Advice on our whirlwind week in England!
 

My dad, DH and I will be going to England for the first time next May. I would like some advice on our itinerary.

Saturday May 17: Arrive in London @ 7am; retrieve rental car; Windsor Castle, Stonehenge; arrive in Bath for the night
Breakfast idea around Windsor? Lunch idea around Stonehenge?

Sunday May 18: Bath; late evening drive back to LHR to return car; tube to our London B&B
Is one full day in Bath enough?

Monday May 19: London sights

Tuesday May 20: Take the train to Winchester for the day

Wednesday May 21 and Thursday May 22: London sights

Friday May 23: Fly home

With 3 full days in London, do we have time for:
Tower of London; British Museum; Kensington Palace (other sights of Kensington Gardens); St Paul's Cathedral; Museum of London (possibly); other suggestions?

other sights you can't tour but would like to see...Buckingham Palace; Houses of Parliament; Big Ben

How would you pair everything to make the most of our days? Does it sound like a well rounded whirlwind of a first timers week in England? Is it a good idea to see London sights for a day, Monday, then go to Winchester for a day to follow with two days in London? Or, would you get Winchester out of the way on Monday then see London three days in a row?

Thanks in advance!

Driving to Windsor, Stonehenge and Bath the first day is a very bad idea IMO. Jet lag will make it dangerous. You can take the express coach to Bath from LHR. Not only will it be safer, it will likely be faster since you won't have to take the shuttle and daffodils about w/ the rental agency.

The next day take a train to Salisbury and the local tour to Stonehenge (only if Stonehenge is a must). Or, take the train from Bath to London and skip Stonehenge.

Buckingham palace , Big Ben, parliament are just walk by's so no problem seeing them.

The order you do London / Winchester probably don't matter. You are spending an awful lot of time outside of London so you really won't see much in the city. I'd probably decide between Winchester and
Windsor and do one or the other as a day trip from London -- or skip both depending on what you want to see in London. I'd actually prefer Hampton Court Palace over either for a first time visit.

Thanks, janisj, but we are set on the rental car. My dad is a business traveler and has been traveling for years. He is not concerned with jetlag and driving. We want to be out on our own and not have to take a bus from Bath to Stonehenge then a train back to London. Also, Windsor is just to see the castle. Stonehenge is a must for my dad. Winchester was another day trip because my dad is such a British history buff.

With the sights that I listed that we do want to see in London, will they fit well in 3 days?

Where are the Cabinet War Rooms and Imperial War Museum on this itinerary? Remember, you are going abroad with two boys. Your itinerary does not discuss pops' health - we're guessing he's ambulatory and relatively hale?

Go to daysoutguide.co.uk, the 2for1 offers will save you some money (Tower, Cabinet War Rooms, maybe St. Paul's, maybe Kens Palace), the old man will likely be able to get pensioner prices.

Why Winchester? Yeah, the pics look nice on the tourism site, but as a destination opposed to other places you may go?

Why would you drive unless you must? Easy to take public transport and the fuel (petrol) prices in the UK absolutely suck - over $8/gallon after metric and currency conversions. Janis is anti-driving after a long flight (I think it's something anyone can handle with caffeine and G-d knows there are Starbucks aplenty in the UK, but there is a learning curve if you've not driven on the wrong side of the road before . . . while sober) but her point about the ease and ubiquity of public transport is right. Fast train from Bath gets you into Paddington; fast train from Paddington (with a change) gets you to Windsor in 25 minutes. Or slow train from Waterloo gets you to HCP in 45 minutes.

Do go to londontown.com and use its walking tours and maps to group your sites with some logic. Also, go to www.walks.com and see what interests you and the hubby.

I didn't say take a bus from Bath to Stonehenge. I said train from Bath to Salisbury, local bus to Stonehenge - you'd hen take a train straight to London. But doesn't matter if you insist on driving.

W/ a 7:00 arrival you probably won't be on your way in the car til nearly 10 AM so a bit late for breakfast in Windsor. You'll get to Bath in the late afternoon.

And just to clarify what Big Russ posted - I may be 'anti- driving' after an over night flight . . . I am not anti driving. I've driven tens if thousands of miles in the UK over 30 plus trips. And tens of thousands more over the five years I lived there. And I raced sports cars. I'm not a nervous nelly "ooh, I'm afraid to drive on the wrong side of the road!" type . .

Big Russ: That would have been helpful if I mentioned our ages/health! Okay, so DH & I are 32 (will still be by the trip) and my dad, who I actually call Pops, will turn 52 in August. I have young parents! He is in great shape/walking ability! Before I read the latest replies I starting thinking about the Imperial War Museum.

Also, I need to add Westminster Abbey.

To add more info, to help w/ the itinerary, I am looking at the Kennington B&B. It says on walkit that the B&B is 12 minutes from the Imperial War Museum.

Sorry, janisj, you did not say to bus from Bath to Stonehenge.

We just started planning so things could change. We felt that we didn't want to be at the mercy of buses/trains and felt it would take more time. My dad is very comfortable with traveling and is confident with driving on the other side of the road. He has traveled to Germany, Taiwan, and so many other places for work.

I realize that the gas is expensive but it is just for one day. From LHR it says, via google maps, that Windsor is 20 minutes away. From Windsor to Stonehenge: 1 hour 15 minutes. From Stonehenge to Bath is a little over an hour and we can make a stop to see the Wiltshire White Horses. We like the freedom we can have from LHR to Windsor, Stonehenge, and Bath.

Also, I just thought, if you add up train/bus tickets, well there is the gas money!

Sorry but I heard this week about friends who on returning from a European holiday to the UK picked up their car fora 70 mile drive home and ended up putting it in a ditch, driving when tired. So I echo the poster who said don't drive after a transatlantic flight. You may be comfortable driving but please think of the other road users.

Looking a at all of the on-line mileage calculators, you need to add from 30% to almost 100% to the drive times. The20 minutes to Windsor can be about right - it is only 7 miles. But otherwise you really need to add time.

And Kennington is a horrible place to stay. It is far from anywhere.

janisj: I read almost 200 excellent/very good reviews on tripadvisor stating that they "wouldn't stay anywhere else in London", "excellent location", "so close to the tube".

The b&b is only 50 meters to the tube. I put in the b&b address to the British Museum and it says 16 minutes by tube. I put in Tower of London and St Paul's Cathedral...both 20 minutes by tube. IMO, 15-20 minutes is not far.

How much are taxis per mile?

It is in Kennington. It is not near anything g at all except for the Oval. Kennington tube station is on the northern line south of even Elephant and Castle.

There is absolutely no reason to stay there. Honest. But you seem convinced, so go for it . . .

louistraveler, please may I say this in the kindest possible way?

There are those here who are very seasoned travelers, for business but also for pleasure, and they seldom strongly urge for or against something unless they're pretty sure that they're right.

When I first read your original post, my thought was that this can't possibly be right; I must be misunderstanding something.

It seems that you want to do as you have planned. So that is perfectly fine, but you may rely on people here to give better time estimates than online calculators. They have no reason to mislead you.

Try to get a hotel in Bath with parking.

tuscanlifeedit: "when I read your op, my thought was that this can't possibly be right"...what are you referring to?

I don't see what the big deal is about being 15-20 minutes away from sights by staying in Kennington? Anyone want to explain? I scoured the internet for days for a b&b and finally found this one with a good price for 3 people. I don't mind taking advice from seasoned travelers but also I don't think about 200 reviewers are misleading either. We eat breakfast at b&b; take the tube; see the sights...am I missing something? We have no intentions to return to the b&b throughout the day. We are going to be out all day and return after dinner.

Like I said, I don't mind taking advice so janisj, could you explain why you wouldn't stay in Kennington with the sights being a short tube ride away? Any b&b suggestions that are closer to the sights? Also, stating that Kennington line is even south of Elephant and Castle means nothing to me since I don't know anything about the London tube. Explanation?

"Explanation?"

I always wonder, when plans seem to be already fixed, and reasonable suggestions are ignored, why ask the questions. An explanation of that might be interesting.

Another thought is to spend Saturday through Tuesday in London. You could do Windsor Castle as a day trip from London.

Pick up your rental car early Wednesday, do a Stonehenge/Bath/Salisbury/Winchester loop (or the other way around)and be back Friday for your return flight.

We weren't all that interested in seeing Stonehenge, but we drove from Bath to Salisbury via Stourhead in part of a day. The next morning we visited Winchester and Chawton before heading to Heathrow to catch our flight.

This way you can avoid driving while jetlagged and still get to see things on your must-do list.

In London, try to group your sites. You could visit Westminster Abbey and the Cabinet War Rooms on the same day, for example, as they are very close to one another.

Lee Ann

Most of the tourist sites, and most of the tourist infrastructure, i.e. hotels, restaurants, even the Tube, are concentrated north of the river. Kennington is south of the river. That part of London would be considered less pretty, gritty even. It's probably not the first area that tourists would think of staying.

Having said that the reviews for the B&B are very good. It is only a short walk from a Tube station and there'll be plenty of buses to get you where you want to go. If you're happy with the price then I wouldn't worry. You'll be in a part of London that most tourists don't see. And London is so big, so constantly changing, there may well be the most fantastic restaurant just round the corner,

Handy for The Oval if you want to see cricket.

An analogy could be like staying in Brooklyn rather than Manhattan. Maybe.

To add my 2 cents

We've visited London many times and tend to stay outside of the main tourist areas. However Kennington has no "there" there - it has a lovely park but not much else beyond the Oval. And when Janisj said its beyond elephant and castle, she was making a good point that it's a ways away on the tube to any sights.

I realize many tourists like the idea of a B and B but over the years we've changed our minds in that in London. I'd rather be in a bit better more convenient area and buy our own breakfast.

Like many other places, Kennington is cheaper hair good reason. It's not the safest area and no charm of its own .

I've just read this with growing incredulity as well - and i don't know which astonishes me most, the speed of your trip or the fact you want to stay in Kennington. i thought it must be Kensington, but no, Kennington it is. Oh my giddy aunt. how many people do you need to tell you that it's a bad idea? I used to work round there occasionally and I would never have wanted to stay there.

particularly with a crammed itinerary like this, you want to be as near as possible to most of the things you want to see, which, as sofarsogood says, unless you have tickets for every day of a test match at the Oval, Kennington isn't. However good the B&B, the environs and distance from most places you want to be make this a bad choice.

as for your itinerary, can i suggest this:

Sat - arrive LHR. Get train to Bath. See Bath.

Sun - spend early am in Bath, rent car, drive to Salisbury then onto Winchester.

Mon - am in Winchester then drive to Stonehenge and London. [possibly via Windsor]

Tues -London

Wed - London

Thurs - London

Fri - fly home.

louistraveller, I realise that what I [and afew others] have posted might seem a little harsh. it's not meant to be. we just want you to have a good a time as possible.

I do feel that the postings have been harsh.

I'm very surprised that every one is quick to tell me not to stay in Kennington because it is too far or gritty but no one has an alternative. Also, 200 people did not have a problem staying in Kennington and getting to the sights! The neighborhood is described as a leafy, quiet residential neighborhood with convenience to the sights of London.

I guess every one that is saying not to stay feels that 15-20 min on the tube is too far? No one has answered that directly. With Kennington being on the northern line, which I don't know anything about, will there be a change before getting to sights? Can anyone tell me about this?

Also, what is so incredulous about my itinerary? I don't mind taking advice/suggestions but I actually was proud of my itinerary. I thought when arriving we could drive to Bath while taking in a couple of sights: Windsor/Stonehenge then arrive in Bath to stay at a b&b that does have parking. Next morning, eat breakfast and take in the Bath sights by foot. Late evening we can make the two hour or so drive back to LHR to return the car then tube to Kennington. We wanted to see Winchester as a day trip but perhaps I can talk to my dad about possibly taking it out. He is a history buff and I know that London is filled with history but he wanted to take more in of England rather than London if that makes sense. We thought that 3 days, very full days, would be enough to see some major, typical tourist sights.

This whirlwind week is a sampling. I don't know what is so incredulous about it! Please, pinpoint what is so incredulous! Janisj stated that arriving at 7am that we wouldn't be out of there until 10am. I went to Paris in 2008 and was out quickly from the airport. 3 hours, really? What is the big deal in thinking that we could tour Windsor Castle, eat lunch, then see Stonehenge before arriving in Bath for the night? Can this not be done in 12 hours? C'mon...I don't know why everyone is making so much out of this! You mean to tell me that a handful of tourist sights can be see in 3 full days! Of course, if I could I would stay longer but we have a week.

"I'm very surprised that every one is quick to tell me not to stay in Kennington because it is too far or gritty but no one has an alternative."

Alternatives:

Bloomsbury.
South Kens.
Pimlico.
South Bank.
Fitzrovia.

"I went to Paris in 2008 and was out quickly from the airport."

Dang, you got lucky.

Um, don't know what's so "incredulous" about your itinerary but to other posters it seems incredible. Personally, if you can hack it and know what you're getting into, do it. The fact that the old man isn't old means he won't slow you down.

With 5 nights in London, you could probably get a centrally located 2 BR flat closer to the main tourist sites for the same amount as the B&B rooms. Kennington is just a hike and the Tube is faster than the bus, but that's not to be confused with fast.

Bloomsbury would be good - near the British Museum, British Library (another place for the old man), quick access to other main sites (the various squares and circuses: Oxford, Piccadilly, Trafalgar, Leicester) and places there tend not to suck on the pricing scale.

<<Also, I just thought, if you add up train/bus tickets, well there is the gas money>>

Uh, the rental cars ain't cheap - check into what your CC will cover on insurance and what the Brits require. Janis probably knows this off top of her head after she's done doing donuts in the parking lots of Surrey.

Thanks so much Big Russ!!

This is a link to the Tube map. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf
Most sites are in zone 1, you'll see Kennington is in zone 2. You can get directly to areas such as The City and Charing Cross/Leicester Square on the Northern line.

This is the official London visitor site which has ideas for first time visitors www.visitlondon.com

You're not visiting until next May which is ample time to decide if Kennington is right for you. I'm sure others will suggest alternative areas/hotels/ b&bs should you want to change.

And if either the hubby or pops likes whisky - Royal Mile Whiskies' London shop is in Bloomsbury. More rarities than they'll find at the duty free (just pack it well in the suitcase).

My daughters and I literally just got back from our trip to London and Scotland and I can tell you that all the advice I got from fodors was spot on. I'm still in a jetlag fog, which I will admit is worse coming back than going, but I will attest to the affects of jetlag no matter what your age. I am your dad's age and physically fit and my daughters are teenagers and the first day was exhausting. I would not have wanted to be driving on that day. It took us about 1.5 hrs to get through customs and immigration and get our bag. Then we had to get money, oyster cards and hike to the tube.The tube from LHR takes over an hour, more if you're in Kennington since you will have a change. This is a great site for travel in London, www.tfl.gov.uk. The journey planner is great for describing routes and times. Make note that some tube lines are often closed on the weekends for repairs, so if you are there on a weekend you need to check that a few days before. If you can arrange your trip to Bath for later in the week, I recommend it, or take the train if you must do it the day you arrive. Please trust me when I say that everything will take longer than you think. Staying as close to the sights you want to see will make a big difference. We had great luck with the "cities to go" app for our ipad and phones. Get the London map, type in all the places you want to see and you can put a "pin" on it. That way, you can see where sites are grouped together. Make a list for each day in London of the sites you want to see in order of importance. You will likely find that many of the sites will take longer than you think so just be prepared to miss some of the less important sites on your list. We had 3 full days in London and we got to see plenty. We were moving at a good clip though all day every day. We stayed in Soho. We had 3 day trips by train and it was an easy, fast way to travel and you can enjoy the countryside. Your dad may not mind driving, but he won't be able to enjoy the views. I drove for 9 days in Scotland and my kids saw the views, I saw the road and oncoming lorries/busses/sheep. You have time for planning still. Look at all the travel forums, tripadvisor has them too as well as lonely planet, etc. I took info from all of them, and,yes, I used tripadvisor for their reviews also. But, take reviews with a grain of sand and in context. You have experienced UK travellers and local residents here stating their opinions- which you requested. Don't poo poo them out of hand because you have conflicting info. The bnb you researched may very well be lovely, but if the reviews are from people who didn't have anything to compare it to (ie they never stayed anywhere else in London), the accuracy may be in question. Another thing to think about, everything opens later and closes earlier than you expect. Check those times before you go. If you want to return your rental car late, you may find they are only open until 6 that day. The devil is really in the details as they say! We LOVED London and I'm sure you will too��

Louis - to start with, you arrive at 7am at LHR. once you are through immigration and customs [say at least an hour] and collect your car [at least another 30 mins] this will have you leaving LHR in the middle of the rush hour right out onto one of the busiest roads in the world. not for nothing is the M25 known as the world's largest car park. [and yes I know that LHR to Windsor is mainly on the M4 but that is hardly immune from traffic problems at that time of day].

then you will be tired and possibly disorientated after your flight - not the best time to be dealing with that sort of traffic. Even though windsor isn't that far away, it's still quite an ask to drive there straight after getting off the flight, and then, after you finish looking at the castle, just when the jetlag is really starting to hit, for your dad to have to drive all the way to Bath. Driving in the UK just isn't like driving in the US - our roads are a lot more crowded and the traffic is faster, despite the 70mph limit on motorways.

after you've got to Bath, you'll probably find you''re fit for nothing the next day, but you're committed to more sightseeing and driving again. but that's just what you are planning, and you'll be arriving back at LHR just at the dreaded rush hour again.

it just doesn't sound like a great start to a holiday to me. slow down and smell the roses.

I can't imagine choosing to stay in Kensington as a tourist as there are do many better places to stay...but it's up to you...

By Kensington I meant kennington! Stupid auto correct!

I live in in London and would the description on green and leafy would not be how I would describe it. It would not be where I as a Londoner wants to be at night...but again it's up to you. As a tourist I would choose west end, Kensington, bays water etc...

I assumed you wanted to stay in Kennington to save £££. Just shows one shouldn't assume things.

I just looked at the website and it runs £120-£150 double.

Those 200 reviews of the B&B in Kennington are probably all from the proprietors and their relatives.

As a general rule it's good for first-time visitors to a city to stay in a central location. This is especially true if you want to maximize your sight-seeing in a short time.

Jamiekins, Bayswater. (Auto correct struck again.)

ARGH - stupid autocorrect!

I would use the Circle Line on the tube as a guide - try to find a place inside the yellow circle line. If you have a budget of that amount you shouldnt have a problem finding a nice place to stay.

louis, you are not imagining what we know occurs in south England, the place is pretty dense with a limited number of motorways so that they can easily be crowded,

1) if you flight comes in after a bunch of Jamacian ones there will be long queues
2) getting out of Heathrow M25 is "an experience"
3) Traveling on back roads to Stonehenge (and there is no motorway) will be slow
4)driving on narrow roads on the wrong side with stick shift and on coming traffic can be tiring and dangerous after a long jet lagging flight
5) Stonehenge to Bath similar roads

etc etc, so when you ask advice from people (who have bags of experience) either take it, or sack us.

That first day is not one I would do and I'm a Brit.

Just as an example - we met my inlaws at Heathrow, picked up a rental car and drove to Cornwall and it took us 8 hours! Around Stonehenge the multi-lane roads converge to a two lane (one way each way) road and the bottlenecks are unbelievable. We spent an hour just sitting in traffic without moving at all.

janisj: The room I am wanting to stay in at the Kennington B&B is 9/10 which is the top floor w/ a bedroom that has a connecting room which has a queen size sofa bed. Each guest has their own floor so dh & I will have the bedroom while my dad uses the sofa bed. This floor is 150 pounds which is $220.

Mimar: To post a review on tripadvisor you have to sign up for the website meaning your name/email/etc. All of the reviews have a user name/where they are from and some even have pictures. I don't think the proprietor/family members signed up for 200 accounts to post reviews!

jamikins: So traffic is like this always? On weekends?

Well all of your postings have given me a lot to think about. Thanks everyone! I know you all meant well and are trying to steer me in the right direction.

Traffic is not always like that - but I have found that I usually spend way more time than I think when we drive somewhere. An accident can cause a standstill for hours, and with so many more people on the road it always takes longer than I expect. Even the time of day will impact it - rush hour in the morning and evening during the week can add a lot of time. If you use googlemaps to plan your route you should add at least 50% more time to give a good estimate.

I wouldnt want to drive immediately after an overseas flight.

louis, traffic can be like that even early or late at night it depends on what is on, and having sat in queues without reason it can be a real pain

I just looked at that B&B - it is on a very busy main road.

It is very close to Kennington station and there are lots of buses. It's basically a residential area.

I prefer to stay in areas with lots of pubs and restaurants and where I can pop back if I need to drop bags or freshen up to go out for dinner.

You will be relying on the Northern Line or buses to get around. The Northern Line is an absolutely nightmare between 8 - 9:30 in the mornings and 5 - 7:30ish in the evenings, and again after theatre and west-end close down around 9pm during the week. It is so bad that when I lived in Clapham (farther south) I would go even farther south and then change to the northern side so that I could even get on - and people squish on like you would not believe. It wont be an issue if you arent travelling outside the times above, so just keep that in mind.