Alitalia
 

I'm planning on flying Alitalia to Rome on 9/24, returing from Naples via Rome on 10/6. Today I just read a disturbing article in the Wall St. Journal talking about how they don't have enough cash to last through the end of the month. They said there is chance the gov't may take over and be forced to liquidate the airline and ground their flights!

Does anyone know details about the situation? Should I be calling Delta (who I boooked the flights through) to see what my options are? Should I be worried or doing anything about this?

Looking to hear opinions from people who might be in the same boat.

Thanks!

I'm leaving on 9/16, returning 9/27 on an Alitalia flight, code share with Delta. Since I purchased the tickets for a Delta flight, I would hope Delta would be responsible for getting me back from Rome if the Alitalia does go under while I am there. Is this wishful thinking? ((b))

You should talk to Delta. I seriously doubt Alitalia will be around much longer. Bloomberg News seems to be giving the best, most up-to-date coverage:
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...p;refer=europe

When, and IF,the airline stops flying is when you should worry about it...but if you enjoy worrying in advance, well...

I'm hoping the fact that I booked through Delta gives me some protection, but I'm not sure.

With regards to worrying in advance, the only reason I'm doing that is because I want to make sure I have enough time to deal with potential hotel reservation / cancellation policies so as to not lose any deposits.

There is another thread that has been running for a while about this. Do a search for Alitalia, you'll find it.
The latest is that yesterday Alitalia met with the unions and advised them of their proposed plan, which was to cut 5000 jobs and transfer more to another company they would form to handle ground operations. The union today rejected the plan.
Alitalia needs to get access to the 400E million loan from the government, but they can't unless they have a plan in place by September 15. There is still no plan in place, and they are attempting to negotiate with the unions. Without the plan and the loan, they do not have enough cash to operate beyond this month.
Keep watching the news. Airwise.com has regular stories on this, as does cnn.com.

The odds look strong for Alitalia to stop operating any day now. If that happens, if the Delta flight was what they call an Alitalia code-share, you most likely would not be protected, as this is not really a Delta plane. Already, Continental flights are sold out this coming weekend in anticipation of Alitalia going out. Let's hope for the best with the government bail out. But it does not look promising

Another thread on this issue
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...3&start=50

I cant get air France to give me a straight answer yet. My ticket into Italy is with air france , though operated by Alitalia. as im flying into Verona im a bit concerned that this might be cancelled...

Almesq:

When today did the unions reject the plan?

They announced last night that "the plan, as announced has to be changed". And that "Unions reconfirm their willingness to look for all possible solutions including via productivity improvements"

Which to me is all union-speak for "OK, we'll sort of come round eventually".

Now it's a while since I did real negotiations in Italian, so maybe my understanding of the nuances is a bit dated.

But I can see absolutely nothing on the wires right now to support your claim of rejection. Or mulifat's claim they'll stop operating soon.

My bet is that the unions will buy a modified version of the package sometime late on September 15.

But I would bet as little on that - or any other - outcome as I'd bet on American or French airlines honouring debts incurred by a bankrupt Italian airline if I'm wrong.

I would just like to clarify one issue here: only those tickets ISSUED by Alitalia would become useless in the event that the airline ceased operations.

All other tickets, even if they include segments on an Alitalia plane (codeshare) and/or flights with an AZ... number remain valid. The issuing airline is responsible for getting to your destination and back and must reacommodate you on other flights. You could still face significant delays however.

With a paper ticket, you can see which airline issued it on the upper lefthand corner of each coupon.

As far as e-tickets are concerned, the issuer is the airline that sold you the ticket.

Hope this helps,
Andre

I called Delta, who issued me my tickets thru Orbitz, and they confirmed that it's their responsibility to get me home from Italy with one of their code shares (Continental/Air France).

Maybe I'll be a volunteer to spend a couple of extra days in Rome while the airlines sort the whole thing out. ((b))

I booked my flights for October through Expedia.com. The tickets are on Delta operated by Alitalia. I just called Expedia and they said we were confirmed on the Delta flight but we just have to check in through the Alitalia desk! (lets hope there is one there when the time comes) I would be really surprised if the airline we are booked on refused to honor our tickets - they must have been paid for it right? If anything happens, can the Credit Card companies do anything. Now Im scared!

flanneruk: I read this morning on I believe either (or both) cnn.com and bloomberg.com that the unions rejected the proposal, and that they would be meeting again this afternoon with management to present the union's joint counter-proposal. They have also called on the government to intervene. And, the smallest union, the CUB union (certain ground crew) has staged some sort of "hunger strike" and is considering a blockade of the airport in Rome as well as possibly the port.
I didn't mean to suggest they weren't negotiating anymore, it sounds like they are. Obviously, it would be bad for all if they went out of business. I can't imagine the union would rather have all 20,000 employees lose their jobs than "only" 5000 being proposed by the airline.
As for Delta honorning tickets, if you purchased a Delta ticket, and happen to be on an Alitalia codeshare, Delta will obviously honor those tickets, but they might have trouble getting you on a flight along with everyone else. I just got "back up" tickets on Delta (fully refundable, just in case) and they told me that this other flight was almost fully booked already. Obviously, many people are getting back up tickets just in case.

Aine, you should be fine. Since you're booked on the flight physically operated by Delta, you should be ok.

is it likely that they will cancel/substantially reduce flights to destinations like Verona?

Depends when you are going. If they do come to an agreement that includes job cuts, and other reductions, they may well reschedule or eliminate some flights. I would think, however, that this will take some time to work out. If they can reach an agreement and get the emergency loan, that would keep them going beyond the end of the month and give them some time to finalize and implement the new plan.

For anyone interested, here's a link to a page at MSNBC that has several articles from today with the latest news:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/?querytext=...ction=fulltext

I've read that the pilot's strike has been postponed until October 15th.

http://www.whatsoninrome.com/strikes.php

Negotiations with labor unions will continue tomorrow.

The pilots strike MarkY mentioned was only one of 2 scheduled. The link he gives says the one for September 10 has been postponed, but the same page indicates that the one set for September 17 is still on.

This, I am sorry, is freakin' hilarious LOL!!! I am flying on Alitalia 9/11 (so I am allowed to make light of this!)

"CUB, the most radical of Alitalia's more than 10 unions, said its members would begin what it is calling a "rotating hunger strike" in which four Alitalia employees do not eat for one day and are followed by four other employees the following day." (from this link:http://www.iht.com/articles/537731.html)

ThongLori.... it's nice that you can laugh at this, must be the thong. ;)

I'm flying British Air from Phoenix to London and Alitalia from London to Milan on September 15th. Hopefully, all will be well.

I have to chuckle. How does Alitalia stay in business. We're arriving in the morning of the 17th, and the pilots are striking at 10:00 that morning. Now, that's great timing. ((a)) I hope any fodorites departing on the 17th are leaving before 10am.

What a way to run a railroad. I have not planned my trip around all the strikes -- I guess I've just been lucky. ((b))

I'm actually flying on September 17 at 7:30 pm NY time, which is after the strike (which is set for 10am to 6pm Italy time). However, my flight is on a plane that obviously must first come in from Rome, on a flight that is supposed to leave Rome at 12:30 pm. So, the strike may be over when I leave (assuming they are still in business), but there may be no plane to fly!
I'd cry if I didn't laugh!

OK! Now I'm nervous too! My husband and I are meeting in Venice on 9/30. I am flying in from Pittsburgh via US Air, but my husband will be in Germany on business and is flying Alitalia from Dusseldorf, Germany to Venice. We are meeting that morning! What will we do if his flight gets cancelled? I already checked for other flights but none get him in by late morning, and all of the flights are expensive. We purchased his ticket thru Travelocity. I just emailed them my concern, we'll see what they have to say. Could my husband take an overnight train from Dusseldorf, Germany to Venice? Does anyone have any info on this? I went on RailEurope's site but didn't get specifics, as far as routes. What a nightmare if this all happens!

Just thought of this. Is Alitalia run by the Italian government? I think I saw that somewhere. If so, I doubt that they (gov.) will leave thousands of tourists high and dry (not to mention furious) and lose the money you would spend there and goodwill of many. Tourism is probably one of Italy's most important sources? What do you think?

Berlusconi didn't get where he is today by failing to deliver on his threats. The threat to close the airline comes directly from the Italian government - which doesn't run the airline, but does own 62% of the shares.

I'd say there are only three real possibilities:
- the unions accept, by more or less Sept 15, the current round of cuts, or some acceptable, but slightly watered-down version. Clocks can be stopped in European negotiations, so don't be surprised if they're all still locked in smoke-filled rooms on Sep 16. That, BTW, is what my money would go on
- the airline goes bust (losing jobs may not frighten them that much) on Sep 15
- most of the unions accept, but the lunatic fringe runs disruptive programmes after September 15 to delay and distort the implementation ofthe cuts.

But don't expect any goodies from Berlusconi. There are more important things than a few thousand pissed off tourists

tennisgirl,

Check out:
www.hlx.com

They have flights from Köln/Bonn airport, which can be easily reached by train from Düsseldorf in 35-50 min., to Venice. You might just want to purchase a ticket as a precaution (especially if your husband's Alitalia ticket is on a refundable fare).

Unfortunately, there's only 1 flight a day leaving at 19:00 and arriving at 20:20, so perhaps your husband can fly in the evening before. Currently fares are EUR 99 all in for the Sept. 29 flight and EUR 119 all in for the Sept. 30 flight.

Train connections to the airport can be found at:
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

Enter "Koeln Bonn Airport" as the arrival station.

You can also use that site to search for night trains, although there are no direct connections, the "best" route involves one change in Munich and takes over 14 hours...

Hope this helps,
Andre

Just fabulous. I booked directly with Alitalia to Rome on 9 October, and have already paid the deposit on a flat for the week.

One thing I hadn't previously realized about the Alitalia situation until I started reading more articles, is that Berlusconi does not have a free hand. Any governmment bailout is subject to approval from the European Union (HQ in Brussels). Some commentators are saying that the union response is likely to result in the demise of Alitalia.

According to the WSJ: "Much depends on the airline's creditors. If they are willing to take another chance on Alitalia and support the capital increase, Brussels probably will allow the carrier to stay afloat. Otherwise, the solution may be bankruptcy followed by resurrection as a new, slimmed down flagship. That happened with Belgium's Sabena in November 2001. When unions refused to accept job cuts, Sabena stopped flying and has since been relaunched as SN Brussels Airlines."

We flew Alitalia 2 weeks ago from Venice to Naples. I can tell you part of the reason they might be going out of business -- they never bothered to charge us for the tickets! We booked the tickets months ago, and still have yet to be charged!

I think this is good news.

I just read it on the BBC site:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3839343.stm

"Alitalia agrees cost cutting plan"

OOOOPs, sorry article was from June.

I think it will depend on whether you are booked on a Delta ticket or an Alitalia ticket and on your method of payment. I think that the Italian gov't will keep them in the air. They are second last on my list of airlines that I have flown on but plan to avoid like the plague in the future.
I have tried them three times. Others may have better experiences. I am just about to book on Volare, the low cost airline in Italy. COuld be a bit of a chance but the prices are much lower and the service is probably on par.

Thanks Andre for all of that wonderful information! I really appreciate that. I will look into it. My husband feels we should just wait it out. I called his travel agent and she assures us that we won't be left "high and dry", that even if the airline folds another airline will get him to his destination?? His ticket is non-refundable, so to change anything there is of course a hefty change fee. I'll keep you posted. Thanks.

I have a ticket on Alitalia booked through Delta. I spoke with a Delta agent last Friday who told me that since I was a ticketed passenger, Delta would "protect" me in case Alitalia was no longer flying. (This assumes that Delta won't be going bankrupt either.)

The Delta agent advised me to wait it out because changing tickets now would cost me a large penalty fee.
So I am going to wait and hope.

Just in case it might help, here is some info I looked at today. I felt a little better after finding it.

http://fodors.com/forums/pgMessages....=3&start=0

I am also flying Alitalia on Oct.15th to
Florence and am unsure what to do? Anyone know who to call?

Who to call about what?

If you want a prediction about how all this will pan out, call a fortune teller.

If you want certainty your plane will take off with you on it, cancel and book with a solvent airline. Alitalia may not have been closed yet, but it's broke. And Europe doesn't keep broke airlines flying.

Anything else is a judgement call. Anyone who claims they "know" or who "assures you other airlines will honour tickets" is a charlatan.

Maybe - maybe - the unions will see sense. But that opens the way to a swathe of job losses in the whole of the Italian public sector, so don't bank on it.

Maybe the Italian government will back down. But that almost guarantees the EU will declare the loan illegal. And if the EU doesn't, BA will take both the EU and the Italian government to the European Court almost instantly. So don't bank on that.

This, I'm afraid, is an occasion where no-one knows nuffin.