Hi all, thanks to all for replying to my mother's post. I was present at the house and for the subsequent time in England. Let me assure everyone that the post came from the legitimate concern that we were being too tough with our standards and wanted additional perspective - nothing ignoble about it. I can also testify that the concerns about American expectations in Europe such as differences in closets, appliances, old homes,etc are not an issue with anyone in our party.


About the bed linen issue - I think there was clearly something amiss here. As Original poster mentioned, there was a dust ruffle thing and a duvet or coverlet. I do not think that this was the norm because in the B & Bs and other house we stayed in, there was dust ruffle, fitted sheet and then duvet. No top sheet which was fine.

On our travels and stays in B & Bs, we encountered places that were worn a bit around the edges but were well maintained and spotless. (Also, very nice owners who went out of their way to help us out with recommendations, directions etc) No problems or fuss from us. This house was not that. Aside from mold, peeling wall paper etc, the place was dirty and poorly maintained. A few additional examples - The linoleum in our bathroom had an 8 inch slice in it and my daughter's bedroom had a hole in the floor that spooked her enough that she slept in a single bed with my other daughter all week.

Overall, my impression is that this house was definitely a miss by most people's standards. My observation of GB lodging is that things may be a bit more worn than we are generally used to in US but that cleanliness and maintenance can still be expected.

A sidenote, I used the fodor's guide pretty regularly especially for help in choosing restaurants. I came across a few changes, closed restaurants and inaccuracies - where do I report those?


Thanks.

I am an American and will put up with less-than-perfect accommodations to get the charm and atmosphere of an old place. (As an example, I recently stayed in a charming old hotel in Liverpool and was lucky enough to get one of the unrefurbished rooms and turned down a chance to change rooms when the toilet quit working because it was late at night and we'd partly settled in and because I was afraid I'd be put in a more modern room. Unfortunately, during the night I experienced a full bout of intestinal flu-type symptoms with nothing but an ice bucket to pour water in the commode with! We thought the ice bucket would suffice for our normal middle-of-the-night trips to the bathroom)But in regard to the dust ruffle--in America that is not considered a sheet. It goes over the box springs so that you have a neat dust ruffle and not one that comes loose and droops, etc. Here it doesn't go over the mattress. You then use a bottom sheet over the mattress. No one would be sleeping on the dust ruffle topper, or whatever it's called. I certainly wouldn't want to wash that every time I wash sheets and pillow cases. Nor would I wash a duvet cover every week and try to stuff that thing back inside it. If they want to do that in the UK, more power to them. But this is just to clarify why Rmkelly thought she was sleeping on the dust ruffle. In the U.S. that wouldn't happen. Dirt and mold is another thing altogether and totally uncalled for. If someone is going to sleep in my house, I make sure they have a clean room! And they aren't paying for it.
If the water was a funny color, I would warn people ahead of time and explain it.

"Which leads to the question: are we wrong to expect better accommodations when we go to Europe or should we just accept that things are much older and not in the greatest condition?"

IMO it depends on where you are staying.

When I roll into the Covent Garden hotel in London and I'm paying more than $600 per night for a room, I do not expect, nor will I accept "older and not in the greatest condition."

When I roll into some B+B in the countryside I expect the accommodation to be as <b>described</b> and in working order.

I am not paying for DIRT, mold, cracked windows, etc. These things aren't &quot;charming&quot; ...they're sub-par.

Re: the duvet controversy--a year or so there was an entire long thread on Fodors solely on duvet questions. Am not sure if it's still here.

Adding fuel to the fire:
In May 2000 we stayed in one of those large old elegant houses (maybe originally 16th or 17th) century in Kent. Fairly expensive at the time although I don't recall what we paid--maybe $175 or more per night.

The bedroom was literally gigantic. However, in walking on the carpet I could feel huge gaps between the floorboards and could hear music below coming up through the boards. At the time I was aghast; now I get it.

Josser, please don't suggest that my OP was a grand old scheme to get money back from the homeowner. Perhaps in your circle blackmailing the house owner in order to receive a refund is acceptable.
In ours it is not.

Raspberry7, you quoted me out of context so your post is less than credible. Also, have you ever run across a hotel room with 2 double beds and a sleeper sofa?

Liz,
Thanks for your comments and for backing me up.

To answer the original question, yes, I am particular about the accommodation. I have my basic requirements. When I check TA for reviews, I take into consideration from only those reviews by Americans.

Sorry if I was unclear aobut closets in Switzerland. I understand that in houses that are very old there may not be modern type showers and closets were not built in.

But they live in brand new housing - and even rental apartments come without closets and with no kitchen cabinets. Renters need to buy kitchen appliances, cabinets and closets (all things that have been standard - along with a proper shower) in any residence (for rental or sale) built in the US since before 1900.

I remember that my mother said when she was a little girl - earl 1920's - they had an &quot;ice box&quot; in the kitchen instead of a refrigerator. And a delivery man came every day to replace the ice in the ice box so the food wouldn;t spoil. (But then they also had a man who delivered milk daily and another who came and deliverd veggies daily. But - then most women didn;t have jobs and could go food shopping daily - and didn;t expect to buy a week;s food to fit in the fridge all at once.

I read this entire thread with great interest. I think that there is a huge difference between expecting things to be subpar by American standards and filth. When we travel to Europe we expect things to be different but it goes with the territory and we usually quite enjoy those differences. But mold, mildew and dirtiness is something that I would never expect in any accommodation I am paying for. That's just gross, and my allergies would go insane.

It sounds to me like the OP and her family is quite used to staying in various types of accommodations in Europe and expects things to be different. But mold is mold regardless of where you come from, and in my opinion is simply not acceptable.

Tracy

quote:
But, over here, no one ever uses a top sheet with a duvet. Top sheets are pretty much obsolete now as they are only used with blankets and virtually no-one uses blankets any more.
quote

absolutely wrong!

i just stayed at the puente romano hotel in marbella - one of the best hotels in spain. and based on the fact that their majority of guests come from the UK they still have that blancket/sheet system. i personally prefer duvets. but nonetheless - blanckets are not THAT out of a question, even in 5*+ hotels.

@ schuler

thx a lot for providing the links to the TA comments.

i must admit - i would not bet for either of the parties involved. it's too difficult to make up my mind here.

div

For the past 2 days, I have followed this post - my Mother's post - and have found some of the responses to be quite interesting, to say the least. As a guest at this house in Scotland on the very same trip, I was equally as shocked at the poor conditions of the property, despite the wonderful, stately description found on the owner's website. We could have lived with the duvet/dust ruffle issue, and even the trickling water in the shower for the week, but the fact that there appeared to be significant water damage in many rooms, that there were holes and cracks in many floorboards, door frames, and crumbling crown molding throughout - come on, folks!

I would also like to mention that despite the living quarters, however, we did have a wonderful time on our trip. Scotland is indeed beautiful and we have hundreds of pictures of the pretty scenery and sights. We all have very fond memories of our trip. My family of 5 then stayed at the Citadines - Trafalgar Square before travelling back to the states. (This was a great place to stay, and I would recommend it highly for anyone travelling with 5-7 people who are visiting London for few days.)

To avoid our Scotland rental experience in the future, I think it would be wise to go directly through an agency with high standards, so as not to be disappointed again.

&quot;Sorry if I was unclear aobut closets in Switzerland. I understand that in houses that are very old there may not be modern type showers and closets were not built in.

But they live in brand new housing - and even rental apartments come without closets and with no kitchen cabinets. Renters need to buy kitchen appliances, cabinets and closets (all things that have been standard - along with a proper shower) in any residence (for rental or sale) built in the US since before 1900.&quot;

NYTraveler:

Appliances are built-in in kitchens here in Switzerland. You do not have to buy your own. All kitchens come with cabinets except for a few old, inexpensive rentals.

There are usually no closets in the bedroom. This is standard. There are usually a few storage closets but usually you have to buy closets for your coats and shoes if you have a rental.

The question is if you had only two reviews and one was very bad, and that was by an American and you think that is more to your standards -- why would you then go ahead and rent the place?

Unless the owner is delusional, that response makes this whole thing smell, I agree. I don't believe this post was just some innocent query wondering if one's standards are too high. I think it was to get even with the owner and put out negative publicity and the web. The owner said they didn't even complain until have moving out in 4-5 days (that's like eating a full meal in a restaurant and then complaining it was so terrible you want your money back). Also, the owner says they have started up some websites to give bad publicity.

This sounds odd, but there are some people who really are vindictive and obsess over things and do start up websites about a particular company or event in order to complain about things, so who knows. I remember one woman who was really bonkers over some tour she took and she didn't check into any of the itinerary or facts so was very disapppointed that the bus seats were too small, etc. and she did start a website just to complain about that tour and posted on Fodors about it, also, as well as other websites. She was obsessed about that experience, even though it was really her fault as she hadn't done any research, and she exaggerated a lot of things. Maybe the owner is just referring to comments like this and on Tripadvisor, which are fair game, as far as I'm concerned.

Hang on.

There's a clearly dishonest American lawyer who's been going round libelling the owner of the house concerned since late 2007

And then there's the poster on this site, whose upset with the house is apparently based on experience a few weeks ago.

<b> There's not a shred of evidence the two are the same person, and it's really not on to make accusations that imply RMKElly is the shyster lawyer</b>

Personally I DO think RMKelly's being ridiculously picky. There's nothing wrong with a bit of mould, (it's almost unavoidable in a damp climate like ours, I've had it everywhere I've ever lived and it's never done me a scrap of harm): brown water's just fine and if they don't know about duvets it really ISN'T the job of a landlord to teach her or her family. What are thgey going to want next? Bidet tutorials? Personal advisors about how to walk to the shops?

But being a moaner's not the same thing as being a devious lawyer. RMKelly might not be everyone's prefered guest - but imputing dishonesty really is disgraceful.

Yikes... I think this site re: Stronvar really does tell the story well (http://www.stronvar.info/). I would never stay in a house with this much mold and disrepair. The owners should be ashamed of themselves. Fix it up and charge more instead of subjective people to possible sickness.

Having looked at the other site (by the &quot;dishonest&quot; lawyer), I can't say that I don't believe what's being said/portrayed. This was obviously someone who planned a vacation that was ruined by the horrible conditions of this house. I have to say, I'd be really angry as well - I work hard for both the time *and* the money and would hate to be royally sc***ed like this.

A couple of points.

1) The OP NEVER named the place. They specifically said they wouldn't do that. So, let's lay off the &quot;they are getting even&quot; garbage.

2) There is the question of the photographs. I know the owner claims they are doctored, but that seems like a lot of effort to go to, in order to save a few thousand dollars. Particularly when, the person on TA complaining is purported to be a lawyer. I'm sure they are going to risk disbarment by defrauding the house owner.

3) Anyone who doesn't believe that this lack of maintenance is readily found in the UK is deluding themselves.

I mean, think about it. Who has more to gain/lose here? Why immediately assume ignoble intent from someone who stands to gain maybe $5000? Why wouldn't you be more inclined to think that the owner, who has much more to lose, is the one lying? It is just illogical. Perhaps the OP is lying, but I don't know why one would assume that, without significantly more evidence than is seen here.

Indeed, even the owner's rebuttal on TA is nothing more than vague assertions. If he got a clean inspection, why not scan the inspection form and post it? Why not detail how the pictures are forged? Why not post your own pictures? If he has so many happy clients, why have none come to his defense? Something is rotten in Denmark, and it ain't the OP.

&quot;1) The OP NEVER named the place. They specifically said they wouldn't do that. So, let's lay off the &quot;they are getting even&quot; garbage.&quot;

The OP did thoughtfully provide us with a fool-proof way of getting the name of the property. Read their 2nd post in the thread.

Very, very interesting post. I've been to the UK many times and have spent countless nights in B&amp;Bs. There have been a few that have been rather interesting but my husband and I laugh about it and think of it as an adventure and experience. We do not expect luxury. We always stay in 4 or 5 star B&amp;Bs that are always 30 pppn or less - takes a bit of digging but it can be done! So far I have not experienced anything serious whatsoever. Sure, there's the odd cobweb or tiny closet or funny toilet but if you look hard (and I mean HARD) you can find places that are definitely not substandard. It's funny because I do not think that lodging is substandard in the UK. Maybe I'm missing something...;)

I have certainly found worse in North America (I live in Canada). I am a detail person (am anal about it) and almost always find the good in each and every single place. I can put up with a weird shower (with all the funny pulls and chains and buttons! :)) )if the B&amp;B is surrounded by huge lovely trees and bleating sheep and has a kitchen with slate floors.

Sure, sometimes showers are not as hot as I am used to or as powerful as I am used to but it is different and part of the experience. Small closets? No matter. It would not even dawn on me to complain about it. :) The character and charm more than make up for convenience. If it was something serious that affected my health (i.e. mold) that would be a different matter and definitely worth pursuing.

Plus if it was described in such a way and did not meet the description (as someone else mentioned) it would be disappointing.

As far as bedding goes, many self-catering places I have seen requires
the renter to bring sheets. We always confirm that as we will not take a place that requires bedding (traveling from Canada with one bag each we are very limited to luggage space).

you would have been much better off renting several cottages at the Leny Lodge (www.lenyestate.com).

we statyed there in 1999 and were very comfortable.