About a Week in Germany
 

I'm in the process of trying to put together a trip for this summer. App. 2 weeks.

We have a rule that we don't intend to break. We do not rent a car in Europe. We travel mostly by train and occasionally by bus. But NO CAR.

Our style is as follows; We are not really museum or church goers although we do visit the occasional ones. We walk a lot seeing and/or visiting the sights. While we're not big history buffs sights with historical significance could be of interest. I am an amateur photographer and get up early to wander. Then I get my wife, we have breakfast and do whatever we have planned for the day. We mix local sightseeing with day trips (normally within an hour by train though we might stretch that to an hour and a half for a place of interest) and are not opposed to an overnight day trip where we sleep over while keeping our base hotel. Last summer we did this in France going to Bruges for one night and Tours (chateaux country) for two nights. We probably wouldn't do this more than once during the whole trip.

The first week would most likely have us based in Amsterdam (we've been there twice over a period of many years) and do three or four day trips.

Originally the second part would have us based in Porto, Portugal (we visited Lisbon two years ago and were very pleasantly surprised). For some reason my wife wasn't too excited with the Porto part and suggested Germany where we've never been. We're really open to which city would be our base for the week. We'd lean toward a city that we can get to fairly easily from Amsterdam by train or air, be a return point to the U.S. and one that we would find interesting on its own for a few days.

I'm finding that for a country that doesn't really look all that big on a map everything seems to be far apart time-wise. Maybe it's just me.
I did some research first looking for a base and then looking for day trips from that base.

Rather than bias responses with my findings I'd like suggestions for the base as well as potential day trips.

Thanks in advance.

How about the Rhine Valley? We did a nice approximately week long trip there (all by train) a few years ago. Based in Boppard. I was going to suggest Munich with day trips to Bamberg, Regensberg, Saltzburg, Nurnberg, etc. but Amsterdam to Munich by train is quite long, I think maybe 8 hours. You could maybe break it up with a stop for a couple of days half way between them. Lots of flights back to the US from Munich. We were in that region this past summer (again, all travel by train) but we only spent 3 days in Munich itself and then moved on. You might get some ideas from my trip report (we left Germany and visited Austria and Bratislava before returning to Germany which you wouldn't have time for in a week, but if you took out that middle part and did just the Bavaria part it would fit in about a week).


https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...weeks-1660634/


Previous trip to Rhine Valley - https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...report-804436/

Airports in and around Germany with daily direct flights to some US airports:
Frankfurt, Munich, Berlin, Brussels, Amsterdam, Zurich
Please tell us what are your interests, resp. which area of Germany you plan to visit: mountains, midlands, cities, big rivers like Rhine Valley or Elbe Valley.
You only tell us that you are not particularly interested in History (museums, castles, churches, etc.) and that you don't like areas like Porto with it's medieval city center and the vineyards of the Douro Valley. So you wouldn't probably like the Mosel Valley or the Rhine Valley.
But what are you looking for really?
As soon as we get your feedback, you can make some proposals.

I think we would like the Porto area. But my wife didn't seem too excited having been in Portugal (only Lisbon and Cascais) summer 2017.
We do go to museums but not big museum goers.
Mainly we walk in, around and thru sites. Architecture, street, people, main sites.
My wife has mentioned a river cruise a few times but I'm not enthused with the idea. I'd rather a base and move around from there.
ok. So far Frankfurt seems to have the most to offer for us. I just have to find out if the the city has enough to offer since we wouldn't go on day trips every day. Probably about half.
Frankfurt appears to have an excellent train from Amsterdam taking under 4 hours (10:38 - 14:31) and no changes.
I haven't checked out or had my wife check out any of the destinations relatively near Frankfurt so at this point they are only on the list of potentials due to their proximity to Frankfurt.
Hannau (:20 min)
Mainz (:40) / Wiesbaden (:40)
Rhine Valley day cruise
Baden-Baden (1:20)
Heidelberg (1:00)
Darmstadt (:30)
Koblenz (1:30)
Wurzburg (1:10)
Cologne (1:10)
Marburg (1:00)

I'd be most interested in opinion for the above and any addition day trips.
Thanks.

I'm not sure how the emojis got there but it was not intended.
That list is in no particular order.

Thanks.
IMO, Mainz, a very old city on the Rhine river would be a much nicer place to stay than Frankfurt. The distance from FRA airport is about the same. Enjoy the medieval city center with good German, Italian, Indian... rertaurants and the fruit and vegetables market at the square in front of the cathedral. Mainz is the starting point of Rhine river boats which go down up to Koblenz and stop at many picturesque villages (you can hop on/hop off at any place) like Ruedesheim, Bacharach, St. Goar.... It's easy to combine local train rides, small walks or longer hikes with boat rides. There are alos tons of castles (which can be visited) along the Rhine river.
Trains from Mainz along the Rhine river to Koblenz - Remagen - Bonn - Cologne.
A bit south of Mainz, you find the 2 very old towns of Worms and Speyer, both along the Rhine river and both with cathedrals (very good Greek restaurant in front of the cathedral of Speyer, BTW). At Speyer you can visit a interesting temporary exhibition about the Roman emperor Valentinian and his influence to the Rhine region
https://museum.speyer.de/en/preview/valentinian/
At the sqzare in front of the cathedral of Worms will take the famous Nibelungen Festival (in German only)
ttps://www.nibelungenfestspiele.de/nibelungenfestspiele/2019/Programm/Inszenierung/?navid=406329406329

The Mosel Valley (scenic small towns, vineyards, castles, hiking trails, train and boat traffic) can be visited from Koblenz (1hr by train from Mainz).
In 2 days you can go by boat from Koblenz up to Trier, a more than 2000 years old city with some Roman buildings. Trier is close to Luxemburg, another gem.
Heidelberg (50 min by direct train) and Wuerzburg (2 hrs by direct train from Mainz) are both gems of easy reach. So are Wiesbaden and Frankfurt, of course.

I don't find Darmstadt and Baden-Baden (Spa) particularly interesting.
Strasbourg ( 2 hrs by train) or even Gengenbach in the Black Forest (2 1/2 hrs by train) might be better choices.
Marburg is a nice, rather untouristy German town. Don't expect too much from Hanau, as the historic center was heavily bombed and more or less destroyed in WW2.

For trains, look at regional passes that are dirt cheap and you buy at stations as you go - 2 can ride regional trains, buses and city transports for the whole day for about 30-35 euros total. Train info - www.bahn.de/en - German Railways site - book own long-distance tickets like from Amsterdam at discounts - there may be some kind of overnight train connection A'dam to Munich. www.seat61.com has super info on discounted tickets, passes - general info www.ricksteves.com and BETS-European Rail Experts.

Trier would make a great day trip possibility as well from Frankfurt.

Frankfurt is a large generally modern city with a small restored Old Town. Mot sure I'd want to stay there for a week but yes a god transit center - for smaller towns I really like Heidelberg.

neckervd and PalenQ,
Thanks. A lot of good stuff I'll have to review tomorrow.

neckervd,following your suggestion to stay in Mainz instead of Frankfurt,I looked at the trains from Frankfurt airport and it isn't much longer to Mainz than Frankurt.
I'm a little concerned about the train change to Mainz with luggage. It appears there's a 300 M walk between trains.

I want to compare the positives of each location. Also, will the smaller Mainz have enough to keep us busy for the days we want to relax (whatever that is) and not go on day trips.

Again, thanks for a lot of good info.

Comparing Frankfurt with Mainz, I would ask the other way round: will FRANKFURT have enough to keep us busy for the days we want to relax. And my answer would rather be: No!
Mainz and Wiesbaden (just accross the Rhine river) are much more relaxing and offer much more possibilities to tourists than the trade and banking center Frankfurt.
https://www.mainz.de/en/index.php
https://www.wiesbaden.de/en/tourism/...eing/index.php

The train change at Frankfurt Flughafen is easy: moving staircases, elevators, etc.
But be aware that a train ride by fast train from Amsterdam via Cologne to Frankfurt airport is rather boring (high speed lines in the middle of nothing, noise protection walls whenever you approach a cty or a scenic place). I suggest to take a train which runs along the Rhiver, with good views to river, vineyards and castles. It takes a bit longer, but it's well worth it!
For example:
Amsterdam dp 8.08 - Duisburg track 3 ar 10.06, Duisburg track 4 (SAME PLATFORM) dp 10.13 along the Rhine river to Mainz ar 12.39
Amsterdam dp 10.38 - Cologne track 6 ar 13.15, Cologne track 7 (SAME PLATFORM) dp 13.53 - Mainz ar 15.39
Amsterdam dp 12.38 - Cologne track 6 ar 15.15, Cologne track 7 (SAME PLATFORM) dp 15.53 - Mainz ar 17.39

neckervd,
Thanks for t train info.
These are just the insider things I want to find out.
Yes, one of my first questions was whether Frankfurt would be a good base.
I had a heck of a time finding those train routes. But now I see them.
Why wouldn't that train (the 10:38) run the last half of July and August?

Great advice above. I also recommend the Rhine valley, there's plenty to see and it's closer to Amsterdam than Munich. (Put Munich down for a separate trip.)

We stayed in Bacharach for three days on one trip (there's a great one day river cruise, out and back from there, we went to Boppard and back) and Cochem on the Moselle for three days last September. You have hiking, cycling, castles, castle ruins, old town centers, vineyards, food, and just watching the rivers go by.

Nearby cities that I think are worth a day trip are: Cologne (the cathedral is a 10 minute walk from the train station) and Trier. You'll want to get a guide book soon and start reading up to find the sights that interest you.

Too bad you don't want a car. It's a good way to see the small towns in this area. Driving and parking are easy outside of the big cities. We travel by car so I can't advise on the trains except to say that the rails run right along the rivers and the train ride should be scenic as all get out.

" Why wouldn't that train (the 10:38) run the last half of July and August? "

It runs, but it stops at Koeln Messe Deutz track 12 (ar 13.28) instead of Koeln Hbf.
There is a conneting train from Koeln Messe Deutz track 7 (dp 13.50) to Mainz (ar 16.55) with stops in almost every village along the Rhine river.
Quicker connections along the Rhine river:
Amsterdam dp 10.38 - Duisburg ar 12.41, train change, dp 13.07 - Koeln Hbf track 6 ar 13.15, dp from track 7 (SAME PLATFORM) 13.53 - Mainz ar 15.39
or: Duisburg dp 14.07 - Mainz ar 16.39. This latter solution would be less risky and allow you to have lunch at Duisburg railway station.

Wiesbaden is just opposite Mainz and for a relaxing day look around this popular spa in a park-like setting.

neckervd,
Thanks. More good stuff.
Palenq,
This sounds somewhat like the spa in Budapest.

For a relaxing day out of Mainz instead of in it - of course take the k-d.com boats downstream and take trains quickly back - would not have to move much to have a relaxing day out but of course get off at some wine town for lunch. Stayed in Mainz once and found it an ordinary large city - oh a nice old palace and riverfront but not sure what to do there for 3 days or so - but is a short train ride from Frankfurt.

Map projections make northern placed look small.

Rhine/mosel good areas. For the true old towns focus on smaller ones or ones furthrr from channel which were not bombed. So Ulm's old centre is only partially restored.

Heidelberg is one town not much destroyed in war - some say because Allies planned to use it as their HQs after the war, which they did.

Folks here don't seem to cotton to Heidleberg so much but I thought it really neat - some great walks into hills and great base -easy to take bus to wine towns of Neckar Valley or trains anywhere:

https://www.google.com/search?q=heid...ih=614&dpr=1.5

Even Munich would not be that far a day trip.

You somehow sound as if the highest number of monuments for a town arranged in a coherent pattern would be helpful so the logical options would be Wiesbaden or Marburg though neither is as great as a transport hub as is Frankfurt (Gießen is also very good for that purpose). That aside some of the day trip options posted here are positively absurd such as Gengenbach or Strasbourg (from Mainz? seriously?). The premier easy and cheap day trips from Frankfurt by regional train for coherent old towns are Marburg, Limburg, Wetzlar, Gelnhausen and Seligenstadt as well as Wiesbaden as a grand 19th century city. Other places might have smaller old towns but specific places of interest or no old town at all anymore like Darmstadt but very strong individual sights.

Strasbourg is 2 1/4 hrs by train from Mainz
Fro example: Mainz dp 6.29 - Strasbourg ar 8.46, Strasbourg dp 17.13 - Mainz ar 19.18

Wetzlar is 2 hrs by train from Mainz

Lunitsch,
We have long ended the phase of our travels that involves changing base hotels with luggage 4 times or more on a trip as well as going on day trips that are substantially longer than an hour (could hit 1:30).

Last year we were in Paris (been there maybe half a dozen times over the years) for about 10-11 days but that included an overnight day trip to Bruges (was there about 10-12 years ago) and an overnight day trip to Tours for chateaux country for two nights. I define an over night day trip as one in which we keep our base hotel, leave our luggage and take with very little to carry. We then trained to Aix-en-Provence (had been there about 6 years earlier) before returning home.

The year before we were in Florence and Rome (have been there 2-3 times each) before spending 5 surprising days in Lisbon with a day trip to Cascais.

As you can see this isn't our first trip. We often repeat places we've been to and like and try to add things in those places we haven't gone to or done and then add a place we've never visited.

For this trip, and depending upon what gets changed we'd base ourselves in Amsterdam (we've been there twice over the years but not recently and never really did any day trips from there). Then we'd move to somewhere in Germany where we have never been. At this time the Frankfurt area is the strongest contender.

As we get older we've also adjusted our approach. We definitely pamper ourselves more both in how we travel and where we stay.

Thanks for all of the suggestions and please, please keep them coming. Many are very relevant and all make me think.

I actually based in Darmstadt and really liked it - few other tourists and as any German post-war city very very nice. All those cities are slo close together that staying in one and relaxing in another is not impossible.

When the highest diversity of day trip destinations of appr. one hour by train is your prime concern, Frankfurt will be your first choice.
For a picture-postcard perfect village, go to Michelstadt.
Heidelberg would be another obvious choice for "old Europe", but much larger than Michelstadt.
When you fear timber-frame overkill, go to Würzburg for a dose of Franconian baroque.

Eventually, it will depend on how many day or half day trips you want to take and what you expect from your base.
So far, it's still a bit vague what you mean when you say that your base should offer enough to keep you entertained when your not on those day trips.. restaurants? historic city centers? parks and gardens? shopping?

So far, it's still a bit vague what you mean when you say that your base should offer enough to keep you entertained when your not on those day trips.. restaurants? historic city centers? parks and gardens? shopping?>

And Frankfurt would have as many as any - no castle really but esteemed art museums - some nice parks with hot houses full of tropical flowers and Sachanhousen (sp?) Frankfurt's famous area of pub and restaurants serving its famous apple wine or whatever they call it. And shopping galore.

I think it's a matter of deciding whether to base in the Romerberg area of Frankfurt reasonably close to the train station or in Mainz.
There seem to be pros and cons for both.

I've tried to keep day trips to no more than an hour train ride. However, I could be convinced if worthwhile.

I'm thinking of one of either Cologne or Baden-Baden from Mainz.

Comments on those two would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

I'm chiming in a bit late but--
My husband traveled to Frankfurt many, many times with business; 3 times I joined him and spend days and days traveling solo via trains. I think Frankfurt is a terrific hub--and quite undervalued as a city itself.

1. Check out Frankfurt on Foot--https://www.frankfurtonfoot.com/ It's a walking tour run by a couple of American ex-pats that will give you an excellent intro to Frankfurt's history and some of the major old city sites, as well as the new.
2. As mentioned above, there are some excellent museums along the river. The Botanical Gardens are fine, too, plus as said shopping and strolling and good food.
3. From the central train station, you can do day trips to so much. I love Mainz and would have it high on a list of day trips, but I'd base in Frankfurt; I think you'd have more direct routes.
It took me 2 days to see the Rhine Valley things I picked, via trains and ferries and feet, but in your short week, I'd definitely go once.
Weisbaden, Speyer, Worms, Michelstadt, Budingen, Marburg, Limburg were all faves via train.
Cologne while a bit further ride also has major sites really near the station, so definitely recommend. If go to Cathedral, check if there's an English tour available that day; mine was led by a lady who remembered walking in the rubble of the bombed church as a tiny girl.

If you base yourself in Mainz you pretty much lock yourself in destinations along the Rhine. It's a much narrower range of options than Frankfurt. Mainz is great if you depart from Frankfurt airport and search for a nice more quiet place where you can spend the night before the flight. But I'm rather sceptical about its potential as a base town.
Not sure how Cologne qualifies as a day trip. Even if you don't care about the three main museums it doesn't strike me as a place one can "do" in one day. Unless all you care about is the cathedral. But its main attraction are rather scattered especially the twelve Romanesque churches and certainly less the rather unfortunate rebuilding after the war as a whole. Baden-Baden makes really no sense from Mainz and is one of those puzzling cliches destinations. There are at least 10 places on the way south that are closer and make more sense.

I enjoyed Baden-Baden for a day - but come early to be able to take the tour of the ornate old casino and hear stories about the rich and famous who wagered her around turn of century when Baden-Baden was the lace to be seen and wager. And walk through the park-like setting to a nice abbey at end. But trains only go to edge of Baden-Baden and you take a bus the few kilometres to Baden-Baden.

Cologne Cathedral is awesome - right by train station and great pedestrian shopping area - a vibrant Turkish section and those Romanesque churches but in general a modern town - I'd hit the cathedral area and maybe head to Bonn, a neat city rarely mentioned here and back to Mainz.

I've also noticed that some of the trains for day trips are not very convenient from main but a lot more direct from Frankfurt.

If we were to move our base to Frankfurt instead, in what area should we consider staying and still be convenient to the train station?

Frankfurt also has a Frankfurt-Sud train station in a nice quiet area with trains everywhere.

If we switch to base in Frankfurt we'd most likely want to be reasonably close to the main train station. No more than 15-20 min walk.
We'd also like to be in the tourist area where there are hotels and restaurants.

Any recommendations?

" 've also noticed that some of the trains for day trips are not very convenient from main but a lot more direct from Frankfurt."

Of course!
Mainz is a excellent base for the Rhine axis (Cologne - Remagen - Drachenfels - St. Goar - Ruedesheim - Worms - Speyer - Heidelberg....), for the Mosel Valley, for the Pfalz, for the Hessian capital Wiesbaden, etc.,
but not for Northern Bavaria, Thueringen or most parts of Hessen.

Still undecided about basing in Mainz or Frankfurt.

I'd really appreciate hotel recommendations for both that would have us fairly convenient to the train station while still being in a tourist area with hotels, restaurants and a nice walking around area with people.

Thanks.

The obvious hotels a few steps from Mainz railway station and less than a mile from the historic center with tons of restaurants etc. are
Hotel Schottenhof
Hoel Koenigshof
Hotel Hammer
AC Hotel Mainz by Marriott

Thanks.

Any suggestions for Frankfurt?

Personally, I would much rather come 'home' each evening to Mainz, than to Frankfurt (I have stayed in Frankfurt, Bacharach and St. Goar on the Rhine). Frankfurt is a big metropolis. There are somewhat dicey areas with a number of sex shops and seemingly unemployed men hanging about during the daylight hours.
The two are just 20 minutes apart by rail. So NO major inconvenience in making rail connections for day trips!

mokka4,

Good points.

I think I'm going to review the possible locations to visit and see how much of an inconvenience it is. But I'm back leaning towards Mainz.

Thanks.

I noticed there are two train stations in/around the Frankfurt. When I have to move from Mainz to Amsterdam the train appears to go from Mainz to one of the airport stations and then we have to walk to the other airport station for the train to Amsterdam. There's 22 minutes between train and they've listed it as a 15 minute walk. It doesn't look that long on their map. Is it longer than it looks or are they just being cautious?

The other question.

I'm trying to put together some of the day trips.

I'm grouping a few that look convenient. Any comments on Speyer, Worms, Darmstadt. Is Heidelberg on it's own enough to fill a day or should I add one of the above for a couple of hours?

Regionalbahnhof and Fernbahnhof are not far away from each other (about 300 metres), but you will have to use a long moving staircase (or a escalator) from Regionalbahnhof up to the "square" (way to airport Hilton hotel), walk a few steps and go then down (again staircase/escalator) to the Fernbahnhof.
Deutsche Bahn recommends to count about 15 minutes.

But frankly: I would never take a ICE train from Frankfurt Fernbf to Amsterdam, because the high speed line doesn't go along the Rhine river and you will see almost nothing but noise protection walls.
If you take a IC train from Mainz directly to Cologne, you will follow the Rhine Valley. You can then change to the ICE at Cologne or Dusseldorf.