank thing is a new "fluke", but in any case I could still do two free ATM withdrawals a month (and my partner could do two more) at non affiliated banks. So again -- we pay no fees. And Barclays and BNP banks were plentiful in Spain, France, and the UK -- my only destinations for the next trip.

Bank of America is definitely a winner. I bank with them and used my card to make one 500 euro withdrawal at a BNP in Paris. All my account info indicated was a $600.51 withdrawal. That's 1.17 exchange rate. No fees.

Do you want to check your math, Belledame?
I get 1.201. I'm not sure when you went, but that is a good rate. Today's XE rate is 1.216, for example.

To humor you, here is my math:

500/600.51 = .8326256

Rounding off that's .833

Reversing that number gives us 1.17, which was the exchange rate in December when I was over there.

Reversing the number? What does that mean?

Divide 600.51 by 500 and you get 1.201

That means you paid $1.201 for each euro.

I just looked up December 16th rates on XE and found that the rate was .8325 which is the same as 1.201, so yes you got the current rate.

I'm not sure what that reverse step is you did, but you're right, it did humor me.

Here's a site where you can look up any currency rates for any date and it will show you how many units to the other unit going either way.

http://www.xe.net/ict/

Well, this has been informative. Good to know there's more to learn.

Thanks so much for the info Neapolitan! Glad you had a good laugh over it.

Patrick,

I believe and understand everything you are saying, but I don't believe my bank (ATM) is passing on the 1% to me, but we shall see next month. ((b))

I may be dense, but I do not understand why someone would want to open an account at Bank of America for the purpose of overseas ATM withdrawals when it means that in order to avoid a large per transaction fee you have to find a partner bank for each withdrawal.

My local bank in Massachusetts does not charge any transaction fee and I can use the card anywhere that has PLUS or Cirrus. The rate from my recent trip to Paris appears to be identical to the rate I got on my credit card, which is the 1% tacked on by VISA.

I understand why, if you are banking with B of A anyway, you would keep the account and follow their procedures, but if you don't have other reasons for using that bank, there are lots of other banks that have much less restrictive options for overseas ATM use.

Budman, please listen carefully now. What are you wondering about the bank passing along to you? As I've said about five times now, that Deutschebank in Italy thing was new -- and as far as I know may still be the only major bank hiring Visa services to do their transactions rather than doing them themselves. So unless you have done an ATM withdrawal at a Deutschebank in Italy there's no specific reason to think that you have yet run into such a charge that your bank would have passed on to you. If you HAVE done an ATM withdrawal at a Deutschebank in Italy in the past year, then I'd suspect they have. Meanwhile I don't even know if that was only by the Italian branches of Deutschebank or by all Deutschebanks even in Germany.

So next month if you are in Italy, it would be very interesting if you did an ATM withdrawal at a Deutschebank and one at another bank to see if there is a difference in rates. Or simply compare the final rate with the XE rate for that day.

Whoooaaa, I missed that post from Nikki which seems to indicate she was charged the same rate as her credit card, meaning an extra 1% added in on her ATM withdrawal. Perhaps another use of Visa Services for doing ATM transfers?

I will be in Germany & Switzerland, and will avoid Deutschebank like the plague. :-)

I'm only going on what my bank has told me. Maybe the 1% is wrapped into the rate prior to it getting to the Stateside bank, but the bank doesn't add anything when it gets there, but we shall see. ((b))

"Maybe the 1% is wrapped into the rate prior to it getting to the Stateside bank"

Yes, that is my impression.
Let's say the current rate is 1.20 and you withdraw 300 euro. My guess of how it works (and this is just a guess now), is that Visa services immediately hands over 300 euro to the European bank you took the money from. They then "bill" your home bank for $363.60. That's 300 euro at 1.20 each plus 1%. Your statement would then show you took out 300 euro for a cost of $363.60. If you divided that out, you'd find you actually paid a rate of 1.212. And sometimes it's hard to tell exactly what the rate should have been at the exact time you did your withdrawal, so it's not easy to know if you got the right rate or a 1% higher rate.

Now let's be technical here. I personally don't think it's all that horrible for a company (in this case a bank) which is in the business of making money to have charged me $3.60 for somehow making the connections and getting me $360 of my own money from several thousand miles away in a split second. Frankly, I think they've earned it. Don't misunderstand me. If there is no charge, that's even better, and we've gotten spoiled in the past by there not being any charge. I'm just saying I don't see anything wrong if the banks or the transfer services do start charging that. I'd like to see how I could make a phone call home and have someone send me $360 of my own money for less than $3.60 total! And to me it's worth that measly amount not to have to be carrying around huge sums for weeks at a time, but to be able to go get whatever I want at the drop of a hat from a machine on the corner anywhere in Europe.