Another Italy itinerary question
 

Fodor's folks were extremely helpful in steering me on a UK adventure last year,so I am hoping for some help with Italy next year.;-)

We have 2 to 2 1/2 weeks in May. I have been to Florence (my "I must see it before I die" first European trip.) I want to see Rome and Venice, Ravenna if possible, and maybe Tuscany. I am an avid museum, art gallery, ancient sites seeker. The Tuscany part would be more about drinking wine and relaxing. I am thinking 5 nights in Rome, 3 nights in Venice. How can link these together? Would like to take trains into and out of the cities, maybe a car in the country? Also, it seems easier to get flights to Milan than Rome, or am I crazy?

Thanks for your thoughts on this!

Fly into Milan and go directly to Venice. Spend 4 nights in Venice, then rent a car and drive to your base in Tuscany (stopping Ravenna) and spend 4-5 nights in Tuscany. Drive to Chiusi, drop off car, and take the train to Rome, spend the rest of your time in Rome.

Just a start!

I've never researched the matter, but it's hard to imagine there are more international flights into Milan than Rome. Where are you flying from?

>>How can link these together?<<
Rome and Venice? I'm not sure I understand the question.

Anyway, let's say you flew into Rome and spent your 5 nights there. On the last day there, you could rent a car to drive to Tuscany and tour. (Suggest you rent on a Saturday or Sunday -- much easier to leave Rome on those days.)

Then you could drive to the Florence, drop the car off, and train to Venice. Spend your three days there, and fly out of Venice.

Or you could do the trip in reverse, flying into Venice and out of Rome. I prefer Rome first and Venice last.

No reason to include Milan,just fly to Venice and start there.
Then train to Florence and get your car as you depart. Do not commit to a Venice departure until you know the flights hours---many are brutal connections in Europe gateway cities.

Hi e,

I would fly into Venice and then follow ekc's suggestion:
"Spend 4 nights in Venice, then rent a car and drive to your base in Tuscany (stopping Ravenna) and spend 4-5 nights in Tuscany. Drive to Chiusi, drop off car, and take the train to Rome, spend the rest of your time in Rome".

Visit Orvieto and Ostia Antica while in Rome.

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

The question is is ot possible to fly to Milan and fly back from Rome? I think that is weigh more expensive, but would make things much easier. But there is a really fast train in Italy which connects the bigger cities like Milan and Rome. Look here http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...003f16f90aRCRD

That's called open jaw and shouldn't be much more expensive.

>>>I think that is weigh more expensive, but would make things much easier.<<<

No, it's not way more expensive to fly into one city and home from another. Just click the multi-city function when searching flights. I would not waste a vacation day traveling back to Milan. If Delta has round trip flights to Venice for $1200 and round trip flights to Rome for $1150, your flight into Venice and home from Rome will price at about $1175, cheaper than the train to backtrack.

Would probably be flying on Delta or American due to mileage programs- I don't think either flies into Venice? It would be great to fly out of Miami, but usually we get routed through JFK. Will definitely look at open jaw- thanks.

ekc- That is the kind of thing I was thinking about. Now have to find out what Chuisi is. ;-)

Thanks for the train links!

My first thought in Tuscany is Sienna- should I be having a second thought?

Delta flies into and out of Venice--also Air France their partner.

Okay, life took a detour preventing this year's trip. Now looking at next year and have two small changes:

Still want to see Rome and Venice- side trips to Ravenna and Herculaneum/Pompei, if possible. But switching from Tuscany to a relaxing stay on one of the northern Italy lakes.

Still thinking of open jaw- into Rome leaving Milan. We have 2 1/2 to 3 weeks.

E,
Hope the detour is now over and you can visit Italy!

If visiting Pompeii and Herculaneum is now a priority, you might want to consider the relaxing time on the Amalfi Coast rather than the northern lakes. The Amalfi Coast is definitely worth 4 or 5 days and May can be a pretty good time to visit. Not as crowded as the summer months, but still good weather.

In addition to Pompeii and Herculaneum, you could visit Paestum for Greek temples. I loved this site enough that I got interested in Greek ruins and visited Sicily last year for more.

Pompeii and Herculaneum could be visited on the way to/from the coast with proper planning. Lots of options for sightseeing and relaxing on the Amalfi.

I'm only recommending this based on your desire to see these two sites, not because the northern lakes are not just as beautiful and nice in May!

Only you can choose what will be most interesting to you.

arrive Milan
3 nts Lago Maggiore, or other (Maggiore is just 1 hr by train from Milan)
4 nts Venice
train or fly to Naples
5 nts Amalfi Coast
5 nts Rome

That might leave you a couple nights for a stay in a small Tuscan hilltown (not Siena which is a beautiful city), depending on whether your 3 weeks includes flight days.

Just one of many possibilities! Happy planning.

I think putting the Lakes at the end of your trip makes sense if you are flying out of Milan. Also, if you are touring Pompei, it is best to go as early as possible when the weather is cooler.

I am mystified by the above report that the lakes are not as beautiful in May. That is when all the flowers bloom. The lakes are famous for their gardens.

I would want a full 3 weeks for a trip that had Pompeii, Rome, Ravenna and Venice in it, plus a wrap up on a lake, but others could probably do it in 2.5 or even 2.

This is probably what I would do:

Fly into Rome and train directly to Pompei (or fly into Naples and take a taxi to Pompei)

Spend 2 nights in Pompeii (I would probably try to see Herculaneum my first day of arrival.

On my way to Rome, store luggage in Naples train station, see archeological museum and other sights in Naples, retrieve luggage, go to Rome

Rome for X nights

Train to Ravenna 2 nights (including the short trip to Classe for the basilica there)

Venice for X nights

Lake (probably Lago di Como)

Taxi transfer to Malpensa to fly home.

So doing a day trip to Herculaneum from Rome is not recommended? I am going to give up on that idea.

sandralist: Your itinerary is close to what I was thinking. You can take a train from Rome to Ravenna? From the route maps, it looks like Ravenna is off the beaten path.

I did visit Locarno many years ago and suspect that the lake and towns of Lago di Como are similar?

Sandralist made a nice plan, but after a long flight, I would not try to visit Herculaneum on arrival day, especially coming from Rome. Herculaneum is so interesting and lovely, I would want to be rested to enjoy it more. Also, I would add at least one more night for some kind of trip (by ferry is beautiful) down the AC. As a matter of fact, given your intense interest in ancient sites, you might want to stay another day and see Paestum.

Delta flies from JFK non-stop to Milan, to Venice and to Rome

Delta partners/code shares with Alitalia, KLM and Air France.
If you are using air miles book as early as possible.
If there are no non stops flights from Miami you can either connect at JFK or in Europe

For a train from Rome to Ravenna, you take a fast train to Bologna, then catch a slow train from Bologna to Ravenna. The trip takes about four hours.

>>>So doing a day trip to Herculaneum from Rome is not recommended? I am going to give up on that idea.<<<

It's not difficult at all if that's what you want to do. The fast train from Rome to Naples (70 minutes) and switch to the local Circumvesuviana train (in the basement of the train station) to Ercolano Scavi stop (15 minutes - 2-3€). Herculaneum is a couple of blocks walk downhill from the station.

Life throws all sorts of detours in one's way, but we are *finally* going to Italy. Interestingly, sandralist's itinerary is very close to what I am thinking. I have been trimming and trimming and have come up with:

Fly into Rome- 5 nights (actually have reservations here)

Rent a car and drive through Umbria (3 nights) to Ravenna (2-3 nights)and drive to Lake Como for 4 nights.

Fly out of Milan (have tickets).

I gave up on Venice for this trip in order to make my travel partner, one who prefers wide open spaces to museums and old churches with mosaics, happy.

1. Do you think driving this route is preferable to taking trains?

2. I'm pretty set on Lake Como, but I'm not sure about Umbria. Does anyone have a suggestion for a great town for a couple of days stay with day trips? I was looking at Assisi and Perugia...

Suggestion- you will need a car for Umbria and I suggest you keep it at least until Ravenna. I would plan on spending an entire day driving/exploring between your base in Umbria and Ravenna, with a stop in Gubbio for sure. You could then turn in the car in Ravenna, spend a night or two, and then train to Lake Como.


In Umbria, I like to base near Bavagna. Spello would also be good. Both seems very central for exploring the region.

I would actually take a night from Ravenna (and maybe from Lake Como also) and add to Umbria. It's a region that just seems to deserve more time than a few nights.

If you're not sure about Umbria, maybe you should consider Le Marche. The landscape is similar to Tuscany and Umbria. It's a long, narrow region, whose western border is the Apennine mountain chain, and whose eastern border is the Adriatic Sea. In between is a beautiful region of hills, castles, and walled towns. In many places you can see the sea and snow-capped (except in summer) mountains at the same time.

The best-known town in Le Marche is Urbino, which is a Renaissance hill town with one of Italy's most beautiful ducal palaces. It may not be the best town for a base, because of the long drive up and down the hill on which it sits, but I can suggest several towns that would be good bases for day trips.

Cagli, near the Umbrian border, is convenient for day trips both to Umbria and in Le Marche. The closest Umbrian town of any size is Gubbio. It would also be a good base for visiting Urbino, and for visits to several castle towns and medieval monasteries. North of there, Le Marche borders the eastern (and less touristy) part of Tuscany.

Further south, also near the Umbrian border, Camerino is a very nice but little-known hill town, which was the base of the Duchy of Spoleto in the middle ages. It also is on top of a fairly high hill, but there are several nearby towns in the valley that would be good bases. My favorites are Fiuminata and Pioraco, but there are also many agriturismo-type lodgings in the open countryside. This area is within easy reach of Assisi, Spoleto, Spello, Norcia, and Perugia, but there is also plenty to see and do in the surrounding areas of Le Marche.

If you want to be nearer the coast, the area around Senigallia, Fano, and the immediate interior is a good choice. Senigallia has probably the nicest beach on this stretch of the Adriatic, and is also a very lively and attractive town, that's not primarily a "beach town". It has some of Italy's best restaurants, including two that have two Michelin stars apiece (Madonnina del Pescatore and Uliassi). In the interior, anything near Mondavio, Monterado (where there's an inn in a castle) and Corinaldo (a jewel of a walled town) would be very convenient for day trips to Urbino and charming small towns and castles.

Another coastal town I really like is Torre di Palme, much further south, a tiny walled town on a cliff overlooking the sea. It's convenient to Ascoli Piceno, and other interesting places like Offida and Urbisaglia.

Thank you both for some great ideas to ponder!

zoecat: How long do you think one would need at Como? I have 10 nights to work with. And it seems a minimum of 2 nights for Ravenna?

bvlenci: I have to get the map out. BTW, how do you say Le Marche? "Mark"? Thank you so much.

Le 'Markay'

We absolutely love Le Marche and have been 4 times in the last 3 years. You can read our trip reports here:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...t-do-italy.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rche-lucca.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-dolomites.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-le-marche.cfm

And see our pics here:
https://flickr.com/photos/[email protected]

<<zoecat: How long do you think one would need at Como? I have 10 nights to work with. And it seems a minimum of 2 nights for Ravenna?>>

I don't think you're spending too much time at Lake Como- I just recommend more time for Umbria (or La Marche) because there is so much to explore in those regions.

2 nights in Ravenna would give you a full day there. For me, it would be enough.

Holy cow! jamikins and bvlenci, you have really got me on a new track. So...
1. That area around Gubbio looks great, but jamikins, you make the driving sound awful. Fiuminata and Pioraco are within day trip distance of Gubbio?
2. My feeling is to stay somewhere "countryish", but close enough to drive to and from dinner in a town. Does that narrow down my possibilities? In looking at some of the agriturismos, they seem a bit remote.

zoecat; I thought Ravenna was a pleasant town outside of all the wonderful mosaics, no?

I think Bikerscott has taken liberties for humour! Some back roads were terrible but most are absolutely fine!

If we go back we are going to look at places around Cagli and Urbania if that helps!

I just love how untouristy and untouched the area feels.

I don't think Perugia or Assisi is a good base for Umbria. Perugia is too complicated if you have a car, getting in and out for day trips, and Assisi gets mobbed with tourists -- and its main attraction is "old" churches.

If neither you or your travel partner minds steep walks and stairs, then Spello or Montefalco are good bases. I like Montefalco because it has the most wide open views and also the best red wine, and if I am going to drink red wine, I like to stay in the town where it's made so I don't need to drive after drinking it at dinner. If you don't like the thought of a hill town, many people enjoy Bevagna.

I also enjoyed visiting le Marche, although I did not visit the parts with wide open scenic vistas. I saw more mountainous areas and caves, but also enjoyed small towns. I stayed near Urbino (at a place called Hotel NeNe, which served memorable food).

I once sort of did that trip the other way: Flew into Milan, started out at a lake, went to Ravenna, then to Le Marche, then to Umbria, then to Rome.

I spent 2 nights in Ravenna because I wanted to see all of the historic sites in town, plus the mosaic basilica just 10 kms south of Ravenna proper. Ravenna itself is a very pleasant town with good food. If you are coming from either Le Marche or Umbria, I think you will need to spend 2 nights in Ravenna or else you will end up arriving at your next stop -- Lago di Como -- in the dark.

Since you are giving up Venice to fulfull your travel partner's desire for vistas and countryside, would help if your travel partner is specific about what landscapes are desired. Many people very much want to see wine country and the views they have seen of rolling hills and cypress trees (and aren't put off by seeing many other tourists). Others really like a sense of adventure and a variety of agricultures, and maybe a few dramatic mountain views, or sea views (possible in Le Marche).

I will also point out that it is a little known "secret" that there are lovely hills, vineyards and towns with castles rather close to Ravenna -- Brisighella, Marradi, Dozza. If you wanted, you could take a train from Rome to Bologna, get a car and stay in Brisighella or Ravenna, and poke around.

http://www.brisighella.org/en/

http://goeurope.about.com/od/brisigh...from-above.htm

http://www.bestsmalltownsitaly.com/t...romagna-north/

http://www.locandalacavallina.it/locanda/it/dove-siamo

I meant to give you links to Dozza

http://italyproject365.com/dozza-emilia-romagna/

http://www.emiliaromagnaturismo.it/e...etails?ID=1327

and Marradi, which is not far from Brisighella if one wants a walk in the woods and a charming town

http://www.palazzotorriani.it/eng-marradi.htm

So there are all different kinds of landscapes...

We stopped in for lunch in Brisighella one trip and it was lovely!