Julius Ceasar! Sounds like PM Bersculoni with all his villas on Sardengia. Sooooory, just couldn't resist.

Those guys were truly wicked, twisted and perverted.

They sure are enjoying describing the vices and perversions of these people in great detail :&

They're getting into it a little too much, Scarlett? And historians are supposed to be so straitlaced!

Yeah, did you notice how the guy that describing the gladiators, got all excited when telling how strong they were and that they were sex symbols ? LOL
They are a bit bloodthirsty in this too..ick.

One of the onscreen commentators is Tom Holland, the guy who wrote "Rubicon." He does come across as a trifle odd here, but his book is good.

On the 'Engineering' episode they cut back to a few experts to explain things.
One of those experts was Darius Arya, an archaeologist who has lead digs in the Roman Forum and Ostia Antica. He is also one of ContextRome's (Scala Reale) guides usually doing the 'Ancient Rome' and the 'Ostia Antica' tours.

Also a couple of weeks ago I saw another show on the 'History Channel' that had a past Scala Reale archaeologist/guide featured as an expert.
Regards, Walter

Now I am worried, I fell asleep during the erotic murals at the baths in Pompeii. What does this mean? Yikes. The last thing I remember was the man saying he thinks they were drawn to be....what? And I was looking at the drawing of the man with his foot in the air....

Thanks for the rec on the book, I'll "amazon" it now.

that's ok SeaUrchin..seen one foot...

The rerun of Engineering an Empre will be shown on Friday September 9th at 8 eastern/ 7 central

http://www.historychannel.com/rome/

sandi, too funny. I think it was a foot.......

I remember walking around Pompeii with my husband and then 12 yr old son. We came across the universal "sign" pointing (if you know what I mean) the way to the brothels. They has been carved into some of the pave stones and were located every few blocks.

And ne of those signs gives you good luck if you rub it, it is shiny from all of the rubbing over the years!

The show pointed out (sorry) that the baths were opened to the public in 2001, I haven't seen them.

Gotta love those Romans. ;-)

SeaUrchin--Your dozing off at that particular moment reveals that you're entirely too jaded ("Yawn--been there, done that"):-). Actually, I think the guy onscreen was suggesting that each of the murals, above the clothes lockers at the baths, was outrageously and unforgettably smutty so that a bather could remember where he left his clothes! Seems like kind of a weak explanation to me...

Pompeii bath musings:

Ah, yes, I left my toga under the " " picture, but where the heck did I leave my sandals?

Oh, right, under the " " picture, I must have been distracted!! Hmmm, I'll have to make a quick sketch of that one......looks interesting....or is the picture upside down....."

Sandi, the phallic symbols were good luck charms and/or to ward off evil (cancel the evil eye). Most homes and businesses had them everywhere often on or by the front door. There is even one on a villa's hot water boiler and probably if the Pompeiians had cars they'd have them as hood ornaments :).
I'm don't think that they weren't used to direct strangers to the brothel, otherwise they'd be knocking on *alot* of doors :).

SeaUrchin: If you visit Pompeii again it's the 'Suburban Baths' and if nothing has changed since '03 it's a limited site (1 tour an hour maybe? with only so many tickets available). You can get tickets at the info booth if the site is open that day. Or perhaps an unticketed entrance with an official tourguide?
They let our ContextRome tour right in last March. I also visited it on my own 2yrs ago with a ticket.

Between the TV show and what I have read, I believe that the paintings were erotic 'tongue-in-cheek' amusing depictions. Which was mentioned as one possibilty on the TV show.
Also to help people remember where they put their clothes, it's easy to forget a number but a sexual position :)?

There was no brothel found in the area or in the baths.
The paintings are alot different than brothel paintings which show the services offered. Also if you didn't speak Latin or Greek you could just 'point and pay' :).

There are 8 paintings and I only remember 3 in detail. One shows the only Lesbian fresco ever found (IIRC). This I very much doubt was a service offered and I believe frowned upon in Roman times.
The 2nd was a 'man-man-woman' scene in that order, here the middle-man would also be frowned upon.
The 3rd was a man pleasing a woman, which I also believe was frowned upon. I base that on an insulting graffito found where one man insults another by saying he does that act.

Also has anyone ever seen this type of Roman erotic art (painting, mosaic, sculpture) anywhere else?

Then like today, society might have frowned upon those things but that doesn't mean they didn't go on, Romans had doors that closed too :). Regards, Walter

Thanks Walter, you are a font of knowledge, I would love to travel with you, you could explain everything and make it come to life.

(now don't get any ideas from the previous subject! ha)

Really, I love to read all of your posts!!

Walter--

Wasn't the bulla, worn around the neck by Roman boys as a protective charm, in the shape of a phallus? That's what I think I remember, but I'm not sure.

The historians on that show last night surprised me with a number of things they said. One was that many Romans weren't at all picky about gender distinction in romantic affairs. It's not at all that I thought all Romans were hetero, but I thought that they professed to be, that the values of the Roman Republic were "family values," though not precisely as the term is understood now, since a wife was hardly an equal partner. Even a pronounced interest in women, I understood, was viewed as unmanly.

I know, I know--Ovid and Catullus and all that. I guess part of it was the difference between being a young, unattached man and being a paterfamilias. As for women, they were always believed to be naturally capable of infinite promiscuity and even wild depravity (because they were inferior creatures), but I don't know of rumors of women actually behaving according to those inclinations, aristocratic women that is, before about 65 BC.


How's about those ContextRome tours? From your description, I infer that they're highly worthwhile--and they lead tours in the Forum and in Pompeii? If I can twist DH's arm into planning a trip for Rome, maybe I can line them up. Do they do private tours, or small groups, or large groups?

Walter (and anybody): I can recommend a good book on the subject of Roman erotica: John Clarke, Looking at Lovemaking: Constructions of Sexuality in Roman Art. Clarke is an art historian at UT Austin and a first-rate scholar, one of the best in Roman art (IMHO). It's out in pb so I imagine one could find it on Amazon. His book Houses of Roman Italy is also fantastic.