I did not confuse the OP or Neal623 w/ the poster on TA or any lawyer. That never crossed my mind and I don't see how others came to that assumption??

I also don't ascribe any ulterior motives to RMkelly or Neal - I totally understand where they were coming from. And they asked legitimate questions.

My comments were to 1) explain that the post on TA about the "brown water" was totally 100% off base. And 2) to explain the bedding situation which seems to be an honest misunderstanding. Since the OP prominently mentioned the bedding/linens I was merely trying to tell them that that specific complaint is a non-issue. They had typical UK bedding w/ a duvet.

as flanner says - mold is really a fact of life in damp areas. I once stayed in a lovely converted water mill in the Cotswolds. There was a dehumidifier w/ instructions to use it 24/7, yet there was still mold in corners of the lounge. Could not be avoided - after all there was a stream an waterwheel just under the windows/along the stone walls. It never crossed my mind to complain about the mildew - it was minor and the working water wheel was a wonderful added "plus".

There are lots of wonderful, clean looking accommodations all over the UK - but if you look closely in the nooks and crannies, there will be conditions that would not be acceptable in the States. But in most of the States - a 50 year old vacation house is considered very old whereas many holiday rentals in England/scotland are 150, 200 years old or even older.

If one is squeamish about things (not a bad thing - some folks like new some don't mind "character") they should only rent new-builds or be prepared to spend ££££ for top notch properties.

The oldest B&B I have stayed in was built in the 12th century - absolutely stunning and gorgeous. Small closets, tons of nooks and crannies to explore, and loaded with character. Also had a few cracks and come to think of it, a bit of mold (I had forgotten that part). I thought nothing of it as I sort of expected a few things like that. But the character and surroundings were so incredible!

It is so true that 50-100 years in North America can be old. I think that is so hilarious. The oldest building in Saskatchewan is about 150 years old. To me (as I travel to Europe lots) that is very new but to others it is shockingly ancient. Once buildings get to be beyond that stage (at least where I live) they are automatically torn down. Very, very sad. Wish preservation and history was a priority here!

Thanks to all who think that I am ME and not some "shyster lawyer", which, BTW, I don't think he is, since he spoke the truth. I really never thought someone would go so far as to accuse me of being "vindictive and obsess over things" - and of being SOMEONE ELSE!
I mentioned before that I have taken the same pictures as the other party took, with the exception that some of the conditions have deteriorated even more, as is shown in my pictures. Those of you who believe the homeowner's version; bear in mind that he said the pictures were "fraudulent". This is simply not true. As I said, I made sure I got the coat of arms in the picture with the alleged mold (again, I use the word "alleged" on the advice of the family member who is a lawyer) so there would be no doubt where I was.
In response to the thought that I wouldn't have gone to the house after reading the review, let me point out that the first time I asked for information on Fodor's about the house was on 06/07/08. That was because that was the day I was made aware of the entry on TA. All 11 of us left for Scotland on 06/13/08. What were we supposed to do in that short period of time to change the situation?
Again thank you to all who believe that I am really me. Thanks to my two daughters for backing me up. You're terrific, girls.

Odd, I've stayed in London, Scotland, Derby, Harrogate, Cumbria & the Lake District & never had mold in any of my accommodations.

A little bleach takes care of it & if you keep up with the cleaning, it's not a problem.

I don't know how the OP morphed into the poster on TA either since that poster stayed last summer & this poster "recently returned for a 2 week vacation in GB."

I knew what was going to happen as soon as I read the OP. Many responders shoot the messenger...

"If one is squeamish about things (not a bad thing - some folks like new some don't mind "character") they should only rent new-builds or be prepared to spend ££££ for top notch properties."

I don't buy this AT ALL. Also, I don't buy that you have to live with mold if you're in a damp climate. Of course you don't. In fact, British DIY and property shows are full of advice on how to damp proof houses and get rid of mold. If a house has mold, then it's either got a serious structural problem or the owner can't be arsed to fix it. Either way, it shouldn't be rented in that condition. Or at the very least, prospective renters should be told that the property's "character" includes mold and brown drinking water.

Second, why does this "but the building is old, just deal with it" excuse hold sway so strongly in the UK but not elsewhere in Europe. There are many, many INEXPENSIVE hotels and holiday rentals in Germany, for example, that are 300, 400, 500, 600, even 700 years old, yet have not a speck of mold and impeccable plumbing and heating.

And FWIW, where I come from in the U.S., a 50 year old building ain't old. Not even close. The church I was married in was built in 1741. The restaurant where I had lunch a few weeks ago was built in 1750. The local pub has been in constant operation since the mid 1700s (with a short break during Prohibition). The local bookstore (which is NOT part of a chain, unlike the bookstores in Maidenhead) has been in continuous operation since 1745! All are older than the vast majority of buildings in the English town where I live now.

I think the OP's accomodation sounds horrible. Mould and cracked windows aren't acceptable anywhere. I also wouldn't fancy drinking brown water (though I accept colour isn't always an indication of quality).

What I do object to is the suggestion (not necessarily from the OP) that UK/European accomodation is generally always poorer than the US equivalent and that we are all idiots who put up with dire service. Also, re the comments about kitchen appliances - yes the US may have more supersize fridge-freezers, but many of you are still using cookers of a design that went out in the sixties over here, and top loading washing machines (ditto).

My point? Isn't it possible to comment on the specifics of a particular situation (ie the OP's cottage, which admittedly sounds grim) without resorting to idiotic extrapolations about whole continents?

Well, well. If I ever stay in a hotel or other accommodation that has mold, peeling wallpaper, holes in the floor, etc., I CERTAINLY WILL NOT TELL ANYBODY ON FODOR'S!!!

Obviously, the reward for such behavior is to be castigated for not having done enough research, expecting "luxury" for the price paid, being accused of wanting a refund, etc.

How are we to know the sad state of a property if not for the posters who take the time to tell us about it?

Obviously, all such posts are to be taken with a grain of salt, but to go to the extremes I have seen here seem very unfair.

Christina - Before making your scathing opinions public, you should have re-read the entire thread more closely. Boy, did you ever get it wrong. What are you, a conspiracy theorist? Do you also believe Elvis is still alive?

Let's all remember that the Fodor's forum is supposed provide fellow travellers with helpful tips and advice - not purposely lambast them on "facts" that are not even accurate.

Please try to be more kind in the future, or just don't bother responding.

An interesting point, for me, anyway:

On the property's website, there are NO pictures of the interior.

I wonder why.

I opened this thread because of the title, but immediately thought about my Italian friend who had a huge hole, probably at least an 18" circle, in a wall of a B&B in London. Was he picky to be astounded by a giant hole in the wall of his inexpensive B&B?

It was really cheap.

Maybe we should stop swapping opinions on the prevalence and appropriateness of mould in humid climates, the way of washing duvets or comforters and the acceptable number of broken window panes per house, or about the third-worldlyness of British accomodation in general.

All in all, in my opinion, the property rented by the OP is substandard (to say the least). Period.

In my opinion, the OP doesn't try to get a refund and is obviously NOT the person (shyster lawyer or not) having put the report on tripadvisor, but is airing a comment, which in her opinion is legitimate.

Now let us consider whether it is appropriate for the OP to complain about this in the forum and raise the question whether Americans are too picky about accomodation abroad.

The OP started a thread on May 5 2006 asking, among other things, about advice on renting a property sleeping 12 people in Scotland for a week. She was budgeting $5000 at that time. She got a number of replies with reasonable advice and links to several websites.

Two years later, having forgotten all the reasonable advice, she goes ahead and rents one of the cheapest properties offered; she rents a place sleeping 12 people for $3300 a week.

This brings down (compared to her original budget) the cost per guest per night from $59.50 to $39.30, or at current exchange rate from £29.75 to £19.65, having paid a total of £1650.00.

What did she expect at a rate of £19.65 per person per night? Balmoral Castle? Holyrood House?

If I compare the rental cost per week in early June with Landmark trust properties (this, by the way, is an organisation brought to the attention of the OP in the thread started in May 2006), she has not the slightest reason to complain:

An accomodation sleeping 12 people rented from the Landmark Trust would cost between £2549 ($5098) and £4792 ($9584) per week in June. This breaks down to between £30.35 ($60.70) and £57 ($114) per person per night, i.e. 154% to 290% the amount the OP paid, and these are the Landmark Trust prices in 2007!

In conclusion: the property rented by the OP was substandard, but no worse than was to be expected in this price range. There is no way a weekly rent of $3300 can be called "top dollar" for a holiday property sleeping 12 people (and at times accomodating 21). "Cheapskate" seems more appropriate.

It is a classical example of getting what you are paying for.

<i>What did she expect at a rate of &pound;19.65 per person per night? Balmoral Castle? Holyrood House?</i>

I think she deserves a house that is as advertised. I think she deserves a house without mold. From the pictures on one of the linked sites, it seems clear to me (bear in mind that I don't believe the owner's claim about fraudulent photos) that the owner put forth at least some effort to hide the mold and other problems. This suggests that they knew it was a problem.

<i>Well, well. If I ever stay in a hotel or other accommodation that has mold, peeling wallpaper, holes in the floor, etc., I CERTAINLY WILL NOT TELL ANYBODY ON FODOR'S!!!</i>

I find that many on the Europe forum will make any excuse for any issue in Europe. I mean, one person here claimed that a lack of hot water and poor pressure is &quot;part of the experience.&quot; It might be, but it doesn't make it a positive part of the experience. I wouldn't let it ruin your day, but let's not kid ourselves and make it seem like a big plus.

<i>What I do object to is the suggestion (not necessarily from the OP) that UK/European accomodation is generally always poorer than the US</i>

Do you honestly think that, on average, it isn't? I think that European accommodation might be competitive at the low and high-end, but show me a European 4-star hotel, and I will show you an American 3-star hotel. Show me a European 3-star hotel, and I will show you an American 2-star hotel.

And perhaps we should get away from the European vs American thing. So, I will ask, why is accommodation (above 2-star level) in the UK so much worse than accommodation in Asia?

tuscanlifdeedit: &quot;<i>On the property's website, there are NO pictures of the interior. </i>&quot;

What web site did you check? There are MANY interior photos - at least nine pictures of ground floor rooms and nine of bedrooms/upstairs rooms. Maybe you didn't click on the links to the actual accommodations - the &quot;photo album&quot; is scenic shots of Balquhidder, not of the house interiors.

&quot;show me a European 4-star hotel, and I will show you an American 3-star hotel. &quot;

I don't think that you can use the star rating as a reliable measuring stick as (as far as I know) the criteria are defined nationally so there are no uniform ratings across Europe, and these differ again in the US.

There's a fairly informative article on this here:
http://goeurope.about.com/cs/hotels/a/hotel_stars.htm

<i>I don't think that you can use the star rating as a reliable measuring stick as (as far as I know) the criteria are defined nationally so there are no uniform ratings across Europe, and these differ again in the US.</i>

Which is all another way of saying that a 4-star hotel in Europe is not to the same level as a 4-star in the US. I don't care whether their standards are &quot;different&quot;. I readily acknowledge they are. What I am interested in is whether the standards are higher in Europe or the US. My contention is that they are higher in the US. I think the gap is actually pretty well-documented.

And, I don't accept that you can't compare. It may be difficult, but if you don't try to compare, then you aren't really offering a useful review (in my opinion) as you divorce your comments from any sort of common frame of reference.

Raspberry 7 said:

&quot;In conclusion: the property rented by the OP was substandard, but no worse than was to be expected in this price range. There is no way a weekly rent of $3300 can be called &quot;top dollar&quot; for a holiday property sleeping 12 people (and at times accomodating 21). &quot;Cheapskate&quot; seems more appropriate.

It is a classical example of getting what you are paying for.&quot;

I agree completely.

Just to clarify, I also am tempted to rent these &quot;cheaper&quot; accommodations but have to tell myself that it's worth paying more for better quality.

Two years ago, I stayed in three B&amp;Bs in Devon. Two were clean but the third was in an old &quot;gentleman's house&quot; that needed lots of repair and upkeep. I felt that the owners were a built overwhelmed with their property and the carpet needed changing BADLY (the carpet stank around the sink.) I also felt their standard of cleanliness was not as high as mine.

Moral: the chances are if you pay more, you'll get more.

I experienced a bathroom with black mildew/mold all around the shower in the US, Hawaii to be precise. This was in a property advertised in VRBO.

There are some pretty dire hotels/accommodations in the US just as there in the UK.

&quot;Which is all another way of saying that a 4-star hotel in Europe is not to the same level as a 4-star in the US.&quot;

Not exactly - what I was trying to say was that you can't generalise about &quot;four star hotels in Europe&quot; simply because each European country measures/rates them in a different way.

&quot;And, I don't accept that you can't compare. It may be difficult, but if you don't try to compare, then you aren't really offering a useful review (in my opinion) as you divorce your comments from any sort of common frame of reference.&quot;

I'm not sure if that comment was directed at me, as I didn't say that you couldn't compare. Just that the star-rating wasn't necessarily the most reliable means of doing so. Of course one must compare, otherwise how would one choose one's accommodation?
(Price, location, &quot;charm&quot; (subjective I know), user reviews and recommendations also come into play for me when I'm deciding where to stay.)

Some things about this whole thing rather surprise me.
One is why the OP hasn't posted a report on TripAdvisor
The other is the fact that they didn't complain at the time of lack of bed linen. For a start, it isn't very hygienic to sleep under a duvet without a cover or to put your head on a pillow without a pillow-case.
I have never been anywhere where there isn't a folder with phone numbers for doctors, garages, pubs etc. and information about the house.
There should be a phone number where one can contact the owner or agent.
There is actually a number on the website, so why on earth didn't they get in touch with the owner and explain the problem

There are some pretty dire hotels/accommodations in the US just as there in the UK.


Our best one was where we flushed the loo and the water just kept coming out until it flooded the bathroom.
We hadn't put anything down there to block it.