Any advice....Driving on snowy mountain roads
 

We are going on our first skiing trip. My husband never drove in snow and never on narrow winding roads. We come from a flat hot country, the maximum we have to deal with is wet (might be slippery) roads after rain. Any advice for us?

>Any advice for us?

1) just don´t drive (it depends very much on where you go - maybe driving is not necessary)

2) If driving is necessary, make sure you have winter tires.

3) have snow chains in the trunk, and know how and when to put them on. If the conditions require putting on snow chains, drive slowly and take them off immediately after you reached better roads.

Hi HAD,

Are you the one going to the Dolomites?

Some driving tips:

- Rent a 4 wheel drive vehicle with winter tires. It doesn't need to be big (in fact, lighter cars can be better)

- Leave lots of room between yourself and the car ahead of you

- Shift down instead of braking

- If your car starts sliding, put your foot on the clutch to get more control

- Don't drive too fast but driving too slow won't get you up the mountain either

- Avoid driving in snowstorms at all costs

- Practice driving on snow in a deserted parking lot.

If you do start to skid, turn the steering wheel in the same direction as the skid to control it; don't fight against the skid.

Were I you I'd avoid doing it entirely. Either narrow winding roads (for someone not used to them) or snowy roads (for someone not used to them) could be problematic, and the two together are going to very stressful.

I'd choose a resort that's accessible by train, and take advantage of public transportation or just walk around town. Ski towns are typically small and not difficult to negotiate on foot. U.S. resorts often operate free bus systems to help people get around.

Hi HAD,

I don't think that a narrow, winding road in a foreign country is the best place to learn to drive in snow and ice.

Are you sure that you can't get there by train or bus?

Best of luck to you.

((I))

Treat steering wheel and all pedals as though they have an egg on them - being heavy-handed/footed is a sure way to lose control.

To avoid wheelspin when starting/climbing use a higher gear than you would in dry conditions.

But best of all - don't drive, let a local do it.

As someone that lived in the mountains of Colorado for about 10 years I can tell you that even for people used to driving in snowy conditions, mountain driving is a whole different ballgame.

It is not the smartest thing to try to learn to drive in snow on mountain roads. If you are going to a ski resort, I can assure you that there is a bus or train going there.

If you MUST drive, then yes get a 4wd, but remember that it doesn't matter if you have a 60 wheel drive, if you hit ice, all bets are off.

Do not make sudden movements. Slowly apply brakes, use the engine for braking when possible, start off slowly, feel the road. And yes, try to find an empty parking lot and practice spinning.

Remember, hitting a snow bank is far better than driving off the side of a mountain.

To add to the doom-mongers.

I've never found a ski resort in Europe where you needed a car.

If you're clever enough to have found one, you're clever enough to cancel the booking and change to the 99.9% of resorts you can get a bus or train to.

On the couple of occasions I've conned myself into thinking there's been a good reason for driving to a resort, it's been a terrible mistake. Apart from the sheer awfulness of learning to cope with snow for the first time on mountain roads (the nice, flat roads of Northern Sweden or North America are FAR safer places to acquire that skill), you'll never forget your first attempt to put chains on.

If you've never ski-ed before, you've got enough new experiences waiting for you without adding one that's unpleasant, really, really dangerous and completely unnecessary.

Hadeel - Don't even think of driving, that's my advice :)

The only part of your journey where a car might be a bonus is Ortisei-Milan - but even then you can do that conveniently by public transport, stopping off en route if you choose (- e.g Trento, Verona ...)

Ortisei and the whole of Val Gardena is well served by the ski buses (- normally free or with a minimal charge). The same will be true of Cortina. You won't use your car in those resorts. Save yourselves the expense.

Spend the money instead on a taxi transfer Cortina-Ortise as I suggested.

If you still want to hire a car for the last leg of your trip, there is a car-hire company near Ortisei (- either Avis or Hertz, I forget).

If the roads are icy in Ortisei, it's best to take the bus (- or taxi) down to Bolzano and rent from there.

Hope this helps ...

Steve

My advice? Dont be a backseat driver, just let him drive.

A few things:

1. Take the car to an open area and just gun it and slam on the brakes and skid all around just to know how it feels to slide and how the car handles. This is a rite of passage for most northern US kids, when their dad takes them out to a giant open parking lot during the first snowfall and let them really feel how it is.

2. Drive like there is a seven layer wedding cake strapped to the top of the car. It takes twice as long to stop, twice as long to get up to speed, and take the corners very slowly.

3. Don't put your brakes on when going through a curve. The best way to negotiate a turn in snow is to go into it slowly and accelerate through it. Less slippage this way.

4. Try to rent a 4-wheel-drive or all-wheel-drive if possible. Much easier to drive.

5. They drive cars onto the ice at hockey games for giveaway promotions. So you see, you can drive on anything (well, flat at least) if you are going slow enough.

>I'd choose a resort that's accessible by train, and take advantage of public transportation or just walk around town.

There is an excellent bus network in the Dolomites, including most of the pass roads - most routes are served hourly or similar.

If there is ANY other way you can get there, other than driving, please consider it.

Driving in winter, let alone on snowy, narrow, mountainous roads, is not to be taken lightly.

It takes time and experience to learn how to deal with these conditions.

I was born in Illinois (USA) and I hated, absolutely hated, driving in winter. Accidents are much more likely to happen under these conditions.

Add blizzard conditions, and your best bet is to let someone else do the driving.

Just DON'T!!!! and I say this from experience.

DH and I are Canadian, and from Newfoundland no less, very experienced driving in snow so we were pretty cocky when we hit our first Italian mountain road in the Appenines.

Well, we learned our lesson fast! They don't plough the way they do back home (down to the blacktop) and they don't sand and salt they way they do in North America. And the Italian drivers don't slow down they way they do back home....

Just take the train or bus.

Unlike the others, I encourage you to drive those mountain roads.

And because I did not spoil your vacation plans, I expect that you write down your testament immediately and appoint me as your sole heir.

It's a deal, isn't it?

We do road trips in europe all the time. And, growing up in NYC, I have been driving on snow/ice for 30 years.

I would not even consider what you're about to do. Driving in bad weather/poor road conditions is a skil it takes time to learn - and even then either the black ice - or idiots who don;t know how to drive - may well get you. Learning in a foreign country on mountain roads is madness.

I can give you all the advice you want - when the car loses traction - you still won;t know what to do.

Take public transit.

What a bunch of pansies.

Just take it slow and try to stay in one gear higher than normal (i.e. start in 2nd). It isn't that hard. Keep your mind on the road (gag the kids if you have to) and it is perfectly reasonable.

I took my driver's exam in a pretty steady snowstorm and haven't looked back since. If you are a good driver, not easily intimidated or distracted, you should be okay.

travelgourmet..

Thanks for bringing some common sense to this discussion. I drive in the mountains every other weekend in winter, and it takes no degree in rocket science.

The resorts the OP plans to visit are connected by major roads and not "narrow winding roads", and the biggest "threat" will be those other thousands of motorists, i.e. heavy traffic esp. during high season on weekends.

So public transportion will remain a good idea, but not because it would require more than a regular working brain to handle driving on snow with properly equipped cars.

This looks even more dangerous than I thought it would be. My husband keeps assuring me that he can drive anywhere. Ok then, driving is out of the question. We will then just rent a car in Bolzano. Thanks

The Europeans keep their roads much more clear of snow than their American counterparts. They are very good at getting out and clearing the roads as soon as the snow stops falling. I do agree with the suggestion not to drive when it snows, but my experience over 30 years of driving in the German/Swiss/Austrian Alps is that as soon as the snowstorm ends, you usually end-up with a beautiful clear day. I've driven 9 passenger vans through many of the higher passes and been caught in a snow squall.

The secret is to keep focused, maintain an even speed, let the chucklehead locals riding your a.. to pass and be sure you have plenty of washer fluid. Keep a safe distance from the car in front of you because that is generally who/what you would hit if you lose control. They use lots of chemicals and salt on the roads which does keep the path clear, but the spray will quickly muck up your windscreen. Last winter I foolishly allowed the reservoir to dry up and had to stop the van a few times to gather snow which I used to wash-off the windows.

Driving through the mountains has never been a problem for us, but in the lower elevations where the Autobahns and Autostradas lie Winter can often bring freezing rain or the dreaded "Wintry Mix". Then you can encounter problems mostly because you can never be sure what the guy next to or in front of or behind you is gonna do. Once traffic starts to slow you can have a real problem re-starting your momentum on ice. If there's a hill ahead you just may have some real problems. But again, once that weather event ends the road crews will be out and have the mess cleaned-up in a jiffy.

Having witnessed the extremely poor driving on "winding" roads in New York state, where even in o.k conditions everyone was going far far far below max speed, coming to a (almost) complete standstill at every corner, I would not think it would be wise for those folks to drive on swow in the Alps.

You have to count with situations when you are on a steep grade and caught by a snowstorm.

This means, you need snow chains. No chance with winter tyres and 4WD. (BTW, you will be fined when you try driving without chains where chains are mandatory.)

It starts that you have to rent or buy snow chains which fit the tyre size of your rental car.

Then you have to apply the snow chains. Imagine heavy snowfall, darkness, ice-cold temperatures, gusty winds, stiff fingers and then you have to handle those tricky chains. Congratulations!

As someone that actually LIVED in the high country (my house was at 8,000 feet+) I cannot count the number of times I had to rescue flatlanders who thought they could handle mountain roads in the winter. Then there are those that rescue isn't an option, waiting for spring to dig out the bodies is the option.

Guess what, I don't care how good the plows are, black ice sticks around. Going down a steep grade is fun no matter what, add in some occasional slick spots and it gets nutty.

Oh, and let's not forget the wackos that think that because they have a 4wd they are invulnerable. You cannot gauge when a whiteout will hit. If you have to do it, like I did, then different story. If you don't, then it is idiotic. You are not just endangering yourself, you are endangering other.

An avid skier myself and having experienced winter roads my whole life, I will tell you a small piece of advice - use your same skiing instincts and techniques when driving... the concepts are the same. Gliding with an ice skid and knowing to gently pull out has helped me several times.

>Ok then, driving is out of the question. We will then just rent a car in Bolzano. Thanks

For what purpose?

If you mean for the last couple of km to the resort, that's what everybody was warning you against. The route OVER the Alps is not the problem - main roads like the Brenner pass (the No. 1 Alps crossing, actually) are 6 lane motorways, not some winding mountain roads. It's when you get off the main road and go up the side valley to the skiing resort that you may encounter difficult driving conditions.

if driving a manual transmission car, always start from a stop in second gear rather than first if the roads are slippery. less torque, less slippy.

It's true it's not rocket science. But it IS science, and you DO need to learn it before you throw yourself out there in totally unknown conditions.

You don't need a car for a ski resort vacation in the Dolomites. It could so easily ruin your vacation to have one. WHY would you do this? Vacations are supposed to be fun, not stressful.

This post brings up several exciting driving experiences in snowy mountainous areas in Europe, but I think my favorite was that time in the Dolomites, near Val Gardena. I think it was my last such drive.

My friend from Idaho, who'd driven often in ski areas like Sun Valley, was driving my car. Fortunately, as if I'd been driving we'd all be dead.

The car went out of control, hit a sturdy stone wall, which richocheted the car to the other side of this narrow mountain road. We did a 360 degree spin, then a 180, and we ended up sliding backward down the road.

It was very exciting. The only damage was to one fender. And my nerves. Never again!

..as another said, be sure you will is up to date! In all seriousness, you would be driving a rental car (ie one which is not familiar to you), on roads you dont know, in winter conditions all of which is challenging BUT if you havent driven on snow forget it!!! I grew up in NE (CT and VT) and have been driving since I was 17 and obviously in snow. ..tales of black ice, snow squalls, gravel roads, cars in ditches pre cell phones(but in VT a number of pick ups seem to come with winches) ect and these incidents occured on roads that I knew and in cars which were familiar to me. Please get public transport to the resort or hire a car!

I never argued that taking public transportation might be a more sensible or less stressful decision.

But since I live near the mountains and drive there regularly, I find it hard to comprehend why some posters make such a major fuss out of it.

True, you have to adjust your driving, and your car has to be properly equipped for the road.
The same applies for driving on a slippery wet road covered with leaves in Ireland, or for taking the right exit at a 12 lane interstate junction in L.A.

Accidents can happen in either location, but if someone from England was warning someone from Belgium the advice to rent a car in California because those freeways were sooo scary and there were always accidents caused by careless drivers changing lanes last minute, you as a local would try to put it back into perspective, too, I assume.

Delete "the advice" in last paragraph. Thanks ;)

Cowboy, I've driven on those freeways in L.A. as well as on snowy mountain roads in Europe, and there's just no comparison--partly because of the thousand foot drop beside the narrow mountain road.

I agree with peg, Cowboy. I've been driving in Europe most of my life. I have absolutely no problem with zooming around Rome or Paris, winding my way up through the Cevennes on the Michelin "dangerous" roads (the ones with the red dotted lines), or tearing around leaf-soaked rainy, tortuous roads in the Dordogne. I grew up in New England, learned to drive in snow and ice. My sister lived in Colorado for 25 years and I visited her there and drove in the mountains in winter there quite a few times.

I would NEVER rent a car in the Dolomites in winter even with all this experience. It's just not the same thing.

I think it's a somewhat common feature with Fodors' forums to blow things totally out of proportion.
It's either "no problem at all" or "you're gonna die".
Just because YOU were having problems or did not like to drive in the Alps, it cannot be stated as a god-given fact that any driver with half a brain and a well equipped car could not drive in the mountains.
If someone was really not able to drive safely on a winter road in the mountains, I would definetely not want a ride with that person on a sunny day in the flatlands.

Cowboy,

Ok, so you seem to be in the 'no problem at all camp' on this one. But it isn't about intelligence and has only a limited amount to do with car equipment. What it is about is experience of the particular conditions involved.

<i>But since I live near the mountains and drive there regularly, I find it hard to comprehend why some posters make such a major fuss out of it. </i>

cowboy, this says it all. Of course you have no problem with it yourself -- because you've done it zillions of time and therefore have tons of experience. But for OP, it would be the VERY FIRST TIME driving in snow and ice. I'm with the group that says it would be nuts for a first-timer.

If you need to ask then you shouldn't do it.

The most important thing is to take it easy. Make sure you are comfortable with the vehicle, and that you have snow tires. And when you need to brake, do so gently and tap them, if you hit the brake hard on ice you'll slide - so go easy.

Four wheel drive is okay for snow but it also can make some people a little overconfident and they drive too fast for conditions, so the best thing is just to take it easy and try to get off the road before it gets dark because the temperatures drop and make icy conditions worse.

You'll be fine!

Cowboy: Just out of curiosity, where do you live?