Are Europeans 'inflexible'?
 

One of the things that I like best abut Europeis that they often respect 'tradition' more than we do, having had it longer, I guess. But often it seems that 'inflexibility' gets in the way of common sense. For example, they have very rigid times that cafe's are open, closed, and even if there is a line of people in with money in their hand, they won't open until it is the stated time. We were at a family taverna in Spain once, and we were starved (it was about 2p.m/ Head waiter stated that there was no food other than 'cheese' available until the dining hour, which was much later. They wouldn't even flex enough to make us a sandwich. Needless to say, when we were stuffed with cheese, he finally came to our table an announced that we could order now. Also, at siesta time, absolutely nothing is open, not even a bar that we could find. Just got to 'get with the program'.

I suppose I look at it differently. I actually admire those that refuse to sacrifice quality of life to chase a dollar. Granted "quality of life" means different things to different folks, but for me I can see how life might be sweeter as a restaurant or shop owner if you reserve some time for yourself during the day.

I suggest you try getting into any restaurant in the "non-traditional" US when it is closed.

"Common sense" would have dictated that you EAT before you get "starved" so you don;t have to embarrass yourselves in front of those "foreign" waiters.

I rather like this approach. The store owners have a life too, and its nice to see that the value of a dollar is less valuable than family time. I recall my high school days of working in restaurants where I had to stay late because customers would rudely show up 10 minutes before close; makes me wish the US was more like that.

Tracy

No, I don't think so. They just have different priorities. You could just as easily say that North Americans are inflexible. They have rigid opening hours too - they insist on things always being open. They insist on a society where the customer is never wrong or inconvenienced. Which of course comes at the expense of the work force. Probably that Spanish waiter was on break, possibly enjoying his cigarette or maybe his kids - not inclined to make some randoms tourists a sandwich. Sigh - just different perspectives I think. :D

Cheers,

Murphy

Hi
I've always liked the tradition of closing. It's done in other countries also beside Spain. As we are the visitors to their country, it is us that have to make the adjustments to their way of life. A McDonalds is usually around a city anyway if your feeling hungry. In the U.S., restaurants also have hours when they close. Have you ever tried to get a dinner meal when some places are serving lunches only. 2P.M. is late for lunch in Europe. Just realize that for the future and file it away.

I really appreciate the slower pace, set hours, mid day siestas, market days, Sunday closing, etc. I'd never resent a restaurant for not feeding me outside of their regular hours . . . . . IMHO it is odd to assume they would.

Dear C,

You have just learned that you cannot have whatever you want, whenever you want it.

This lesson might stand you in good stead.

((I))

From Jan 1st 2007 every shop in Bavaria may (or may not) stay open 24h a day, except on Sundays (this is a catholic country). I don't now, if this is progress
?

Have you ever tried asking a McDonalds for real food? A toasted cheese sandwich, for example?

Or telling a "waiter" in an American restaurant that, no, you've absolutely no interest in his name or star sign, you don't want to know the chef's special, you want to be left alone to eat a reasonable meal, you'll decide when you're ready to leave and you assume - since he's chosen to do that job without a gun being pointed at him - he's being paid a living wage and, if he's not, why on earth does he expect you to make up for his inability to negotiate with his employers?

Because I have.

And I'm very clear which side of the Atlantic is the spiritual home of brain-dead inflexibility.

I don't find it inflexible or lacking common sense in the least. I think those traditions are wonderful and more civilized than the 24/7 you often find in the U.S.

Everyone knows ahead of time, you do your shopping so you don't need to go on Saturday evening, all day Sunday, or Monday mornings. Sundays are quiet because there's no yard work or recycling wine bottles allowed (for example).

I'm not sure who you refer to that needs to "get with the program" but I'd say it is the visitor who should adapt not expect a culture to change to accomodate them.

>>And I'm very clear which side of the Atlantic is the spiritual home of brain-dead inflexibility.<<

Another stunning zinger from the embitterd flanner.

Wow! Not only an entire country, but an entire continent branded with a single personality trait. Amazing!

On a more productive note, cindi, your "get with the program" notion is the right one to adopt in places that do things differently than you're used to.

Your premise that greater tradition = inflexibility is flawed.

Consider the inverse. Should visitors from Barcelona be indignant that many restaurants close at 9:30pm when they're used to eating dinner at a much later hour?

Perhaps you have some other examples of what you experienced?

Wow!

I wouldn't have put it quite as indelicately as flanneruk. The fact is that any American waiter who tried to "negotiate" a living wage with his employer would be out the door faster than you could say "Hi, I'm Jason, and I'll be your server tonight".

However, I have to say that I didn't find the US travel and hospitality industry particularly flexible, especially large corporations like airlines. In the corporate sector it seems that years of downsizing, cost-cutting and outsourcing have created a stressed, demoralised and grumpy workforce, with the result that Americans' natural hospitality and friendliness are least to be found in, of all places, the hospitality industry (although they still surivive in many smaller businesses).

Even the chipper Jasons of the world, hustling for tips to eke out their notional "pay", often can muster only a skin-deep cheer which soon evaporates when in their judgement you've occupied a table beyond your allotted time (like, when you've eaten your last bite).

Unfortunately it's difficult to see a reversal of the trend in corporate America (and for that matter my own country) any time soon. Cost-cutting CEO's have already picked all the low-hanging fruit, so you probably ain't seen nothing yet.

We returned from a marvelous April in Paris, and when we landed at JFK, I realized how much I missed the quieter tone of voice the French generally have. It was so relaxing to dine in a restaurant not blasting "music" and competing with people yelling to be heard at nearby tables.
We also enjoyed the European custom of not pushing you at all to leave the table; it's yours until you signal discreetly (no "Garcon!" or, even worse, finger snap) that you'd like the check. No "Are you still working on this?" Since when is putting food in your mouth work?

<<Also, at siesta time, absolutely nothing is open, not even a bar that we could find.>>

You could go take a siesta? Then you'd be ready to eat dinner at an appropriate local time.

I feel like you're really missing the idea here.

Are you asking because you think they should bend over backwards to accommodate visitors?

The way I look at it, I'm a guest in their country and I have to follow their traditions. If I haven't eaten and the restaurant is closed, then I try and find an alternate solution. I remember once in France, we were starving, but didn't realize that bakeries even shut down for 2 hours at lunchtime. We managed to find a store for some snacks to tide us over until later. Problem solved, lesson learned.

They're not inflexible, it's their way of life. Do your research beforehand with regard to business hours and mealtimes and you won't be stuck next time.

Having worked in a restaurant in a mall, and now in a retail shoe store where I am required to work 48 hours a week, I can honestly say that it does not seem like inflexiblity to me. It seems like they may actually have a life.

Something I hope to have again when I find a better job. One that I don't have to work so hard at and one that doesn't requre me to work 13 hour days with no siesta.

You do what you gotta do, and those two jobs have paid for two trips to Europe. I will find a better job at some point. :)