Am I too fat too travel?
 

Hi all,

Next month I'm going to Europe for the very first time. I'll be visiting Dusseldorf, Amsterdam, Paris, Florence, Rome, Naples, and Interlaken. I am of average height and I am 300lbs/136 kilos. I'm a woman who is pretty comfortable in my own skin, however I'm concerned that I may run into public & private space issues. Examples: Restaurant chairs/booths, bus/train aisles and seats, bathrooms, showers etc. Here in America, where being fat is more the norm, I don't run into these issues much. But I hear most European countries have smaller people; thus smaller accommodations.

Should I expect to be physically uncomfortable in many of these spaces? Turned away? Ridiculed? (not as much of an issue, but I'd still like to know.)

I'd really appreciate honest, non fat-shaming advice, tips and feedback.

The accommodations size (I don't think) has much to do with people's size but that buildings are often older.
My questions would be
Are you on a tour? Is the tour aware of your size?
If this is independent, have you let the hotels , car rentals, etc know of your size?It might make a difference what room you are booked into or even if they have a room that will be OK.

What about the flight?

I have t confess I have never seen someone of your size in my European travels but I'm sure people do. I'd be most concerned that lodgings etc know your situation so you aren't faced with difficulties when you arrive.

Good luck.

Is this a real post or a troll?

If it's real, just go enjoy yourself!

You may experience tighter quarters but just like the restrooms on airplanes, just deal with it for the short time you have to, then go out and enjoy the open plazas and markets. Of course everyone should be mindful of imposing on another's space.

Sure someone may make a comment but it's a reflection of them not you - there are nice and less nice people everywhere.

Have a fab trip - enjoy-la!

We recently returned from Italy and we all commented that the showers and bathrooms are smaller than expected but you will be fine.
I think you may feel a bit crowded in restaurants and bars but I think everyone (from America) does because it is a little out of our "comfort" zone - things are just closer than we are accustomed to.
From our experience we found that the trains are an awesome way to travel!:):) We were somewhat nervous about trying something new but we loved it and found the trains to be easier than planes and much more "roomy" than we expected, even in 2nd class. Buying the tickets was easy with the great advice you can find here on the boards.
Most importantly, your attitude is everything. People will welcome you with your obvious positive outlook! Have a great trip!

Yes, it is true that many fewer europeans are overweight - although there are many Germans, dutch and scandinavians that are not slender/petite.

You will not be turned away. I can't imagine you will be ridiculed - but there are rude people everywhere - so you might hear a nasty comment.

I would be more concerned with comfort and sitting in seats.

When was the last time you flew? Are you comfortable in a coach class (I assume that's what you will fly) seat? Will you need a seat belt extender? All US flights are supposed to have them - but I don;t know if this is the case. On intereuropean flights seats are sometimes smaller and this might be an issue. If you plan to fly those I would check what equipment they use and seat size and row distance. (I am tall with long legs and have had squashed knees on a couple of shorter flights.)

Long distance trains should not be a problem - seats are generous. Local buses and metro are usually bench - so you can squash or stand.

Chairs in restaurants and theaters should be OK - I don;t recall any that were very tiny - although I suppose it might be possible in specific older theaters. for the latter I would ask when getting tickets.

As for "comfort zone" in restaurants - I don;t think that is US versus europe. I think that is big city (high rents and taxes push tables very close together) versus suburbs (land is cheap so fewer tables in same space). I recall one couple (suburban country club types trying to show how important they were) loudly complaining in Harry's in Venice that the tables were so squashed together that they were a fire hazard. (They were big cheese heads and complained abuout a lot of things). In fact, the tables were farther apart that in most nice restaurants in NYC (although obviously not as spread out as in their country club - where snapping your fingers at waiters seemed to be de rigueur, as was asking for a pitcher of ice.)

@newtome I'm going on an independent trip - no tour. Great idea to let the hotels know! I've flown a bunch and its always a bit tight but I'm usually fine. I'm traveling with a friend who won't mind if I impede on her space a little bit. Thanks for your honesty & advice.

@klam_chowder I am not a troll. Just very honest. =) Thanks for your feedback.

@willowjane You're the 2nd person who has told me that the trains are rather comfy. Great to hear! Thanks for all the feedback.

I really appreciate the helpful & thoughtful answers so far!

One thing that might be of concern to you (and perhaps not just someone who is of larger stature, but anyone with mobility issues) is the fact that there are sooo many stairs in Europe. Have to go to the bathroom? Well, it's just 3 flights up (or down!) Your hotel room? On the 4th floor with no lift! And some of the smaller hotels expect you to carry your own bags, without any help. My husband and I just got back from Italy and Switzerland and I was sure glad he was there to help with the heavy lifting as our room was on the 4th floor. Bathrooms can be a bit tight quite often too--regardless of your size.

I don't know what you mean by "average height and I am 300lbs/136 kilos". Coach seats on most international flights measure only 17" to 18" in width. Even the lay-flat beds on US Airways international flights (20.5") will not comfortably accommodate anyone over 6'3 and 250 lbs.

You should check with your airline regarding your seating arrangement. Many airlines will make you buy an extra seat if you impose on your fellow passengers. So the question is, are you sitting on the side with only two seats, or will there be three or more seats in the row.

http://www.seatguru.com/browseairlin...seairlines.php

Table spacing may be a problem in certain restaurants, especially in France.

I've traveled a few times to Europe with a friend who weighed about 350 lbs or so. She enjoyed the trips a great deal. Hotels were generally fine in greece, italy abd spain. definitely contact the hotels if you have a question. There were a few uncomfortable moments on planes. Actually the flight attendants were very nice about it but another passenger complained. It worked out in the end (they switched him with a young kid on a school trip). But I would do your best to get seats where your only neighbor will be your traveling companion.

Other than out in an open field, I don't know any place on this planet where accommodations for public use make it comfortable for 300-pounders. I think it's great when any obese person claims to be "comfortable in your own skin." Personally, I hated weighing 300 lbs, and I've worked hard all my life to avoid returning to obesity. To look at me today, no one would ever believe I once weighed that much.

When I see overweight people struggle while traveling, and I see them often, I'm reminded of my long-gone teenage years, and the extreme discomfort of being overweight in public.

It would never occur to me to ask this question on the internet. It's like asking is the sun bright. If you're overweight and you travel just one day, the answer to this question is obvious. Hence, troll suspicion.

Rhev...I applaud you for you honesty. I hope you get enough preliminary info on this forum, and I do hope you have a fun and meaningful trip to Europe. Believe me, there are people on this forum who bypass your dimensions but they frequently and happily travel the world.

Here are a few articles regarding "large" passengers. Food for thought?


http://travel.cnn.com/airline-fat-ta...ay-more-619046
http://americablog.com/2013/03/charg...on-weight.html
http://www.budgettravel.com/blog/obe...nd-seat,10525/
http://www.ifly.com/overweight-passengers
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliar...ne-passengers/

There are still people in Europe who are large - I know a family of larger people in Germany and they don't have or do anything special to accommodate their weight; in short they are not 'out of place'. You will even find some boutiques that cater to larger women such as Ulla Popken:

Ulla Popken
www.ullapopken.de

Düsseldorf Arcaden
Friedrichstraße
+49 211 33679018

Graf-Adolf-Platz 11-12
Düsseldorf
+49 211 4058026

In short, don't fret - you will blend in.

Lavandula

@NYCFoodSnob Again, I'm not trolling. I ask because I want to be as prepared as possible. Yes, it's pretty obvious that I will encounter some uncomfy situations, but I'd still like to get some insight from experienced travelers.

@Robert I am 5'6. I'm sitting in rows of 2, with my friend who doesn't mind that I will be impeding a bit.

You guys have been GREAT; giving me plenty of tips and - I guess what I needed most - some reassurance that I will still have a great time.

Thanks again to everyone.

Some of the shower stalls can be tight for even the thinnest of people. Maybe you can check with your hotels as to what types of shower facilities they offer.

Go and have a great trip!

The most uncomfortable part of the trip will probably be the airplane seats, and you are already prepared for that. I have never encountered an international flight without seat belt extenders.

Theater seats can also be a problem. And European bath tubs can be much narrower than American ones.

People in Europe do not appear to be any less accepting than people in the US. You should not expect to be turned away or ridiculed. I am speaking from experience. Go and have a great time.

I agree with joannyc - ask about the showers. Some of ours were tiny in Italy. A large person would not have been able to shower in them.

Cafe chairs at Parisian brasseries and restaurants tend to be quite small and therefore uncomfortable. I'm not sure what you can do about this.

Other than the possible impediments mentioned above, I expect you will have a fabulous time.

What type of hotels are you staying in? If you decide to go on a budget, you may find that hotels are smaller with teeny showers.

If you can spring for American hotels they will usually accommodate you.

Trust me, you are the only sizable woman to step off the shores of this country. AND you will not or will never have been the only sizable woman in Europe.

You will be walking! A lot. You'll be climbing stairs.

I hope you have been shopping for really good shoes. And then a couple of very comfortable socks. And bring moleskins. Your feet are much more important than any other body part for this journey.


I think if you can brave this thread, you'll be fine.


Speaking of language. Please learn to say some basic greetings and at least please and thank you (thank you very much is a good one too.) People in Europe or anywhere else are just as nice as you are.

Have a great time.

Now let's talk about the important stuff

What shoes are you taking?

What size suitcase?

What are you wearing?

As Lavandula has already pointed out, I cannot imagine that you will be ridiculed in Germany.
You'll blend in just nicely :-)
In the media, it's more the "How to become a super model" TV shows that get ridiculed or critisized for promoting an unhealthy lifestyle.

If you want more seating comfort on long-distance trains, you can think about 1st class.
Seating on high-speed trains is usually more or less like an airplane cabin, and while 2nd class usually has a seating plan or 2 seats - aisle - 2 seats, 1st class will have 1-aisle-2.
On public transport like buses or subways it will matter more if you travel during rush hour or not. During rush hour also the slim people will feel uncomfortable, so there should be no major difference.

I have stayed in hotels where I was "just" comfortable in the shower stalls, and I remember thinking that even my husband would have had a problem in there ( he wasn't with me) and he is 6.4 and 200 lbs.. so I am pretty sure if you stay in a budget-moderate hotel in a room that is "shower only " you may encounter the tiny shower stalls.. avoid.
Also, I would be careful, some elevators are so tiny, smaller then phone booths, you may have to work something out, like you go up first, then friend sends up your luggage, then she comes up separate..you'll figure it out.
Make sure hotel has elevator, many don't so if its not mentioned do not just assume..

<i><font color=#555555>"@NYCFoodSnob Again, I'm not trolling."</font></i>

For someone who was called a troll my first year here (among other things), I can assure you, rhev, I wasn't accusing. Just explaining suspicions.

Looks like you're receiving some help. Bathrooms <i>are</i> a serious issue in Europe. I've seen shower stalls and tubs that travel companions could not get into or out of without help. Some toilets were impossibly situated and unusable. And I've never traveled with an obese person.

I do know one obese person who contacted his hotel in Italy to forewarn them. They never responded. He wrote to them in English and either they didn't understand him or they chose not to deal with the issue. Trying to explain the delicate issue of personal obesity and bathroom needs in a foreign language is not easy, especially when you realize the numerous problems you could encounter.

Good luck.

21 stone is pretty big but my English/German BIL is 22 stone and he travels all over northern europe. He has given up on showers (as they are often too small) and insists on a bath. He drives most places and would use first class rail if he had to to ensure enough space. I don't think he has been on a bus in years and you may find a crowded bus unpleasant.

Other than that people will not comment or point as generally (only generally) the world is full of all shapes, sizes etc

Why are you going to Interlaken?

I looked at your other cities and Interlaken is nowhere near any other city on your list. This means you will be on trains for a very long period.

2nd class on a Swiss train will be very tight. You had better go 1st class.

The Bernese Oberland is a skiing and hiking Mecca. If you don't plan on doing either, it will be a waste of time. Lots of walking to see Murren, Lauterbrunnen, Kleine Scheidegg.

I also can not see someone who weighs 300 lbs. sitting on the train up to the Jungfrau. Also must worry about breathing problems associated with high altitude.

You could take boat rides on Lake Thun or Lake Brienz with little problem, however.

I think you would also fit into the little train up to the Schynige Platte because their are no armrests on that train.


Go luck to you.


Thin

As Lavandula has already pointed out, I cannot imagine that you will be ridiculed in Germany.
You'll blend in just nicely :-)
____

Especially if you sun bathe nude or in a Speedo.

You are going to encounter some issues and are aware of that. I think the biggest problem will be the flight over and back. Economy seats are not designed for anyone over 5-5" and a hundred pounds.

As min I think you need to opt for the Economy plus, Economy Comfort, or whatever the upgrade economy seats are called. You absolutely need the extra space. Your companion may be ok with your spilling over but there will probably be a problem with the recline of the seat in front of you.

At 6-2" and 225 I am not a heavy person but tall and need all the space I can get. Also have some lower back problems which makes it impossible to sit upright the entire flight. Reclining with some pillow wedges on my lower back helps a lot but still does not total prevent the discomfort. Therefore, always try for the economy plus if available.

Unfortunately on our trip last month economy plus seating was not available. I was in a seat in front of a very large woman. And, of course, what developed with the classic recline, do not recline argument. I will admit that when I reclined the seat the whole three inches it nearly touched her stomach. It became a big problem on an eight hour flight with a full plane and no where else to sit. I finally decided that my comfort trumped her comfort.

I believe your major problem could be mobility versus space. You will do an awful lot of walking in Europe, and many, many places, including the subways, are not always handicapped accessible. I discouraged my mother-in-law from taking a trip because of her age and limited mobility. It depends on how fit your are and if you think you can deal with steps and distance.

I don't think you will be ridiculed although anything is possible as sadly there are cruel people everywhere. But there are overweight people everywhere as well, including all of Europe.

Do you have problems with heat and humidity? If so Naples can be absolutely miserable.

With a bad knee I have trouble getting in and out of many hotel bathtubs (they are often very high). At 25+ lbs overweight, some shower stall doors are a tight squeeze. Public toilets, particularly in cafes, can be ridiculously small but where there's a will, there's a way!

I hope you have a great trip. Loose clothes and comfortable shoes are your best friends.

I don't think you'll have problems with trains, etc., but it is possible that some bathrooms may be too small for you. IN particular, the shower, but I have been in some European accommodations with a very small toilet room, also, and I don't think someone that size could get into it very well, if at all. In particular, you might encounter this more in really budget accommodations as they sometimes try to squeeze in prefab bathrooms (that are really not much bigger than ones in an airplane) into existing old hotel rooms.

I think you'd have less trouble with modern hotels, as a warning. I don't think it is particularly an issue of "American hotels" as advised, I think it is modern versus old. Modern business type chain hotels of any country will be more likely to have something larger than those situations I'm thinking of where they try to fit in very small bathrooms into older hotel rooms.

i would stay out of anything that requires climbing stairs. (i'm not trying to be funny or anything) A belfry, castle, dome, things like that. I'm a skinny guy and i remember there being times where stairs and walkways were very narrow in some of those places. you might tire easily so i'd use public tranportation to get around. folks walk a lot in Europe and so will you. i don't think you'll be ridiculed but you might get some stares. but you know what? who cares right? you're there to have a good time

Like NYCFoodSnob, I am a former 300 pounder.

When I weighed 300, I traveled a lot in Europe and the US. I weigh about 50 pounds less now and still travel a lot.

I got more tired when I was that heavy because I was essentially carrying an extra 50 lb suitcase everywhere. I stayed in a hotel in Venice where the bathroom was so small that I had to leave the door open to sit down. Other than that, I didnt really have any problems. I found it much harder to get into and out of friends' cars than public transportation, though I would recommend first class on trains. It is not expensive if you buy tickets well in advance.

I loved European trips because I ate well and still lost 5-10 pounds per trip because I exercised so much more than at home.

Be very careful, before you go in enclosed spaces, bell towers, the crown at the vatican, etc. They would be terrible, because there is absoutly no way out except up or down. The cafe's in Paris, on the tourist route are extremely crowded, even for locals. Go back a street or so, and you usually have more room. The showeres are very tiny and hopefully you will have one with a shower curtain (which will stick to your behind, no matter what your size)but no door to deal with,the best would be a tub with a shower. My family is big, so we know these things. Hopefully you won't run into rude people, but it happens here, so just let it roll off your back, and enjoy. Glad your sitting with your friend, this will help with the airplane problem.

No, you're not too fat to travel to Europe, and you've already got tickets, so just go with your good, healthy attitude and recognize that not every space you encounter will work for you, whether in a café or restaurant or hotel bathroom. The European concept of space is different from ours. You'll probably notice that when Europeans talk to each other their faces are inches closer to each other than ours are, that queues for buses and tickets and such involve much closer spaces between people - there are all kinds of little "space" moments like that that you will encounter.

Just do be careful selecting a hotel so you'll have room to move around your bedroom and use the bathroom facilities. Check out cafés and restaurants from outside and assess whether you'll be comfortable or not. And don't be shy about asking for help!

Have a lovely trip!

You will not run into rude people.

Get it out of your mind. And even if you do, ask yourself.

How many languages do you speak AND understand??

There are rude people all over the world. It has nothing to do with your size, or hair color, or whatever..it has to do with them being insensitive and unkind. Some people just feel like they have the right to say anything that pops into their head, anytime. Idiots.

Your very first trip! How exciting for you. You will have a great trip...but the showers are a pain, for people of any size..that is, once you figure out how to turn them on!

I think you have received good advice here (from most people), so I don't have much to add except the following. Although it's almost always a good idea to minimize the amount of stuff you pack (since you have to schlep it around), I would recommend that you pack enough clothing basics so that you don't face any "clothing emergencies".

For example, a long time ago (before Gap took over the world), I packed light for a trip to Hong Kong and proceeded to sweat through my 2 t-shirts in the first day of my trip. Of course, I could (and did) rinse out my shirts and rewear them - I had no choice because I couldn't buy anything that fit in Hong Kong. But it was pretty darn inconvenient to wash my tshirts every day.

In Germany and the Netherlands, clothing sizes generally are more generous, so you might able to buy clothes that fit there if you needed to (or wanted to). But, to take an extreme example, you wouldn't want to pack only one pair of pants, in case you ripped or stained them irreparably. (BTW, I often travel with a single pair of pants because my other clothes are dresses, leggings, etc. But I can easily buy replacements - except maybe in Borneo next year - so I'm not worried about having a zipper failure.) So, if there are any pivotal items in your travel wardrobe (bra, the pants that go with all of the shirts you packed, etc), pack an extra item that works with other items in your wardrobe.

I have never noticed table and chairs in restaurants being smaller in Europe. Hotel bathrooms maybe! But not trains, busses, restaurant seating. Whatever challenges you face here in the US would likely be more simmilar than different in Europe.

Hi <b>rhev_olutionary</b> - Here is a similar thread I started for my Mom and sister:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-in-europe.cfm

There is a lot of helpful advice and info there as well.

PS: They went to Europe and had a lovely time. Showers were tight, and a few of the *armed chairs* outside the cafes were out of the question, but the armless chairs were fine. Everyone was kind - Kinder, in fact they said than the US. My sister said she enjoyed many fun/flirty conversations on several occasions with handsome Italian men who loved her curves, ha! She's ready to move to Italy! :)

Doppio, I am glad you posted your sister's experience, I remember your thread and am glad it all worked out well.

Doppio, Thanks for finding the other thread. I remembered there was one previously almost identical to this question but couldn't quite remember the author or wording to find it in a search.