And with over 50 people being murdered a day in the USA, are you certain that they're all citizens of the USA and not foreigners?

Sadly the US does have a high murder rate. I'd like it to be otherwise, but there's no disputing the statistics.

But RufusT also makes a very good point. The Boston Globe a few years ago printed the picture of the victim and a couple of sentences about the circumstances of every murder in Boston for that year - as I recall, about 100 at the time. I took the time to read every one and was amazed to learn that virtually every one was in some way connected to drugs and/or gangs. I have no reason to believe that it's any different elsewhere. So, while the statistics are what they are, the underlying truth is that the "average" person really has a very low probability of ever being affected.

Jimbo--you obviously are not a statistician. No, I am not 4 times more likely to be murdered in the US than in Italy. On average, it may be 4 times, but for the criminal population it is much greater than 4 times, and for the non-criminal population much less than 4 times. Since I'm not a criminal, my chances of being murdered are probably somewhat more likely than in Italy, but certainly not as much as 4 times more likely.

Rufus

It's such a joy to read your level-headed, unbiased opinions. Do you think that all the murders in Italy are free from criminal elements too? I'm certain many murders in Italy are within the world of crime, so, on average, purely statistically, I'm wholly justified in suggesting that you're four times more likely to be murdered in the US than in Italy.

Just look at all the schoolkids who can get hold of guns so easily. It's hardly surprising is it?

Still, as you defend your property with firearms, you have to expect this.

RufusTFirefly, I still wonder how you didn't get killed in the war of Freedonia :-)))

"It's such a joy to read your level-headed, unbiased opinions. Do you think that all the murders in Italy are free from criminal elements too? I'm certain many murders in Italy are within the world of crime, so, on average, purely statistically, I'm wholly justified in suggesting that you're four times more likely to be murdered in the US than in Italy."

Mark Twain was right - there are lies, damned lies and statistics. People only start spouting statistic when they supprt their agenda and when they wanr ro stop any real understanding of the phenomenon. In other words, they don't want people to do exactly what Rufus has done - to show that the statistics are meaningless because they don't consider the realities.

The fact is that if you are white and are not a criminal/gang member you have very little chance of being murdered in the US. This may not fit with some peoples' anti-gun agenda, but it is the reality. The anti-gun people try hard to hide this fact because it weakwns the emotional appeal of their position.

>Mark Twain was right - there are lies, damned lies and statistics.<

I believe it was Benjamin Disraeli.

Platzer

The undeniable reality is that the USA has the fourth highest murder rate (that's RATE, not numbers Rufus, there's a difference) in the whole WORLD. Regardless of who forms the majority of the victims of these crimes, I fail to see why a lot of you posters here seem almost PROUD of the fact that criminals in your country are killing thousands of people each year.

The fact is your children can gain access to guns and kill each other. That's not something to be proud of.

Jimbo--the issue as originally raised to me was MY chance of being murdered in the USA. "Nevertheless, the FBI suggest that you are FOUR times more likely to be murdered in the US than in Italy." So it does make a difference who is murdering whom. And as a non-criminal, I don't have a four times higher chance of being murdered in the USA than in Italy.

And the USA does not have the 4th highest murder rate of all nations in the world. Not even close to the top ten.

MURDER RATES, LATE-1990s COUNTRY PER 100,000
(1) Columbia 84.4
(2) El Salvador 50.2
(3) Puerto Rico 41.8
(4) Brazil 32.5
(5) Albania 28.2
(6) Venezuela 25.0
(7) Russian Federation 18.0
(8) Ecuador 15.9
(9) Mexico 15.3
(10) Panama 14.4