Anyone else watching "Rome: Engineering an Empire" just now?
 

I'm enjoying the History Channel show so much (except, perhaps, for the details of the Colosseum's horrors). Can one tour the remaining part of Nero's Domus Aurea?

This is really making me want to visit Rome again, and I don't know when I can. I know some callous sophisticates on this site can travel to Europe whenever they wish :-), but that's not the case for me.

Anyone know about Nero's house?

Oh, well. The show's over now, but the History Channel will run shows on Rome all this week. Wednesday there's one on Julius Caesar and Vercingetorix.

No kidding, though, has anyone been to the Domus Aurea? Details?

Yes you can tour the Domus Aurea. Reservations are required. When we were there in 2003, a guide led our group through the rooms but only to regulate the speed we were walking while we listened to an audio guide. In other words, the guide made sure we were in the right spot to listen to the audio guide describe something. There are very few surviving surfaces (frescoes, etc.), but the complex of rooms is fascinating and the audio guide very good. Because the complex is now below the surrounding ground level, the temperature inside is very cool if not chilly.

There have been other discussions on this forum about the Domus Aurea. I'd suggest you do a search for more reports.

Yes, you can tour Nero's Domus Aurea. Reservations are required because all tours are escorted. It's about 1 block from the colosseum.
http://www.pierreci.it/do/show/ticket/0000000065

Thanks for the info! Now I've got to talk DH into planning a trip for Rome!

I think I would like to start watching it - - is it a series?

By contrast, I think HBO's <b>ROME</b> is falling on its face. Such a marked contrast to Entourage and The Comeback - - which may be the best thing(s) on the small screen (until the Sopranos come back!)

Best wishes,

Rex

It's a series on Rome..I think it goes all week. I watched part of it later, the last part of it and was now watching the first part of it. Very interesting and fun to see places I had been. In my area they run it twice in the evening.

Rex--It's rebroadcasting right now (1-3 AM Eastern). This, I think, is a limited series meant as a sort of companion to the HBO series (which was originally done for the BBC). At least, the first episode showed how the set design for the HBO series was based on Forum ruins and some thoroughly researched period descriptions.

This episode is more a mesh of Roman history with key engineering feats, e.g., Caesar's speedily constructed wooden bridge across the Rhine. And both episodes have featured some impressive graphic reconstructions of, say. the Baths of Caracalla or the Domus Aurea.

But History Channel is calling this &quot;Rome week,&quot; and will run various Rome-related shows every evening. I don't know whether this engineering series has more episodes.

It's too bad the HBO series isn't doing too well, as it has Ciaran Hinds and Polly Walker and David Bamber, and other British actors who are a pleasure to watch. Also, though the two lead characters and some of the plot's events are fictional, yet there's still a fair amount of real history.

As opposed to so many movies set in Rome. And then there was an appalling series a few months ago (on ABC?), with so much nonsense: Octavian can survive to become Augustus...but first he's got to FIGHT HIS WAY OUT OF A GLADIATOR CAMP!!! That sort of thing just gets my goat--it's like doing a WW II series: &quot;Hey! I know! Let's make Hitler an ASTRONAUT!&quot;

Okay. I'll go try to calm down now. Hope you get to see this series.

I missed your post before, crefloors! The engineering series runs all week? That's good to hear!

Thanks for tipping me off to the programs about Rome. I love that kind of stuff and have set my DVR to record them for me. I do love my DVR!

Rex - I think it's a several shows put together to make a series. Last night's show reruns on Friday and Saturday.
www.historychannel.com

Yes, I posted it last night when it came on. It was very interesting!

I was very interesting, especially when the only other thing on is reruns! Tonight is what caused the fall of Rome.

It was incredible to see the amazing feats of engineering (amazing even in today's standards) and it only brought us up to the first century AD. Outstanding timeline information, very well done. As I posted last night, The History Channel is running &quot;When in Rome&quot; week with a series of different Rome-related shows.

Okay--I think I've got it straight now-- &quot;Rome: Engineering an Empire&quot; was a stand-alone 2-hr. show that ran last night and will be rebroadcast later this week. There was also a 1/2 hr. promo for this show that tied it in to the HBO series.

Since the History Channel is promoting a &quot;Rome week,&quot; more shows will be broadcast every night that are unrelated to the engineering show but that cover Roman history. For instance, on Wednesday there's a show about Julius Caesar's grinding victory over Vercingetorix, and the horrible war of attrition that led to it.

Has anyone else read, &quot;Rubicon,&quot; by Tom Holland? It covers the period during which the Roman Republic died and Empire took its place. An excellent history, I thought.

The Engineering 2-hour show will be rebroadcast later this week (either Thurs or Fri night, I forget which), and then again later that same night in the wee hours of the next morning)

I second Jean's report on the Domus Aurea. It IS very chilly in there, so be sure you bring a light jacket or you won't enjoy yourself. I've toured it twice, in 1999 and again in 2004; what is sad is that the frescoes that had been conserved and restored for the Domus Aurea's reopening (in 1999--public had not been allowed in since, I believe, the 1960s) by 2004 were starting to deteriorate. A big reason for that is the carbon dioxide of people's breath. I will be shocked if they are able to keep the Domus Aurea open to the public &quot;forever.&quot; That is one reason why they only bring in a limited number of groups each day, to try and minimize damage to the paintings.

I thought last night's show was fascinating too, especially when they went in the water tunnels under the Col.

And I didn't know about the quickly made and quickly disassembled brindge until now either.

As for the HBO series, I was disappointed in the dialogue so I have only watched the first half hour of the first show. I would rather watch history on the two History channels.

Caravaggista--That was what I wondered--whether the Domus Aurea was closed for the sake of preservation. I'm no archaeologist, so I don't know about particulars like carbon dioxide damage from respiration, but it stands to reason that making the site open to public view makes it more vulnerable.

And, SeaUrchin, the episode with Caesar's Rhine bridge is covered interestingly in &quot;Rubicon.&quot; Evidently, Julius Caesar was quite the one for making extravagant gestures designed solely to be overwhelmingly impressive: When his career was just starting, he had an elaborate villa built for himself, then waited till it was finished before declaring it &quot;not grand enough&quot; and having it pulled down and built again. That time he was extravagant with his personal fortune, but the calculated gesture paid off in the awe and admiration it inspired in the public.

&quot;Rubicon&quot; goes in depth into how the ravening ambition for glory of Rome's leading citizens conflicted directly and fatally with the Roman love of liberty. It really is a worthwhile book.

Tonight's show Roman Vice is just starting.

Julius Ceasar! Sounds like PM Bersculoni with all his villas on Sardengia. Sooooory, just couldn't resist.

Those guys were truly wicked, twisted and perverted.

They sure are enjoying describing the vices and perversions of these people in great detail :&amp;

They're getting into it a little too much, Scarlett? And historians are supposed to be so straitlaced!

Yeah, did you notice how the guy that describing the gladiators, got all excited when telling how strong they were and that they were sex symbols ? LOL
They are a bit bloodthirsty in this too..ick.

One of the onscreen commentators is Tom Holland, the guy who wrote &quot;Rubicon.&quot; He does come across as a trifle odd here, but his book is good.

On the 'Engineering' episode they cut back to a few experts to explain things.
One of those experts was Darius Arya, an archaeologist who has lead digs in the Roman Forum and Ostia Antica. He is also one of ContextRome's (Scala Reale) guides usually doing the 'Ancient Rome' and the 'Ostia Antica' tours.

Also a couple of weeks ago I saw another show on the 'History Channel' that had a past Scala Reale archaeologist/guide featured as an expert.
Regards, Walter

Now I am worried, I fell asleep during the erotic murals at the baths in Pompeii. What does this mean? Yikes. The last thing I remember was the man saying he thinks they were drawn to be....what? And I was looking at the drawing of the man with his foot in the air....

Thanks for the rec on the book, I'll &quot;amazon&quot; it now.

that's ok SeaUrchin..seen one foot...

The rerun of Engineering an Empre will be shown on Friday September 9th at 8 eastern/ 7 central

http://www.historychannel.com/rome/

sandi, too funny. I think it was a foot.......

I remember walking around Pompeii with my husband and then 12 yr old son. We came across the universal &quot;sign&quot; pointing (if you know what I mean) the way to the brothels. They has been carved into some of the pave stones and were located every few blocks.

And ne of those signs gives you good luck if you rub it, it is shiny from all of the rubbing over the years!

The show pointed out (sorry) that the baths were opened to the public in 2001, I haven't seen them.

Gotta love those Romans. ;-)

SeaUrchin--Your dozing off at that particular moment reveals that you're entirely too jaded (&quot;Yawn--been there, done that&quot;):-). Actually, I think the guy onscreen was suggesting that each of the murals, above the clothes lockers at the baths, was outrageously and unforgettably smutty so that a bather could remember where he left his clothes! Seems like kind of a weak explanation to me...

Pompeii bath musings:

Ah, yes, I left my toga under the &quot; &quot; picture, but where the heck did I leave my sandals?

Oh, right, under the &quot; &quot; picture, I must have been distracted!! Hmmm, I'll have to make a quick sketch of that one......looks interesting....or is the picture upside down.....&quot;

Sandi, the phallic symbols were good luck charms and/or to ward off evil (cancel the evil eye). Most homes and businesses had them everywhere often on or by the front door. There is even one on a villa's hot water boiler and probably if the Pompeiians had cars they'd have them as hood ornaments :).
I'm don't think that they weren't used to direct strangers to the brothel, otherwise they'd be knocking on *alot* of doors :).

SeaUrchin: If you visit Pompeii again it's the 'Suburban Baths' and if nothing has changed since '03 it's a limited site (1 tour an hour maybe? with only so many tickets available). You can get tickets at the info booth if the site is open that day. Or perhaps an unticketed entrance with an official tourguide?
They let our ContextRome tour right in last March. I also visited it on my own 2yrs ago with a ticket.

Between the TV show and what I have read, I believe that the paintings were erotic 'tongue-in-cheek' amusing depictions. Which was mentioned as one possibilty on the TV show.
Also to help people remember where they put their clothes, it's easy to forget a number but a sexual position :)?

There was no brothel found in the area or in the baths.
The paintings are alot different than brothel paintings which show the services offered. Also if you didn't speak Latin or Greek you could just 'point and pay' :).

There are 8 paintings and I only remember 3 in detail. One shows the only Lesbian fresco ever found (IIRC). This I very much doubt was a service offered and I believe frowned upon in Roman times.
The 2nd was a 'man-man-woman' scene in that order, here the middle-man would also be frowned upon.
The 3rd was a man pleasing a woman, which I also believe was frowned upon. I base that on an insulting graffito found where one man insults another by saying he does that act.

Also has anyone ever seen this type of Roman erotic art (painting, mosaic, sculpture) anywhere else?

Then like today, society might have frowned upon those things but that doesn't mean they didn't go on, Romans had doors that closed too :). Regards, Walter

Thanks Walter, you are a font of knowledge, I would love to travel with you, you could explain everything and make it come to life.

(now don't get any ideas from the previous subject! ha)

Really, I love to read all of your posts!!

Walter--

Wasn't the bulla, worn around the neck by Roman boys as a protective charm, in the shape of a phallus? That's what I think I remember, but I'm not sure.

The historians on that show last night surprised me with a number of things they said. One was that many Romans weren't at all picky about gender distinction in romantic affairs. It's not at all that I thought all Romans were hetero, but I thought that they professed to be, that the values of the Roman Republic were &quot;family values,&quot; though not precisely as the term is understood now, since a wife was hardly an equal partner. Even a pronounced interest in women, I understood, was viewed as unmanly.

I know, I know--Ovid and Catullus and all that. I guess part of it was the difference between being a young, unattached man and being a paterfamilias. As for women, they were always believed to be naturally capable of infinite promiscuity and even wild depravity (because they were inferior creatures), but I don't know of rumors of women actually behaving according to those inclinations, aristocratic women that is, before about 65 BC.


How's about those ContextRome tours? From your description, I infer that they're highly worthwhile--and they lead tours in the Forum and in Pompeii? If I can twist DH's arm into planning a trip for Rome, maybe I can line them up. Do they do private tours, or small groups, or large groups?

Walter (and anybody): I can recommend a good book on the subject of Roman erotica: John Clarke, Looking at Lovemaking: Constructions of Sexuality in Roman Art. Clarke is an art historian at UT Austin and a first-rate scholar, one of the best in Roman art (IMHO). It's out in pb so I imagine one could find it on Amazon. His book Houses of Roman Italy is also fantastic.