Regarding car rental:

-It is not as easy to find diesel rental cars.
-Diesel fuel is cheaper by about 15-20%
-Even then, it is like $2/liter
- If you get diesel, do not buy the cheaper stuff advertised on the highways. Stick to Shell, BP, Total or Petrol Ofisi.
- I recommend renting from the bigger international companies, because they will have better maintained cars with less mileage. Also, it will be easier and quicker to get a new car if something goes wrong with yours.
- Reserve with one but, also negotiate at airport offices with the others. October being more like an off season, you may get a good deal on the spot.
- Avis has the biggest fleet in Turkey
- Do not rent a Fiat because they are underpowered.
- Do not rent a Kia or a Hyundai Accent because they are terrible on curves and they are flimsy.
- It will be difficult to find an automatic, but you can.
- If you are willing to pay for it Avis has C class Mercedes.
- VW Passat, Opel Astra, Vectra or the new Insignia, Renault Laguna are excellent choices.
- Ford Focus, Renault Megane, VW Jetta are also good.

Check my posts on tolls and speed limits.

Adu, regarding restaurants, you can check a thread started by Luisah where i contributed extensively, in possibly September or October 2009.

I also have an ongoing battle with a group of DE friends on Trip Advisor forums. They keep on recommending touristy restaurants at Sultanahmet, and I advise against them, because i do not think any of them would make it to even the top 500 in Istanbul. I may also have listed some of my recommendations for another traveler whom i met earlier this year, Paragkash.

I like cooking and eating and compete in my fantasies with Charlie Trotter and Joel Robuchon.

If you wish, i can also advise some decent local wines, although my wife is better in that area.

I disagree with otherchelebi when it comes to car rentals. We had a Kia in Turkey and had no problems with it. We had a Fiat Brava diesel in Sicily this past Spring, and it definitely was not under-powered; our friends said that it brought out the Sicilian driver in me. While Turkey tends to have wider roads than some back roads in the EU, I still would rent the smallest car available short of the Smart car, if the car is a standard shift. I thought that the Kia was too large for our purposes; a smaller car would have been cheaper as a rental and would have used less fuel--I would have preferred the equivalent of a VW Polo or a Peugeot 206.

Michael, you are not "disagreeing". You are just giving your opinion which differs from mine. People have their likes and dislikes regarding cars.

I write my suggestions on the basis of safety advice and knowledge of local conditions and statistics, because i am involved in risk management and insurance, and not on the basis of a personal experience of a few days.

And , you cannot get the fiat Brava diesel that you liked in turkey. the Fiats in Turkey range between 70-95 HP, meaning they are under-powered.

I rented a Mercedes B160 in the United Kingdom last April for six days, and never thought that this gave me a license to recommend or not recommend the safety or cornering ability of for example the Indian version of that vehicle. You could of'course read some of the reviews of the cars available in Turkey for rental in some of the local car magazines, if you want to come out as an expert.

I thought you has said on an earlier thread that you had rented a hyundai and not a Kia. :)

Sorry Michael, i just went back to your report and read about the old Kia you rented whose radio fell off on the first day. I apologize for replacing Hyundai with Kia.

Here's what I wrote in my trip report:

<i>We got the car, which was a Kia Rio standard shift with a diesel engine--bigger than the VW Golf that we anticipated (here's a photo of the trunk: http://europetogo.yuku.com/reply/8810#reply-8810) and definitely bigger than what we needed.</i>

I suspect that most tourists are not the fast drivers, they are the slow ones on the road, even if they have "adequately" powered cars. The Peugeot 206 felt under-powered to me when I had it after the Fiat, but I got used to it. Turkish roads were not crowded, and the power to pass on short notice and quickly was rarely if ever needed.

Under certain circumstances, the experience of only a few days is perhaps better than general statistical knowledge because that is what the traveler will experience. I generally do not comment about my home town because I do not experience it as a tourist; and the same goes for a couple other locations where I feel "at home", and am no longer a tourist.

Thanks, I found a past posting with many of this group's reataurant recommendations.

Thanks Michael for a very interesting perspective on posting and rental cars and statistics and your evaluation of Turkish roads.

Adu,

if i can get you out of Sultanahmet for dinner, let me know your likes/dislikes, budget and the maximum distance you are willing to travel for good food, and i will give you at most three recommendations, so that you will not be faced with a tough decision. (you can send me a PM on Trip Advisor)

If you walk down from the Grand bazaar towards the Spice Bazaar, through Tahtakale (where you should be exchanging your money), a little towards Rustem Pasa mosque, on a narrow side street off the street which has the famous traditional Coffee seller, is a tiny hole in the wall grilled meatball place, called "Filibe Koftecisi" Have their meatballs with a side salad of Great Northern White Beans with onion (i do not like the parsley on it) for a very reasonable price.

you will also find other meatball places near the Sirkeci train station, on the main road and at the first side street going up towards the governor's Offices. They are not bad either but i prefer the Filibe one.

By the way, it just occured to me that most forget to visit the old central post Office in Sirkeci. It is tremendous. You can buy all available stamps at a window on the left side back wall if you are a collector, as well as some first day stamped envelopes which you can use to post to people you wish to impress.

Thank you.

We will be staying in Istanbul for about a week. We are experienced independent travelers and are considering a few hotels in the Sultanahmet including El Paino and Hotel Sapphire.

We will also be staying one night on the Asian side because we have an early flight from Goksen airport after arriving from the States.

We would like to spend for the two of us approximately $50 US for our main meal. In the past we would have lunch out and buy this and that as we travel around the city which we would put into our backpacks and eat diner what we found in room.

We literally eat everything and when we travel we always want to the eat the foods of that country or region.

We will walk the city besides the usual sights and take a municipal ferry. Since I am unfamiliar with the city and the transportation, I do not know how far we wish to travel.

Thank you for your interest.

Mark and Margot:

You're in for a great adventure. In reverse, i drove the same route on one of our visits, Cap to Eph, stopping overnight in Egirdir. If you like the feel of being the only tourists in the vicinity, the lakes are for you. We rather enjoyed that feeling after coming through Konya and stoping in Egirdir..everything was as we expected until a tour bus with forty Texans showed up, dashing our non-tourist isolationist feelings to the ground. We stayed at a rundown hotel in the center of town, along with the forty other tourists.

It was early spring and the lush fruit trees were all in bloom, orchard after orchard on the lakesides. We were not the least bit sorry that we took in the lake district...but "dull" is in the mind of the beholder.

....love the call to prayer....
I'm going to recommend what we consider to be one of the best vantage points in the Islamic world to hear the call to prayer. The<b>Pierre Loti Cafe</b> overooking the Golden Horn in Istanbul...get there (by taxi) at 4:45, have some mint tea sitting at the outdoor tables with a smashing view. At 5, though slightly out of sync..the call will be coming from mosques all over the city. Truly dramatic. (see selected, scanned Turkey pics below).

It's good that Aduchamp and his lovely wife will be a week behind you. It will therefore be your duty to warn shopkeepers along the way that they're coming...renowned world class shoplifters, as they are!

Have a fun trip, M & M...you're going to have a stressful time sorting out all of the above expert, well-intentioned material. You might do well to stop now, take a deep breath and do the rest of your research on your own.

stu tower http://picasaweb.google.com/stuarttower/ScenesOfTurkey#

Dear Stu

I never thought you should share our criminal records with the world. Even the prosecutor did not know how you hide that refigerator in your pants.

Mark and Margot,

Adu has the right idea in packing something or having street food during the day and leaving the evening for a better meal. However, if you are close to one of the recommended cheap eateries, it will make sense to stop to rest, knowing that the service will be fast.

istanbul is an excellent city (though not as much as for example Bangkok) for street food. You can buy good cheeses and terrific tomatoes at grocers which will go very well with the round sesame buns called "simit" sold at most street corners in glass enclosures on tripods. The typical fast food of grilled cheese or cheese and sausage (sucuk) sandwiches are also good. Some gyros are excellent. You should decide on the basis of the smell and the number of customers.

- Here are some easy suggestions:

if you are going to visit Fatih mosque, Chora church and the extremely religiously conservative carsamba area of istanbul, and do not mind some half hour of walking, take a cab to Oz Kilis Kebapcisi and start this adventure having started with a full stomach and a satisfied smirk on your face.
Order "eech-lee Kof-tae", "So-aan Lah-mah-june", shish kebab and "fis-tik-li kebap" and a "que-nae-fae" for dessert.
check address on the web.

If you are in Nisantasi area, almost diagonally across from the police station is the tiny "Haci Bey" which only serves lentil soup and the "is-kaen-der kebap". Eat upstairs but do not stand up to your full hight if you are about six feet or taller.

On Taksim square, at the corner of Istiklal, prefer "Kizilkayalar" among the many fast food joints and try their hamburgers with freshly squeezed pomegranade and orange juice combination.

A bout midway On Istiklal, somewhat across from somewhat across from the grand gates of the Galatasaray high school at the entrance to "Balik Pazari", the fish market, midway, , the first fast food place on your left, "sampiyon Kokorec", has very tasty
- fried mussels
- filled mussels (with a rice mixture)
- and, if you are not queezy, very well prepared tripe fried on a hot plate with cumin, hot red pepper flakes and oregano and served in the freshest Turkish bread bun you can imagine also with diced tomatoes and green chilis.

Here are some pointers for pronunciation of Turkish letters:

C pronounced as J
C with the squiggle underneath pronounced as CH
S with the squiggle pronounced as, you guessed right, SH
E as in 'men'
A as A, AE or as in 'CUT"
I dotted as in "MINK"
I undotted, as the A in the second syllable of "woMAN"

There is no W so V is either pronounced more like a W.

O with dots like the French 'EU'
U as in choose
U with dots, close to the u in "cute", Or forget it americans have difficulty with this but Northern Europeans and Hungarians are very good with it.

All this reminds me that an OP who received hours of language instruction from me for his trip last May did not have the courtesy to write a simple note about his travels in Turkey. There are people like that in my family also, so i am used to it. But it does not mean that i have to bear it without a little squeek like this. A few more such cases and i will seriously try to be more selective on choosing threads to write.

wow, thats a lot of information up there! thank you one and all.
I havent begun yet to research food/restaurants (street food being my huge and delicious temptation!)-- turkish history and language first. But my plan is to eat my way through Turkey! It all looks delicious. I eat just about everything, but tripe stretches my limits. Thank you otherchelebi for language tips, my lessons start on Tuesday-- been awhile since I've been in school.
Soon to rent the car, so thank you too Michael for all of the opinions. I'd stay away from Fiats just based on the old phrase: Fiat: Fix-It-Again_Tony. Hopefully we'll luck out with a small car that has a little pickup.
Tower, nothing like finding yourself stranded with 40 texans, a story in itself. The Pierre Loti regime sounds wonderful. And, youre right, time to take a step back and absorb all of this. Aduchamp: your secret is safe with me.

We rented from Economy Car Rental and received automatic VWs. Pick up at Ataturk Airport. Good cars, no issues. Embarrassed that when first stopped to fuel up could not figure out how to put it into neutral (pull up ring on stick shift lever).

Driving in Istanbul was the most interesting car experience I have ever had. Forget about lanes, more lines of traffic than lanes. Yet, once you figure out the protocol...no problem. Even with the heavy traffic, never saw any accidents. Reading street names...not always possible.

Tip...don't take pictures of Ameican Embasssy in Ankara. I did, at night, with no flash. I had walked a 100' before a guy ran out, shouting at me, and invited me to come back into the embassy. I was with someone who spoke Turkish, so after a little back and forth, agreed to delete picture from camera while he watched.

I am glad Stu did not reveal the real secrets.

Michael Paris

Besides not taking photos of the American Embassy, how about other hints like not pointing a gun at a soldier or cusring Allah in a mosque.

One correction about prayer calls:

The prayers are called five times a day and depending on the time of the year their timing changes.

- first is just before the false dawn
- second at midday
- third midway between midday and sunset
- Fourth at sunset
- Fifth, about 2-3 hours after sunset

It is in the news that both entertainment locations and mosques will be required to reduce the volumes of their loudspeakers, against noise pollution.

<i>I'd stay away from Fiats just based on the old phrase: Fiat: Fix-It-Again_Tony.</i>

Even if still valid, chances are that it will not affect the rental of a fairly new car for a short period of time.

Adu,
I assumed that taking pictures of a public building was not a big deal.

Threatening sodliers or inciting riots...not my thing.

"I am bit of an acrophobic and while I am sure the vantage point will be breathtaking, so will my fear.

I'm acrophobic too as was another woman in our side of the basket. Once I paid for it I was determined to do it but was worried how I'd react but we both got so caught up in the beauty of the region and the feeling of quietly floating through the air that all fear vanished. the top of the basket was above my waist so there was no fear of falling out. It felt very secure.

Our pilot is so skilled that we floated down like a feather onto the back of a flat bed truck -- not even a tiny thump.

But who knows, you might freak out and humilite your wife or do something worse.

Mark and Margot, the cost was $180 for one hour including transporation to and from the site, that's quite a bit lower than in several other countries. However, it might be too much of a splurge for two on a budget. You'll enjoy Cappadocia whatever you do.