Hey Thyra, that really sucks! It's bad enough that you only get 2 weeks!! Where will you be in Greece? We'll be in Santorini around the 5th. Forget about that ol' hag and have a good trip!

Dear Peggy: <BR>Thank you for your post. Because of your message my husband and I decided to go to Lisbon this November instead of waiting until 2001 as we originally planned. <BR> <BR>Thyra <BR>Tell your boss that what she is doing is illeagl, then quit. Good luck.

Coucou Thyra, <BR> <BR>Stories like that make me think I'll never return Stateside. Returning to work tanned and chilled will be your revenge ! <BR> <BR>And here I thought this thread was about bad American travelers needing hand-holding -- just a reminder, Europe isn't a museum: people live and work here, & aren't exhibits to comment about (a workmate just had a good whinge about an American couple saying, 'Hey honey, look how she's eating, isn't that quaint?!' WITHIN earshot . . . ) A-bloody-mazing, really! <BR> <BR>Have a good weekend!

Thyra--Don't quit...yet. Wait until you're in the middle of a big project, and your boss's butt is on the line, but she's depending heavily on you. Just when you're to the crucial point--walk out the door.

By the way, what you're boss is doing is not illegal. Stupid, yes, and not conducive to a productive work place, but not illegal.

Dear Thyra, as they say...you GO, girl! Enjoy your trip as we know you can (because of your previous wonderful postings) and then look astutely for some other place when you return. Trouble is, of course, out there are so many icky people like your bad boss. <BR>My husband has a boss like that and it used to worry him, but how he's used to it and just takes it as part of the going-away-to-Europe routine. <BR>Blow it off her attempts to bring iyou down and let us know how your trip went upon your return! Cheers, kk

KK, Alice, Ann, Tracy et al, thanks for the wonderful words, they really helped smooth over an extremely trying week. My husband's company encourages full vacations because of their belief (correct, in my opinion) that vacation time increases moral and productivity. All of your good vibes must have had an impact because a client offered me a job the next day. But I have to wait to take them up on it until I get back from Greece. Paige, we'll be in Santorini on the 7th... Happy travels to all.

Thyra: I think the boss may have been a bit jealous. (Vacations, for a reasonable length of time, are encouraged where I work -- yeah!!) <BR> <BR>Back to the original question -- spouse and I hold hands often and almost everywhere; I get a really secure feeling from it. A few years ago Valentine's Day fell on a weekend and we were vacationing in Monterey, Calif. EVERYWHERE you went there were couples -- of all ages -- holding hands. Seemed like love, truly, was in the air! <BR>

Hand...touching hand...reaching out

For those who thinks holding hands is more than not being able to be alone

For

to Peggy <BR>what a wonderful letter. I hope you see everything you want to see. I wish you luck.

Pete and I nearly always hold hands if we are walking together.... <BR> <BR>We just like it... <BR> <BR>(Also I think with my propensity to wander into the road without noticing the traffic prompts Pete to hold on to me to "look after his interests") <BR> <BR>Even when we are just going shopping (not the supermarket) or walking to the local restaurant we hold hands, so why not on holiday. <BR> <BR>For the poster who assumes this must be because we are too scared to face the world alone, what utter tosh. <BR> <BR>I have travelled on holidays on my own (out of choice) and had the most fantastic time... <BR> <BR>I still travel alone for work and I have no issues about eating out alone. Those who do (and it is a natural thing in this world full of couples and social groups) are probably more worried about what other peoples perception of them will be than the actual experience. <BR> <BR>It is actually quite nice to sit and enjoy a good meal, watching the world or reading a book or magazine, eating at your own pace and savouring the food. <BR> <BR>Thats not to say that on a longer trip it isnt nice to intersperse such meals with evenings in company... <BR> <BR>We hold hands because we like to - not to show anyone else anything but because we like to... <BR> <BR>To assume holding hands is a sign of fear, or inability to be an individual is at best woefully misguided and at worse a patronising and insulting attitude. <BR> <BR>Kavey

Hand holding Americans cannot match the amusement I get out of watching the floor grappling French. They seem unabashed about holding not only hands but other parts of the anatomy. <BR> <BR>My general impression from reading other posts is that Harzer's idea of holding hands is to stick the other person's fingers in his mouth and chomp down. That must be a quaintly German custom, one that the Skinheads seem to carry to the extreme right.

Thanks for bringing this thread to the top (I hadn't seen it before) in light of the hand-"grasping" comment by someone in another recent thread. <BR> <BR>I've always enjoyed holding hands, whether at home or on vacation, and I love seeing couples of any age do the same. I don't assume that they're "clingy", or incapable of being apart from one another (though I suppose that could be the case for some people). Instead, I assume they simply like touching, as I do. <BR> <BR>Do Americans tend to hold hands more than Europeans? Interesting question, never considered that before. Can't say I haven't noticed a lot of hand-holding in, for example, France, but I <I>have</I> noticed a lot of embracing and kissing, which I also love seeing (one of the reasons I love France!.) <BR> <BR>"In France they kiss on Main Street" -- Joni Mitchell <BR> <BR>A question for people who've traveled in conservative Islamic countries: it it OK for men and women to hold hands in public? <BR> <BR>

Interesting. I noticed, just back from Paris, that American couples tended to walk man in front/woman behind or the reverse, but seldom together, while the Parisian couples walked together, often touching. I used speech, clothing and accessories to distinguish: jeans vs trousers/skirts, maps & cameras vs grocery bags/dogs/carkeys. (American men in jeans/shorts/t-shirts/ <BR>shirttails out - grow up fellas!) Older Americans seldom hold hands here; why would they abroad? Young Americans have their hands all over each other. Saw that occasionally in Paris with natives and foreigners, mostly among the tattooed/pierced set. What I liked was older French women with make-up and dressed very smartly, including high heels, not at all like American women who seem to want to look as unfeminine as possible. Of course, there was that sad female tourist, dressed smartly, with that bleak look around her eyes, accompanied by her sweaty slug of a husband with his ratty, rumpled t-shirt, shorts scooting up between his thighs, 100 lbs overweight, huffing and puffing alongside her, eating something. On the other hand, he may be very good to her, so who's to say?

For Shanna: Regarding your theory that "older Americans seldom hold hands," my husband and I are American, we've been married for 30 years and we hold hands here, there and everywhere! This is the first time I've thought about why, and I realize that it isn't something conscious or planned. When we get out of the car, store, etc., he just leans his right hand out and I take it. Thinking now about how nice that feels brings tears to my eyes. As for "American couples--he walks in front, her behind..." I don't know of ANYONE to whom that applies. My husband would laugh so hard if I told him that there was an impression that American women were somehow subservient. That's the LAST way anyone would describe me!

To MaureenGP who said it might seem morbid but always wants to travel "now" just in case...I don't think you are morbid at all! If more of us behaved like life was temporary and fleeting (which it is), maybe we'd really LIVE more. Your father dying made you realize our time limited here; I went through the same thing when a relative died rather young. Let it teach you a lesson; go ahead and take that vacation - live now, not later!! <BR> <BR>Marlena

Peggy-YOU are my hero!! YOU I would travel with!! YOU are a "real person"! <BR>YOU are wonderful!!! Honestly, I've felt the same way but have not expressed it as well as you. <BR>If anyone sees me in Paris I'm the one having fun, laughing, shopping, trying new food, trying to say as many French words as I can, and not minding what you are doing, or what you are wearing and I'm certainly not using my precious time to wonder if you are American or not! <BR>Patti <BR>

God, the American bashing continues to go unababted. <BR> <BR>I get along with most everyone, until they start copping some attitude with me. Then I rip em a new, well, you know. <BR> <BR>I remember once while sitting at this bar in a town in Germany. Some large bus driver came into the bar, saw that I was hopelessly American, and started ripping me, Americans, Mom's apple pie. You Americans this. You Americans that. You all think you own the damn,\world, which we probably could but hey that's another story for another day. , but anyway, BLAH BLAH BLAH, YADA YADA YADA. I finaly said: Hey buddy, I don't give a rat's bleep what you think about Americans, about me, about anything in this life. Not now, NOT EVER <BR> <BR>I knew he wouldn't going to start anything with me since he was fat and out of shape. <BR> <BR>And I also told him to save that "you Americans" speach for another day and another set of American ears. <BR> <BR>Another war breaks out and this galoot would beg for Americans to visit Europe again. <BR> <BR>Hey I have always gotten along with most Germans and SWiss. I have talked with them in bars about various subjects. We have drank beer together and gotten along great.I can and do get along with most everyone, but this constant American bashing gets me, especially when it's done by other Americans. <BR> <BR>I don't know if this is yet another long line in trollers, but who gives a flyin flip whether American couples hold hands or not. EYAAIII YAAAIIIII.