Another Myth Exploded
 

How many times have people said here that no matter what you do, people will be able to tell that you are American? Nonense, as this incident proves:

" they didn't realize the intruders were Americans, he said."

http://kstp.com/article/view/131610/

An interesting and tragic story, but does one anecdote concerning an incident that occurred in the wee hours of the morning involving people who seem like they were a bit disoriented really prove much of anything in a broad, general way?

An unfortunate and tragic incident.

Second flyboy. Notwithstanding what the court official said, the killer didn't misdiagnose the man's nationality, so much as his intent. If you were to see someone apparently forcing their way into your home at 4:30 a.m, you aren't going to call the Tourist bureau.

It is, indeed, a horrific and terrible tragedy.

Tis reminds me of a similar story here few years ago. A young Japanese man, apparently lost, knocked on a door of a private house. It was late at night and the tourist did not speak very good English, the homeowner thought that he was on some kind of drugs and shot the man. I believe it was either New Orleans or Houston.
Sad cases because you can't really blame either side, but the kids are gone and the homeowners have to live with their mistake for the rest of their lives. I can't say for sure, but I think the homeowner here was never charged with anything serious just some kind of a weapons charge.

"Sad cases because you can't really blame either side,"

When it happened in the US, it was the fault of those violence crazed Americans. When it happens in Italy, it is an "unfortunate accident."

" Notwithstanding what the court official said, the killer didn't misdiagnose the man's nationality, so much as his intent."

Nonsense. Failing to identify the victim as American (or at least not Italian) is the cause. The man may have misunderstood the kid's intention, but that is only because he failed to identify him as American (or at least not Italian) and therefore unable to understand what he was saying.

Main main point is still valid: the assertion that Americans are always easily identifyiable as such is proved wrong by this incident. In logic, it only takes on instance to prove premiss false.

What makes the difference between an "unfortunate accident", and what happens in the US is huge.
It is an accident, because it doesn't happen every day. Try saying that about the states!
I am an American, and proud to be so, but you have to admit that our country is extremely violent.
The point of what happened in Florence is this. This kid was drunk and followed an 18 year old girl into a dark park at 4 in the morning. Her father should've called the police instead of handling it himself, but the boy was wrong because he was there and intruding. We all know when you are in a foreign country, you should behave and pay more attention to where you are and what you're doing.
It was a mistake on both of their parts. Hopefully someone will learn something from this tragedy.

I want to add that the comment about the father not realizing the boy was American.
This was said because here in Italy we have lots of Eastern Europeans coming over and breaking into peoples homes. Therefore we have a lot of people afraid of them.
The father was saying that if he had known he was an American, he would've known that he was a lost tourist, not a criminal. That's how Italians look at Americans- friendly tourists.
Which is the exact opposite of what their opinions are of Albanians.

"It is an accident, because it doesn't happen every day. Try saying that about the states!"

Fine, how about specifying the dozens of incidents in America where tourists are killed because they don't understand the language. Or even where Americans are murdere by other Americans because they were misrtaken as intruders.

You you say it happens everyday, you shouldn't have any problem coming up with hundreds.

It doesn't happen every day in Italy!!!!!!

May I respectfully suggest that we stop making political capital about this sad incident and let it drop?

AAFrequentFlyer, the Japanese boy was an highschool exchange student in Baton Rouge. If I remember correctly he was going to a friend's house for a Holloween party. Only he knocked on the door of a wrong house which also had some holloween decoration on the door. He was in a holloween costume.

Thanks for refreshing my memory. Nevertheless, both incidents are sad.

This reminds me of my big mistake just few months ago around Christmas time. A friend and I went to a party and another friend of mine lived just a short distance from the first party, so we decided to stop by and have a Christmas drink with them as well. We called from the first party to check if they were home and they told us just to come in as they were in the back yard having a little party of their own. Well it was dark, my friends live on a side street with little street lighting and it was some time ago since I visited their house. We pulled up to the house, walk over to the front door and just walk in. Imagine our surprise and even bigger surprise of the owners of the house who were watching TV in the living room. They were not our friends!
Thankfully everything worked out and we both got a laugh out of it, but things could have turned ugly very quickly in a situation like this.
Our friends house was few numbers down the street.

Let's please let this drop. It's sad, no matter what the circumstances were. Political/social posturing makes it even worse.

Melissa--it doesn't happen every day in the USA either. That's why it is such a big story on the rare occasions that it does happen.

Platzer

To speak of misdiagnosed intent is not to justify the reaction of the homeowner. I was making the point that reactions based on fear aren't very rational; anyone willing to pull out a knife, even when they see what appears to be a thief, isn't likely much of an analytical thinker - no matter what they might claim afterward.

Your respondents, not to mention myself, are calling this incident tragic not in an effort to excuse the man wielding the knife, but in recognition of the fact that a man both innocent and young died, far from home. This is tragic for him regardless of his nationality or why he was where he was at the time, or what his killer's defense is - or isn't.

His tragedy also eclipses any partisan outrage we might normally have about this or that aspect of how this or that nationality is perceived.

I was just saying that murder happens in the US every day, while it doens't here.
It is a very sad and tragic event however and I would love to drop the subject.

First, the USA has a lot more people than Italy, so you would expect more murders. Second, the majority of murders in the USA involve criminals murdering other criminals. So if you aren't in the drug trade or other crime related business, your chances of being murdered in the USA are not very high. I've actually managed to survive over 50 years myself, and no one I've ever been connected with has been murdered.

Nevertheless, the FBI suggest that you are FOUR times more likely to be murdered in the US than in Italy.

And with over 50 people being murdered a day in the USA, are you certain that they're all citizens of the USA and not foreigners?

Sadly the US does have a high murder rate. I'd like it to be otherwise, but there's no disputing the statistics.

But RufusT also makes a very good point. The Boston Globe a few years ago printed the picture of the victim and a couple of sentences about the circumstances of every murder in Boston for that year - as I recall, about 100 at the time. I took the time to read every one and was amazed to learn that virtually every one was in some way connected to drugs and/or gangs. I have no reason to believe that it's any different elsewhere. So, while the statistics are what they are, the underlying truth is that the "average" person really has a very low probability of ever being affected.

Jimbo--you obviously are not a statistician. No, I am not 4 times more likely to be murdered in the US than in Italy. On average, it may be 4 times, but for the criminal population it is much greater than 4 times, and for the non-criminal population much less than 4 times. Since I'm not a criminal, my chances of being murdered are probably somewhat more likely than in Italy, but certainly not as much as 4 times more likely.

Rufus

It's such a joy to read your level-headed, unbiased opinions. Do you think that all the murders in Italy are free from criminal elements too? I'm certain many murders in Italy are within the world of crime, so, on average, purely statistically, I'm wholly justified in suggesting that you're four times more likely to be murdered in the US than in Italy.

Just look at all the schoolkids who can get hold of guns so easily. It's hardly surprising is it?

Still, as you defend your property with firearms, you have to expect this.

RufusTFirefly, I still wonder how you didn't get killed in the war of Freedonia :-)))

"It's such a joy to read your level-headed, unbiased opinions. Do you think that all the murders in Italy are free from criminal elements too? I'm certain many murders in Italy are within the world of crime, so, on average, purely statistically, I'm wholly justified in suggesting that you're four times more likely to be murdered in the US than in Italy."

Mark Twain was right - there are lies, damned lies and statistics. People only start spouting statistic when they supprt their agenda and when they wanr ro stop any real understanding of the phenomenon. In other words, they don't want people to do exactly what Rufus has done - to show that the statistics are meaningless because they don't consider the realities.

The fact is that if you are white and are not a criminal/gang member you have very little chance of being murdered in the US. This may not fit with some peoples' anti-gun agenda, but it is the reality. The anti-gun people try hard to hide this fact because it weakwns the emotional appeal of their position.

>Mark Twain was right - there are lies, damned lies and statistics.<

I believe it was Benjamin Disraeli.

Platzer

The undeniable reality is that the USA has the fourth highest murder rate (that's RATE, not numbers Rufus, there's a difference) in the whole WORLD. Regardless of who forms the majority of the victims of these crimes, I fail to see why a lot of you posters here seem almost PROUD of the fact that criminals in your country are killing thousands of people each year.

The fact is your children can gain access to guns and kill each other. That's not something to be proud of.

Jimbo--the issue as originally raised to me was MY chance of being murdered in the USA. "Nevertheless, the FBI suggest that you are FOUR times more likely to be murdered in the US than in Italy." So it does make a difference who is murdering whom. And as a non-criminal, I don't have a four times higher chance of being murdered in the USA than in Italy.

And the USA does not have the 4th highest murder rate of all nations in the world. Not even close to the top ten.

MURDER RATES, LATE-1990s COUNTRY PER 100,000
(1) Columbia 84.4
(2) El Salvador 50.2
(3) Puerto Rico 41.8
(4) Brazil 32.5
(5) Albania 28.2
(6) Venezuela 25.0
(7) Russian Federation 18.0
(8) Ecuador 15.9
(9) Mexico 15.3
(10) Panama 14.4