Americans and Germans
 

Anyone travel to Germany lately and gotten "looks" from Germans? We were just there last week for two weeks and the Germans were not very friendly to Americans. Anyone else experience the same? We were in the Bayern region, including Munich for Oktoberfest.

I have not been recently but found the Germans not very friendly or helpful to the English, I was in a bar trying to get drinks for 8 of us they served everybody who came after us before serving us then in the middle of serving us a large group of germans came in and they served them before completing our round.

I was in Munich last October and found the Germans to be very friendly and helpful. Maybe they are tired of tourists in general with the large influx for Oktoberfest? We will be going back in a little less than three weeks so I will report back after we return home. I am hoping we will find the same happy, friendly people that we found last year.

That's correct, Germans eat little children and despise everything American. They hate Americans and make every effort to make their stay as uncomfortably as possible. They're EVIL, you must hate them, don't go there!

I've never noticed any overt unfriendliness and i suggest it's in either your own presentation or presumption

If you've never been to Europe before you may find the generally rather cooler public demeanor and interpret it to be anti-americanism (like not saying hi or good morning, etc. when passing strangers on the street)

But no Germans have, in my 35+ years of annual travels there seemed anything but polite folk.

But they do cook and eat little children, ,don't they? At least, that's what I've heared.

Provence:

I'm sorry for your poor experience. In my several journeys to Germany we have met with respect and dignity. We found that the Germans we encountered were very friendly, helpful and generally pleasant to be around. They, for the most part, seemd anxious to open a dialogue during which not in the slightest did they change any aspect of gentility that we were afforded anywhere we have been in Germany since the mid-80's, and as recently as 2005 (Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt, Romantische Strasse, The Black Forest, Bodensee).

Stu T.

I've frequently traveled to Germany and found them no different than anywhere else.

PalenQ gets at the root of it. Germans do not, as a culture, exhibit the easy-going nature of Americans, not the warmth of Italians. (Exceptions on both sides granted. You can always run into the curmudgeonly shop owner in an otherwise buoyantly friendly town in Italy, or the inexplicably informal and gregarious Viennese.)

But you never know in a given situation whether there is a bias steering behavior. The same thing can happen if you're a New Yorker visiting elsewhere in the US: some people are guided by their expectations, and don't keep an open mind to individuals. Even when they're not aware of it, racisim, homophobia, xenophobia can creep in ... and other times it's quite overt.

But they do cook and eat little children, ,don't they? At least, that's what I've heared

perhaps that's why the German birth rate is dangerously low right now - the 2nd worst in europe and below replacement rate - if it weren't for Muslim immigrants the rate would be more appalling

but now i know why - eating their babies i guess.

People in some european countries tend to be more formal than those in the us US. Germany is one of them.

What you may be reading as unfriendliness may simple be reserve.

(And I must admit that where I come from in the US you don't go around greeting every causal stranger in the street - people would thing you were mad. And it's not unfriendliness - just a huge number of people.)

Travelled to Germany in May and September. We speak no German and everyone we encountered was friendly.

All Germans are Nazis and racists, don't go there. They'er grim, unfriendly, xenophobic folks. You can't change them, stay home. But all Italians are great, you need to go there! Right! Americans otoh are open minded and great by definition, and all Arabs are terrorists. Yeah.

>but now i know why - eating their babies i guess.
Muslims at least don't eat babies, since they mustn't eat pork meat!

Dear Americans,
you are very welcome to our country but please remember for a second that
- Germans aren't too happy if you take for granted that everybody speaks English and understands the gargling American English. Please ask first. Especially when talking to older people or little children.
- the everlasting big American smile isn't appreciated. Germans smile when, and only when, there is a reason to smile. A smile without reasons doesn't seem honest to us.
- the "We are the greatest nation in the world" attitude isn't appreciated either. Unfortunately those Americans that show it (and there are some) are the ones that people notice while the friendly, open-minded and quiet Americans often go unnoticed. It's unfair, I know.
- incidents caused by the tourist's misbehaviour or simple misunderstandings should not be called "racism" or "xenophobia" too quickly. Some people seem to be VERY quick with such serious accusations (which Germans are extremely sensitive about).

Besides, in crowded tourist centres all over the world locals tend to get tired of the hordes.

I've spent a lot of time in Germany over the last 40 years and have found Germans to be generally pleasant, polite and courteous.

We were struck last year by how helpful people were in Munich. We (two older women) were trying to rassle our suitcases up the stairway leaving the train station and having difficulty because we're both 97 lb. weaklings. (Well, the 97 lb. part isn't strictly true....) Without saying a word, a well-dressed businessman grabbed my sister's suitcase, carried it up the stairs, plopped it down without saying a word and went on his way.

An elegant woman did the same for mine. A little later, as we were trying to get a tram ticket in a machine, a young man tried (with no success) to help us.

I've no idea what the situation was when you experienced cold behavior, but I think it was a fluke.

I'm not suggesting that you're stereotyping Germans, but many people do--just as they stereotype Americans. It always irritates me because--while every country has boors and thugs--I think the Germans are a cultured and civilized people.

I've found Germans, as a group, to be friendly, cordial and helpful.

The OP seems a little vague about what the problem was -- other than the Germans "were not very friendly."

Don't take this as an invitation to an argument, but I've found the Germans as a group to be much more friendly than the French.

quokka: I just can't get past the irony of a German saying another language is "gargling."

--I've found the Germans as a group to be much more friendly than the French.--

Whether or not this is true, attacking another group is never a good defense for oneself.

Take care of your vowels, it's A, E, I, O, U, not ayy, eeh, eyyy, oohh, yuuu. ;-). Please remenber round tones. I knew, Lina didn't get it, but Don did!

Don't be over sensitive.

I had an American client who was complaining he was being hassled for wearing an Italian football shirt in France...

I asked: "Were they saying Forza Italia?"

Yes.....

IMO, provence97 did not attack anyone. He/she was merely relaying an experience for the info of others. I find this thread very interesting since DH & I are planning a trip to Germany in the spring - first time.

I am American & I am one of those everlasting smiling ones (my grandmother lovingly said I would giggle at my own funeral!) I do not consider myself phony. I am a very optimistic & happy person. I would not want to be otherwise. I am sorry that "some" Germans think such people are dishonest. I can understand & accept another culture not being the way I am, but negatively judging me because I am always smiling & pleasant seems absolutely weird! Suppose they prefer that I am grouchy?

I have never thought of or talked of America being the best country in the world - I don't believe so, either. I do not "know" anyone who feels that way. I am patriotic & so are most folks I know. To me, that is different - that is pride, not arrogance. Why would Americans travel to other countries if they felt that way? They would just stay in the US! It's a shame that some folks in other countries judge all of us as such.

I am totally amazed at the numerous posts I see regarding locals becoming upset because a visitor does not speak the language. When I encounter non-English speaking folks in the U.S., I go out of my way to help them; they are people needing help! But definitely, don't get angry because they don't speak English. However, when they try to communicate with me, I am not put out if their language was not properly enunciated or correct. I guess it takes all kinds of people to make a world!

Happy travels everyone, Julie

<I am totally amazed at the numerous posts I see regarding locals becoming upset because a visitor does not speak the language>

In my 38 years of European travel i've seen more than a few Yanks who do something like this

come up to a local and immediately bark DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH? Or worse start rattling off some question without even knowing, but assuming the local speaks English. (And then when they don't at times insisting they do but won't!)

learn to be more polite and say in the local language pardon me or excuse me, then ask softly do you speak English?

Always learn a few words of local language as an introduction as this goes a long way in showing you're trying IMO

Hi P,

What were you doing or wearing that they gave you "looks". :)

We were in Bavaria in May, 2007 and found no cause for complaint, and even some folks who went out of their way to be helpful.

((I))

I have seen the British do that to. Many times.

Shucks, C,

I've even met helpful New Yorkers. :)

((I))

Ira,

I was referring to PalenQ. P.S. I love New Yorkers.

"Besides, in crowded tourist centres all over the world locals tend to get tired of the hordes."

Absolutely, Quokka. I marvel whenever I myself travel to spots I consider "Tourist Central" (e.g, the area around Parliament in London, Wenceslas Square in Prague, Brandenburg Gate in Berlin) that the locals I encounter are invariably efficient and helpful, if sometimes curt. Given what they must deal with over the course of a tourist season, I never expect to be treated with cordiality or warmth, but I am always grateful if I am.

I, myself, live in an area of the US that is highly popular with tourists, and my heart goes out to anyone who must deal with the teeming masses of the lost, the clueless, and the rude for weeks on end.

My favorite local bumper sticker: "If it's called tourist season, why can't we just shoot them?"

My POV when travelling is to remember that I am a *guest* in the countries I visit, and I would do well not to wear out my welcome.

My husband speaks passing "kindergarten" German, so we've had good experiences in Germany. I will say that in Berlin quite a few years ago, we encountered some rude folks in the service industry-for example, we went into a shop 15 minutes before closing time and wanted to buy a drink and the lady told us it was too close to closing time (it would have taken her 30 seconds to sell us the drink). I chalked that up to the lady being raised in the Communist days, where the customer was certainly not always right.

I'm British and have been to Germany half a dozen times and, apart from my initial visit, I have found the locals very polite with good manners and, all in all, friendly.

My first visit was different as it was to West Berlin at the time the city was controlled by the Allied powers. There was a definate coolness, almost rudeness towards me.

I will happily go back as often as I can. It is a beautiful country and I've still got lots of it to explore!

bill

We have traveled to Germany several times and our experiences were quite the opposite of the OPs. Germany had some of the nicest people we have encountered in our travels.

I recall the man in Rothenburg who saw us in our parked car trying to make sense out of our map and actually went out of his way to let us follow him to our hotel before driving off with a wave and a smile. And the gentleman from Munich who bought us some local wine in Slovenia when we happened to be staying at the same hotel and ended up at the lounge together one night.

I have many stories like this. We try to be polite and attempt to speak German, and we always travel outside peak season so maybe that makes a difference.

Tracy

yes Ira..right
Do you have unruly kids? are you loud talkers? Wearing americana flags? or I luv George W teeshirts? There must be more to it...

I have found Germans to be just like everyone else..I do have to say that the German tourists you find in Asia and other parts of Europe (in my experience) are self-centered....noisy and cut line at the buffets ...that kind of stuff..

DH and I have travelled to Germany on several occasions, and I studied in Germany for a semester as a student. We've experienced only politeness and kindness from the Germans and Austrians we have encountered, and we have definitely met many who are not in the tourist trade. A few incidences come to mind immediately...

February 2005 and DH and I (jetlagged and cold and exhausted) are wandering around Wurzburg in a snowstorm with a map, trying to find where we parked our rental car. A German lady driving by on her way home from work sees us, turns off the road and parks her car, approaches us and asks if we need help, then gives us a ride to the parking lost where our car is. She will not accept any token of our appreciation.

May 2007
A series of detours results in us being completely lost in a farming community somewhere outside of Augsburg. A gentleman in the midst of working in his yard ceases his activities, gets on his bicycle, and pedals more than a mile to lead us back to the correct road.

We've also had wonderful experiences with the British, the French, the Greeks, the Italians, and the Spanish... in fact the only "people group" we've come to dread in travel are the immigration folks at US airports, LOL ;-)

PalenQ, I hear what you are saying & agree to your right of opinion. But to me, your description of "some yanks" simply indicates inexperienced or insecure travelers, which is not a bad thing. Sadly for Americans, we are not surrounded by such diverse cultures as Europeans are. We are not regularly exposed to different languages. On our TV, every foreign person speaks English! Therefore, some inexperienced and/or uncomfortable American travelers probably do act inappropriately. However, the point is, why would anyone act ugly or think less of anyone just because he/she does not speak their language?

Just the other day during our (DH & I) morning walk, a woman came up to me & asked directions in a foreign language. I said, "I'm sorry, I don't understand." - of which, I'm sure she did not understand - duh for me! However, I knew she was needing directions, so used hand motions trying to get an idea of where/street/etc. With a very heavy accent, she said a street name, which I repeated for confirmation, & then we took her a block & pointed the direct way. Why would that upset me or anyone? Can any of us really excuse ourselves about not welcoming a visitor to our country just because he/she did not learn a few words of our language? Sorry, that seems so petty to me.

As far as speaking "loudly" - again an inexperienced and/or uncomfortable American traveler! Many years ago when we first started visiting Mexico, my husband loved the locals & he is always & everywhere wanting to verbally communicate with everyone! So even though he felt uncomfortable & intimidated by the language barrier, he would very SLOWLY & very LOUDLY ask a question - IN ENGLISH. It took a while before he "got it". It didn't matter how slow or loud he spoke - it didn't compute! Then after we had gone for a couple of years, he started adding "oh" at the end of every word - still spoken in English. "WhereOH is the bathroomOH?" It was an absolute riot. He kept all of us in stitches. And for the Mexicans who spoke English, they were rolling in laughter too! Sadly, his "oh" phase did not last long!

Happy travels everyone & lets be kind & welcoming to each other - in any language! Julie

Julie - i agree with your comments and yes it's often first-timers abroad, i should have said and no indite Yanks in general

and every nation has impressions of others - lots of my French in-laws always say how loud and 'sure of themselves' Germans are, etc. - especially my ex-wife who worked in a youth hostel a few years always says that.

the worst case of not politely asking before barking happened to me last year in Paris - i was walking thru the Louvre courtyard and a guy comes up waving his hands like he's guiding a plane into the gate and hysterically barking "Mona Lisa, Mona Lisa" like his life depending on it

He thought i was French and it turns out he lived in a town near mine in States - he just wanted to know where to go into see the Mona Lisa and was totally clueless

I often think if he had done that to some Parisians what their reaction would have been

first time he was in Europe - was there on business and just enough time off to see Mona Lisa.

PalenQ, that's a funny story! Isn't it so - we Americans are so often clueless! From what I have read, I bet he was surprised when he arrived to find the line just to view the famous painting!

Julie

I have to disagree with the OP as well. My husband and I traveled to Germany last year during Oktoberfest and experienced very helpful and friendly Germans. In fact, after we landed at Frankfurt and attempted to take the train downtown (in a very jetlagged state), a German approached us and asked us if we needed help based on our totally befuddled look while we attempted to decipher the map. Later, at Oktoberfest, we sat with very friendly Germans, in a "German" tent, who translated the menu and filled us in on the customs. They apologized for their English not being good, but I told them their English was better than our German and they taught us a few phrases.

TexasAggie, I had to laugh out loud! The worst part of any trip for me is to return home to the US and be scrutinized by immigration.

I start thinking, maybe I AM smuggling raw meat/heroin/huge sums of cash.

For the record - many trips to Germany, spanning many years, and only one 'rude' encounter comes to mind. Lots of positive experiences. A friend just returned from working in Germany for six weeks and had such a good time she is returning next summer for another six weeks or more...

>I do have to say that the German tourists ...that kind of stuff.. <

Absolutely!

Not to mention the Japanese, Chinese, Brits, Aussies, Americans, Mexicans, French, Italians, Guatamalans, .....

Tourists are tourists, no matter where they come from. :)

((I))

I visit Germany twice a year and have never had any problems. Even as far back as 1983, except very few people spoke English which I expected. Everyone is helpful especially in the pharmacies when I'm trying to describe a medical problem to get a medication.

Give Germany another chance. It is a beautiful country.

I use German in Germany but am lucky enough to have acquired the skills to speak it passably. I wouldn't expect the average tourist to do so.

But even at my level, I find it hard to keep it in German once my German conversation partner knows I'm American. Germans are unusually eager - as a rule - to try out and practice their English whenever possible. From my observations, "Do you speak English?", even when uttered in English, is the best conversation starter around.

From culture to culture, there are indeed culturally distinct mannerisms for verbal greetings and eye contact among strangers on the street. Perhaps you've experienced these. If so, don't assume your cultural rules apply when you're abroad, and you'll feel less slighted/intimidated/offended or whatever you were feeling.