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April Planning for Spain
This is a partial duplicate of of a second, later post. For the complete, detailed topic, please see post #2.
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Spain in April - Suggestions?!
Forgive me if this is a double post….we won’t even go there…!!!
We will be traveling to Spain in April, 21 days/22 nights. I reached out to a frequent Spain contributor and was advised that Barcelona would take a bit more time than we thought, so Barcelona will be saved for a future trip. Here is the schedule that I think will work best. Not too rushed, enough time to see the big sights and a bit of time to take it all in! 1st night - (1 night) Madrid at the airport, Clement Hotel 2nd-5th nights - (4 nights) Córdoba, need hotel suggestions 6th-11th nights - (6 nights) Sevilla - Acogedor Apartment - the week before Feria de Abril - with day tip to Ronda 12th-15th nights - (4 nights) Granada - FerAla Suites 16th- 22nd nights- (6 nights) Madrid - Catalonia Hotel - (1 night) Toledo, somewhere in the week, need hotel suggestions We will be in Madrid during Memorial Day, May 1 - should we make this our travel date to or from Toledo? I ask that as I understand most businesses are closed with the exception of the tourist based businesses. We would also like to find a Guide to take us on a private city tour. A guide in each location. Or we can hop on and hop off a bus if that’s the best way to get acquainted with the city. And a bike ride tour in each of the spots and anything else someone might think would be a fun break. We aren’t planning on renting a car. We thought we’d do all travel by train, buses, taxis… Uber…. Would a car be a useful in certain areas? We’ve kinda settled on the hotels/apartments listed after the city, but nothing is written in stone. We still need a hotel for Córdoba and for Toledo. We having really looked into any sights and what it takes to visit them…yikes! Thought we’d get the itinerary down first… baby steps! Again, any thoughts, suggestions or comments are all welcome! A big thank you upfront! Can’t wait to see what comes!!! |
We have merged your two threads
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Perfect!
Thanks for the help! |
This sounds like a great plan. We really enjoyed our stay at the Balcon de Cordoba in (surprise!) Cordoba. If you decide to stay there, I highly recommend booking dinner there. It was delicious and served on their balcony with a beautiful view.
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Thanks, KT! I’ll look up Balcón de Córdoba. Appreciate the suggestion!
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Map for guests of the Catalonia Las Cortes hotel
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...LuCM4MFXaSEOjY |
Thanks for the map!
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lymichie,
Just a question first about night 1: Did you consider after arrival to go directly by train to Córdoba from Atocha station rather than overnight in Madrid? I assume that maybe your flight arrives late with multiple connections and you'll be too tired to press on (I know that sometimes we are, flying from the US West coast). Another airport area hotel getting solid reviews is the Hotel MAYDRIT. It's a bit better reviewed on booking.com than the Clement. https://www.hotelmadridmaydrit.com/en/. For Córdoba, I can certainly second the rec. of the Balcón de Córdoba, a lovely boutique hotel in the heart of the Judería. My "runner-up" would be the Casas de la Judería. I'll have 3 nights soon in Córdoba to revisit favorite sites (Mosque, Palacio de Viana, the patios of the San Basilio quarter , Julio Romero Torres Museum, Alcázar, to attend the evening Sound & Light show ("Soul of Córdoba) and for a day trip to the archaeological site of Medina Azahara. And there are modern day hamamms in Córdoba, Sevilla and Granada if that appeals. https://tickets.mezquita-catedraldec...oul-of-cordoba https://cordobaecuestre.com/entradas...os-en-cordoba/ https://www.turismodecordoba.org/dai...zahara-cordoba https://www.turismodecordoba.org/the-patios-of-cordoba https://cordoba.hammamalandalus.com/en/ I don't know your Sevilla apartment but I'll check it out while there soon for 8 nights. Ditto to your suites in Granada's Albaicín, which look lovely. For Toledo, a nice boutique property in the center: the Hotel Boutique Adolfo right next to the Plaza Zocodover (but "adults only"). https://hotelboutiqueadolfo.com My "runner up"--the interesting and new Entre Dos Aguas, former home of famed flamenco guitarist Paco de Lucía. (I'm a big fan). https://www.casaentredosaguas.es You'll have museum closures on May 1 in Toledo as well, so I would go there on another day. Which Catalonia in Madrid? If it's the Catalonia Las Cortes in the heart of the Barrio de las Letras, you'll be very happy there. A Fodorite favorite and a good value. I'd choose a larger room rather than an entry level that run small. The jr. suites have their original ceiling frescoes. And Revulgo's map is great. I follow it myself. Bike rides in Sevilla: See by Bike (but there are other companies since biking in Seville is easy) https://seebybike.com Private, professional licensed guides, if you need them, that I've used: (but private guide services are expensive in Spain) Madrid: Madrid Museum Tours (for the Prado) https://madridmuseumtours.com/en/ Across Madrid (for the same--this one I haven't used but has been reviewed here on the forum) https://www.acrossmadrid.com/en/abou...choose-us.html Córdoba: For Córdoba- Isabel Martínez Richter, an archaeologist, Rick Steves recommended https://www.cordoba24.info/english/h...dtfuehrer.html For Granada- Margarita Ortiz de Landazuri, who has also given tours for Rick Steves--excellent, especially for the Alhambra Alhambra tours - Guided visits to Alhambra - Services For Seville- Concepción Delgado of Sevilla Walking Tours, who does tours for Rick Steves, for the Real Alcázar & other monuments Shawn Hennessy of Azahar Sevilla, for first rate tapas tours https://sevillawalkingtours.com/opinions/ https://azahar-sevilla.com/sevilleta...rs/tapas-tour/ For traveling between cities, the high-speed trains work very well. For your planned itinerary, Córdoba-Sevilla-Granada-Madrid-Toledo, there's no need for a rental car. Purchase tickets in advance for significant discounts at www.renfe.com, the National Rail Network Or for Madrid-Córdoba, Renfe will soon have competition on the southern line, starting March 31---IRYO, a venture from Air Europa and Italian rail with spiffy, red Frecciarossa trains. https://iryo.eu/en/home. Hope this helps! |
Just another thought about night #1,
When our itinerary through LHR gets us into Barajas exhausted in the evening, and we leave for the south via train the next morning, rather than move to an airport hotel with nothing really noteworthy around it, we somehow find the energy to hop in a taxi (flat rate, €30) and spend the night in a Madrid hotel within walking distance of Puerta de Atocha rail station for our next morning's AVE trip to Andalucía. You might (or might not) want to consider this. Nice, boutique-style hotels within walking distance of Puerta de Atocha: Only You Hotel Atocha, directly across the street the brand new Radisson RED (a complete remake of the former Hotel Paseo del Arte) Atocha Hotel Madrid Tapestry Collection by Hilton, a bit further up on Calle Atocha They all have nice on-site dining if you're too tired to go out--- with the Only You having a roof top terrace, the Tapestry a pretty interior garden and the RED a restaurant supervised by Michelin-starred Basque chef Eneko Atxa, an unusual Japanese-Basque hybrid. |
I second Maribel's recommendation of Las Casas de la Juderia. When we were there in 2017, the hotel provided an honor bar in its lovely courtyard. We were traveling with friends, and we met them in the courtyard every evening for drinks before we went out to dinner. It was fun to socialize here before heading out for the evening. The hotel is located in a very convenient location in the Juderia (old Jewish quarter) and a few minutes' walk from the Mezquita and Alcazar.
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Hijole!!!
What WONDERFUL and generous replies!!! Gosh, I’m so excited, I have to read and reread Maribel reply’s! And thank you KarenWoo for your thoughts! This might take a bit of time to digest… THANK YOU! I’m going to sit down tomorrow and spend the day with all of the info!!!! Muchas gracias, que amable!!! |
lymichie,
Have fun with your planning! |
i can't compete with Maribel's depth of knowledge, but I do have another recommendation for a hotel in Toledo, namely https://www.hotelsanjuandelosreyes.c...l-toledo-spain
It's just along the street from the monastery of the same name, close [within walking distance] to quite a few other sites, including the wonderful Cathedral, and has a great restaurant. Very comfortable and reasonable too. Just my two penn'oth. |
annhig,
All information is appreciated! I’m going to check this hotel as well. Can never have too many options! And can never pass up a restaurant recommendation… Thank you! |
lymichie,
About May 1 Madrid museum/monument closures: The following will be closed on Monday, May 1- Prado Centro de Arte Reina Sofía Thyssen MAN (Museo Nacional de Arqueología) Museo Nacional de Artes Decorativas Sorolla Royal Palace But there'a always walking in beautiful Retiro Park or renting a row boat on its artificial lake, the Campo de Moro gardens, sunset at the Templo de Debod, a walk through the always bustling San Miguel Market and the adjacent Plaza Mayor, the Royal Botanical Gardens next to the Prado, chilling out at Madrid Río Park next to the Manzanares River, etc... |
Oh, doesn’t renting a boat sound fun?!
Thanks for the list of May 1 closures, we’ll make certain to get to those sites early in our Madrid stay. We noted your thoughts on private city guides… we will do a bit more research to see how it’s best done. I like to have a tour our first day to get a bit of a feel/familiarity with the city. It’s been suggested, the Hop-on Hop-off buses are a good way to see the sites… ;) We’re taking your advice and will head into Madrid upon landing rather than stay at the airport. Start the trip with an evening walk around Madrid and find the Puerta de Atocha rail station! Can’t thank you Maribel, KT, Revulgo, KarenWoo and annhig, enough for the help! This is just such great fun! |
The HOHO bus isn't really needed to see the sights of Old Madrid, since Old Madrid is very walkable, especially since you're staying at the very conveniently located for a first time visitor Catalonia Las Cortes in the Barrio de las Letras quarter.
There is another route of the HOHO that gives a tour of modern Madrid, up to the Bernabeu stadium, but you can take the metro to reach Bernabeu if you want to take the stadium tour. Metro stop is right there. If any in your family happens to be Real Madrid fans. https://www.realmadrid.com/en/tickets/tour-bernabeu |
BTW, for lunch within walking distance from the Bernabeu stadium, Viavelez is recommended https://restauranteviavelez.com/
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Maribel, you realize we’re going to have to take the HOHO bus just because you named it the HOHO bus ;)
Thanks for the heads-up on the routes. I didn’t realize there would be more than one route for the city. I thought the route would be quite wide sweeping taking in all of the highlights. We do want to pop up to the stadium so the modern city route we’ll take. Revulgo, the Viavelez looks lovely! That will be perfect; tour the stadium, lunch and hop back on the HoHo bus! What a trip this is going to be!!! |
As you say that you are open to more info, one tip I picked up when I was last in Spain was to use the Fork app to find restaurants while I was out and about, especially in the day. Very good value menu de dia lunches are often available and with discounts if you book ahead even by a few minutes. You can view the menu, prices, and times available and book your table, all on line. It worked very well for me in Madrid ,even in the evenings.
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annhig, Fork looks like it will come in handy when wandering around, thanks! So many times we’ve walked around in circles trying to decide where to pickup a quick bite. Fork will be a big help!
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I can enthusiastically second Revulgo's recommendation of Viavélez for lunch! We go there often for the chef's unbeatable fixed price menu of the day, served in the bar area with high tables. It's really a great value for only 21 euros and it changes daily.
https://restauranteviavelez.com/la-t...nu-de-taberna/ In the formal dining room downstairs the chef serves another, longer daily fixed menu for 35 euros. https://restauranteviavelez.com/el-r...l-menu-diario/ Viavélez is a locals' favorite. When a restaurant doesn't have its own booking engine, I often book on The Fork. My favorite The Fork bargain can be found at Can Bonet, on Menéndez Pelayo, the avenue that runs on the eastern side of beautiful Retiro Park. If you book a table for 1 pm or 1:15, which is considered quite early by Madrid standards, you receive a 50% discount. The food, the service and the atmosphere are really lovely. After a stroll through the Retiro Park we often go to Can Bonet for lunch, and when booking ahead, are given a nice window table to watch the activities in the park. Its sister restaurant next door, Sa Brisa, also offers a discount. Sa Brisa serves dishes from Ibiza, while Can Bonet offers delicious rice dishes, an excellent version of pa amb tomàquet (delicious tomato bread that you prepare yourself with fresh tomatoes, bread, garlic and top class olive oil) and a great crema catalana for dessert. Another fine bargain! (I know most of The Fork's bargains by heart--I have 1,000 "Yums" I still haven't used. https://www.thefork.com/restaurant/c...madrid-r681881 https://www.restaurantecanbonet.com/menu/ |
Are 6 nights each in Madrid and Sevilla too much? Or for that matter 4 nights in Cordoba?
Rather than day trip to Ronda, how about a couple of nights there, taken from the 6 nights in Sevilla, for example? Is renting a car a possibility? |
I apologize for hijacking this thread. I notice that Maribel and Annhig recommend using The Fork for choosing and booking restaurants. I have never used them. Are the restaurants generally restaurants with good reviews? Places you have been happy with? The reason I ask is that sometimes we choose restaurants recommended on Trip Advisor and/or Yelp, and we have been dissatisfied; not very good food, poor service, etc. We will be in Scotland in June, and I will be looking for restaurant recommendations, so I will look at The Fork. Thanks!
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lymichie,
I didn't comment on the number of nights you've given to each destination and the day trip to Ronda. The issue with getting to Ronda is that public transportation is now limited in 2023. Damas is the bus line, with currently only 4 departures from Sevilla per day with the ride taking 2 hr. 30 min. The train ride, one per day, takes 3 hours with a train change in Antequera. If you consider removing the 4th night from Córdoba and add an overnight from Sevilla to Ronda, the problem will be going on from Ronda to Granada by public transportation. From Ronda to Granada there's no direct bus (it requires a bus change in Málaga). From Ronda to Granada by train, there are only 2 train connections, one departure at 7:58 am and one at 6:55 pm. Both require a change from the MD (media distancia) to the high-speed AVANT in Antequera. The trip takes from 2.5 to almost 3 hr. Just for your consideration.... Karen, I trust the reviews on The Fork a bit more than Yelp and certainly far more than on TA (sorry!). Anything with a review score of 9 or above is usually going to be reliable. And The Fork has an "Insiders" section. But..The Fork isn't my first source because there are so many (hundreds) of restaurants now on The Fork that it can sometimes be like searching for a needle in a haystack. Instead, I follow the Spain professional food critic blogs, their Twitter and Instagram feeds for my sources and also always use the Repsol guide for choosing my dining (and to a lesser extent the Michelin guide for their Bib Gourmand recommendations for good value). But I admit to being picky. Revulgo and I agree, certainly, on his selections. (I used to follow a certain "Juan Doe" on the now departed Chowhound. :p ) www.guiarepsol.com When I see that Guia Repsol has given a restaurant a nod, a simple "recomendado", or a "solete" for a good value, casual spot or even a "Sol" (a 1 "Sol" restaurant like my favorite, La Catapa in Madrid, is not nearly expensive as a 1 star Michelin, ime, and we dine there at high tables in the bar). So these are my sources. If I see one that's bookable on The Fork and not on the restaurant's own web page, I use The Fork. |
KarenWoo - I've not used it much in the UK but certainly I've had very good results in Spain and eaten at restaurants that most probably I'd never have tried otherwise. And I'm heartened by the fact that Maribel also finds it so useful. I've also used Open table with some success.
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Originally Posted by annhig
(Post 17427911)
KarenWoo - I've not used it much in the UK but certainly I've had very good results in Spain and eaten at restaurants that most probably I'd never have tried otherwise. And I'm heartened by the fact that Maribel also finds it so useful. I've also used Open table with some success.
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Karen, lymichie and Ann & others,
Although Guía Repsol is only in Spanish, to search all of their recommended restaurants, let's say, In Madrid, just click on the menu on the upper left side, then click on "Comer" (to eat), then in the Busca de Restaurantes de la Guía, insert Madrid, but choose ¨Madrid Localidad¨ rather than "Madrid Comunidad Autónoma" or "Madrid Provincia", and you should see all the guide's recommended Madrid city restaurants, from ones with a Repsol sun ("sol"), to "soletes" to just "recomendado". Way down on the long list, if you click on "Casa Mortero", one of our favorites, serving very classic but updated Madrid cuisine, you'll see the opening hours, its exact location (just steps from the Thyssen Museum), estimated price/p (€35) and the direct web link. Casa Mortero is also a Michelin Bib Gourmand for good value. |
scrb11 your thoughts on the number of nights in Madrid, Sevilla and Córdoba are understood, but we tend to travel a bit slower. It’s interesting to see the big important sights, but it’s also interesting to meander and wonder around the town with no real agenda (I like to go into grocery stores and see the different products). I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea… ;). I do thank you for suggesting adding a night or two in Ronda… we’ll rent a car if there’s something we really want to see… it’s not out of the question.
Maribel, thank you for the rundown on logistics to Ronda. Your reply will save me hours. We might simply skip Ronda this trip and concentrate on Sevilla. And Guía Repsol! Big surprise, I’ve never heard of GR. Sounds like quite the resource! Karen, so happy you asked about Fork. Couldn’t agree with you more… Yelp and TA, we have been disappointed many times, but keep referring to them…? Fork will be so very handy when out and about, but very interesting learning about Guía Repsol… and how to use the site effectively! No such thing as hijacking… just broadens the information pool! |
I LOVE wandering in grocery stores and especially indoor markets.
My favorite do-not-miss real markets (where the locals actually shop rather than glorified food halls) in Madrid are the Mercado Antón Martín near your Catalonia Las Cortes at the metro stop Antón Martín and the lovely Mercado de la Paz in the Salamanca district, at the corner of Lagasca and Ayala. We actually have lunch in both---downstairs at the Mercado de Antón Martín at Sincio and LaLópez Bar and at Mercado de La Paz at Casa Dani that serves one of the best versions of tortilla española in town, that has won awards. It's a favorite of the top Madrid chefs and was recently featured on the Discovery Plus series, "José Andrés and Family in Spain". And in Sevilla, the Mercado de Triana, on the other side of the Guadalquivir River. If you have any interest, the Taller Andaluz de Cocina does nice, easy cooking classes there. https://tallerandaluzdecocina.com A review from my friend Shawn of Azahar Seville- http://azahar-sevilla.com/tag/triana/ |
While in Seville, we had lunch at the Mercado de Triana. It was delicious and a bit strange. According to my notes, we ate a lot of seafood and mushroom dishes. The only item I didn't like (along with our friends we were traveling with) is the plate of conch that my husband ordered. They were in their shells and we were given strange-looking forks, with short tines and one very long tine to dig the conch out of their shells. My friends and I didn't care for the taste, but my husband loved them. And there was a surprise in one of the conch shells, a hermit crab! We love to try different foods but I might not like everything. My husband will eat just about anything.
Lymichie, I understand your love of visiting grocery stores. We will pop into a few grocery stores and will definitely visit markets, indoors and outdoors. If we can, I always add some extra time for just meandering. We oftentimes buy some of these food products as gifts for ourselves and family at home. |
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Ha! Thank you… people think I’m nuts for perusing grocery stores…;) It’s fascinating to me to see the different foods, packaging and here goes, toothpastes! Thanks for the links and locations, Maribel, I always try to find the local markets, too. That makes it sound as if we’ve traveled a bit, we’ve not. Some to Mexico, and there it’s easy to find the local markets. I’m not the most adventurous diner; luckily we’ve had some great meals from the food stalls! Some not… but fortunately, like Karen’s husband, my husband will eat anything… so nothing goes to waste!
THANK YOU ALL!!! Keep any and all thoughts coming! |
My contribution… ;)
Ornament of the World written by Marie Rosa Menocal (also on PBS) |
Do you go to the chain supermarkets or to the specialist gourmet shops?
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Generally the chain markets and small neighborhood markets.
I also like to visit pharmacies.… different sunscreens, lotions, salves.. |
Just a correction about the Mercado de la Paz and the new José Andrés and Family Go to Spain series. A sequence was filmed at the market but not at Casa Dani, although Casa Dani is one of the chef's favorites.
I was thinking of the segment in Casa Dani that was part of the "Somebody Feed Fred" Madrid episode. José Andrés & daughters bought their leg of jamón ibérico at La Boulette in the market (if it was Joselito Gran Reserva, it probably set him back about 500 euros--we just purchase 100 gramos there!) https://www.laboulette.com/laboulette.asp https://www.mercadodelapaz.com In Córdoba he and his daughters had eggplant drizzled with cane honey at Casa Pepe de la Judería, another chef favorite, at Calle Romero 1. https://restaurantecasapepedelajuderia.com. Thanks for your contribution! I have the book in my library but haven't seen it on PBS. |
Originally Posted by lymichie
(Post 17428145)
Generally the chain markets and small neighborhood markets.
I also like to visit pharmacies.… different sunscreens, lotions, salves.. The small chain markets like Carrfour Express or Casino mini mostly carry packaged goods and some produce and meat. But the "hypermarkets" or "ipermercado" near freeways will have big sections of some prepared foods and bigger produce and meat departments. Then if you look on Google Maps for supermarkets, some cities will have gourmet stores with local foods like cured meats and cheeses. That's talking about Europe in general, not just Spain. As Maribel points out the larger cities have these big markets of course with meat, seafood, etc. though I've never eaten in those. |
lymichie,
Most first time visitors want to take a stroll through the always bustling Mercado de San Miguel, adjacent to Madrid's Plaza Mayor, which is an iron structure from 1913, modeled after Les Halles de Paris, and turned into a gourmet food court, sort of a smaller version of Lisbon's Time Out Market. It's not where the locals do their day-to-day grocery shopping, but it's become a tourist magnet. Another real life indoor market also with great small eateries, the "real deal", is the Mercado de Vallehermoso (metro: Quevedo) https://mercadovallehermoso.es but closer to the Catalonia las Cortes, within reasonable walking distance, you have the newly revamped Mercado de San Antón on Calle Augusto Figueroa in Chueca. The Madreamiga stand there sells killer almond croissants and the Charcutería de Octavio sells the finest of Spanish cheeses (Olavidia Quesos y besos--"best cheese in the world" for 2021 from The World Cheese Awards, plus dozens of other labels) . https://www.mercadosananton.com. https://lacharcuteriadeoctavio.com/productos/quesos/ |
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