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A Week in the Bernese Oberland or Somewhere Else?
Season's greetings to Fodorites all around the world. As I expect may be true for some of you as well, festive gatherings involve trading travel stories as well as planning new journeys. We're near committing to a week in the Swiss Alps over the last few days next August (7 to 9 nights), staying at one base, at most two.
We are looking for some place with plenty of easy-to-moderate half-to-full day hike options, up to 8 hours. Our objective is to be in the mountains rather than in the cities, as beautiful as it may be (I've enjoyed the limited time I had in Geneva many years ago). A good bit of our research has pointed us to the Bernese Oberland, although it seems like late-August may still be crowded in this part of Switzerland. I'm interested in feedback from those who've visited the Oberland during this time of year, and how crowded it was, as well as suggestions for other parts of the country that perhaps we should focus on instead of the Oberland. Thank you. |
I haven't been in Switzerland in August, but assuming the weather and crowds permit, I agree that the Bernese Oberland would suit your interests. That said, you might also look at the Engadine, upper or lower, or if you split bases, half in each. GORGEOUS and. I think, much less crowded as a rule than the Bernese Oberland.
Hope that helps! |
Hi tripplanner001,
Yes, I agree with kja above -- it would be worthwhile investigating the Engadin if you can only travel in August. While both areas may be crowded, I've found the crowds to be different. In the BE, the crowds are more like gawkers, with cameras, who sort of congregate at souvenir shops and at scenic vistas. In the Engadin, the crowds are more likely to be German-speaking families of hikers, geared up and heading to a cable car or trailhead to start a hike. Not to say there aren't hikers in the BE, just that there are many more folks who are mainly interested in snapping a few fabulous photos. I found there to be far fewer souvenir shops in the Engadin towns I stayed in/visited. I hope Melnq8 will pop in and link a few of her Trip Report threads, which are very informative. Have fun as you plan! s |
Personally, I'd avoid the Berner Oberland like the plague in the summer months. We haven't been to the BO for several years, but when we last visited (December) it was uncomfortably busy even then.
Switzerland has seen a marked increase in tourism over the last few years and the BO is one of the most visited areas, as most first timers head there for the reasons swandav has mentioned. Fortunately, Switzerland is full of beautiful areas and many are well off the tourist path. You'll find excellent hiking just about anywhere. We're fans of the Engadine too, although we've only visited during summer once, as most of our trips are Sept-Oct and late Nov-Dec. There were no crowds when we were there, but it was early June, which is a bit early by Swiss standards. With a bit of research you'll find many beautiful areas that will suit your hiking needs. You'll find several detailed trip reports from our many visits to Switzerland by clicking on my screen name and scrolling down through my trip reports. Our local resident and transport/hiking expert neckervd will no doubt have plentiful suggestions for you as well. |
"Switzerland has seen a marked increase in tourism over the last few years"
According to the official satistics: 35 million nights in the year 1980 37 million in 1990 35 million in 2000 39 million in 2020 42 million in 2024 |
Bernese Oberland:
There is some overtourism around Interlaken, Lauterbrunnen-Muerren-Wengen-Grindelwald. But the biggest part of Bernese Oberland is not concerned. Hiking Trails: There are more than 40 thousand miles of well signmarked panoramic hiking trails all over Switzerland. Areas with big clusters of mountain hiking trails, running mountain railways, rope railways, gondolas and frequent local buses:: Verbier Haute Nendaz Crans-Montana Gstaad Lenk Kandersteg with Loetschental (which can be reached from K'steg by train and bus in 30 min) St-Luc (Val d'Anniviers) Zermatt (more than 300 miles of trails, some of them in Italy) Sas Grund - Saas Fee Riederalp-Bettmeralp Lauterbrunnen-Muerren-Wengen Grindelwald Hasliberg Engelberg Airolo (rather noisy and not scenic at all) Flims-Laax Lenzerheide/Lai Arosa Klosters-Davos Scuol St. Moritz - Celerina - Pontresina Possibilities get much bigger if you don't mind to move a bit by frequent local trains or buses in order to reach other trails. You could then check places like Les Marécottes, La Fouly, Ferret, Evolene, Grimentz, Zinal, Fiesch, Andermatt, Disentis, Poschiavo..... At most places visited predominantly by Swiss and German people, high season ends mid August |
neckervd
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We spent a week-plus in the Swiss mountains in late August of 2022, including some time in the Berner Oberland. We stayed in Kandersteg, which is in a different valley than the most popular part (Lauterbrunnen, etc.). We didn't find it that crowded. By contrast, we went to Grindelwald one day for old times' sake (we had a memorable family trip there in 2002), and it was quite a a bit busier.
On that same trip, we spent four nights in Saas-Fee, which we loved, and I don't think we scratched the surface with hiking. The few trails we did hike were quiet. There were people around in town, but it was nowhere near as crowded as the BO, and it seemed like many were there for the summer ski school and/or summer skiing on the glacier. Zermatt, a valley over, was jammed with people, however. All that said, I'm not sure our experience in August 2022 is comparable to today, as it seemed like things were still returning to normal from the pandemic. It's been a few decades since I was in the Engadin, but it's definitely on our radar. |
Thank you everyone, as always. This seems to confirm what I've read so far about crowds in the Bernese Oberland, in which case we will avoid. Seems like the Engadin is the recommendation, but it may be crowded too?
kja, while I'm drawn to the scenic vistas and the myriad day hiking options there seems to be, we won't enjoy it if we will be dealing with crowds everyone. When you say the Engadine is gorgeous, do you have favorite parts in mind? swandav2000, you seem to suggest that crowds in the Bernese Oberland congregate at scenic viewpoints while crowds are along the trails at the Engadine - is this what you mean? In other words, we are more likely to get away from crowds on the trails in the Oberland than in the Engadine? Melnq8, your trip reports are on my agenda to review. Given that most of your trips are outside of the summer, as you mentioned, I wonder how much different it would be in August. neckervd, based on the number, it does not look like the jump in numbers is that great. Perhaps Switzerland has been crowded for a while but I don't recall that in 2010. ms_go, I will look into Saas-Fee and other places, but I'm wondering if going to Switzerland in August is a bad idea these days. |
Copy of a list of hiking areas I sent you some 8 hrs ago and which is ttill hidden by a moderator:Bernese Oberland:
There is some overtourism around Interlaken, Lauterbrunnen-Muerren-Wengen-Grindelwald. But the biggest part of Bernese Oberland is not concerned. Hiking Trails: There are more than 40 thousand miles of well signmarked panoramic hiking trails all over Switzerland. Areas with big clusters of mountain hiking trails, running mountain railways, rope railways, gondolas and frequent local buses:: Verbier Haute Nendaz Crans-Montana Gstaad Lenk Kandersteg with Loetschental (which can be reached from K'steg by train and bus in 30 min) St-Luc (Val d'Anniviers) Zermatt (more than 300 miles of trails, some of them in Italy) Sas Grund - Saas Fee Riederalp-Bettmeralp Lauterbrunnen-Muerren-Wengen Grindelwald Hasliberg Engelberg Airolo (rather noisy and not scenic at all) Flims-Laax Lenzerheide/Lai Arosa Klosters-Davos Scuol St. Moritz - Celerina - Pontresina Possibilities get much bigger if you don't mind to move a bit by frequent local trains or buses in order to reach other trails. You could then check places like Les Marécottes, La Fouly, Ferret, Evolene, Grimentz, Zinal, Fiesch, Andermatt, Disentis, Poschiavo..... At most places visited predominantly by Swiss and German people, high season ends mid August |
Some 5 hrs ago, I sent you a long list with descriptions of Swis hiking areas. It is still hidden by a moderator.
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neckervd
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Originally Posted by tripplanner001
(Post 17620685)
kja, When you say the Engadine is gorgeous, do you have favorite parts in mind?
My visit was at a rapid pace, with (by choice) walks of no more than 4 hours IIRC, but I found both the upper and lower Engadine breathtaking in different ways. I also included the magnificent Convent of St. John in Mustair in that part of my wonderful month in Switzerland. From my trip report: Day 14: Take the Bernina Express [I had been in Lugano] as far as Pontresina and then go to Mustair (night in Mustair). Day 15: Visit the Convent of St. John, move on to the Lower Engadine and visit Schloss Tarasp, walk from the castle to Tarasp-Vulpera, move on to Guarda (1st of 2 nights in Guarda). Day 16: Explore the Lower Engadine: Walk from Guarda to Ardez, visit Lavin, Scuol, and Sent (night in Guarda). Day 17: Move to the Upper Engadine; visit Diavolezza; night in Pontresina (1st of 3 nights in Pontresina). Day 18: Visit the Val Bregaglia: Take the bus to Soglio, walk to Castasegna and then through Bondo to Promontogno; return to Pontresina (night in Pontresina). Day 19: Walk from Muottas Muralg to Alp Languard; explore Pontresina (night in Pontresina). Day 20: [Leave the Engadine], taking a train through the Albula Pass .... |
Another vote for the Engadine that I never found to be crowded - not even in August (but don't stay in St. Moritz proper.) The Upper Engadine is at higher elevation but - surprisingly - feels like a wide open valley, while the Lower Engadine is at lower elevation but has a narrow valley floor (the villages are at the sunny slopes, mostly a bit higher up, though.) Both have their highlights. The Upper Engadine has more glaciers, the incredibly beautiful lakes. The Lower Engadine has the more beautiful (unspoilt) villages and is even less visited.
Some favourites in the Lower Engadine: - villages: Scuol, Guarda, Ardez, Sent - hikes: gondola to Motta Naluns - Prui - Ftan - Ardez (- Guarda maybe); Sent - Val Sinestra - Zuort - Vna; Pass dal Fuorn - S-charl; Pass dal Fuorn - Lü - Müstair; Buffalora - Munt la Schera - Il Fuorn - sights: castle Tarasp, convent Müstair (UNESCO world heritage site), National Park visitor center Some favourites in the Upper Engadine: - villages: Zuoz, Pontresina, Sils - hikes: Muottas Muragl - Alp Languard; Furtschellas - Marmore - Fex - Sils; Murtel - Fuorcla Surley - Hotel Roseg; Maloja - Lake Cavloc and back; Sfazu - Lake Saoseo and back (all these have variations - shorter or longer) - sights: museums in St. Moritz, churches in Pontresina and Celerina, viewpoints Diavolezza, Corvatsch, Muottas Muragl by cable cars, Bernina train ride - excursions: Bregaglia valley with village Soglio, Poschiavo, maybe Tirano with Bernina train Another plus IMO is that hotels in the Upper Engadine give you a card that includes bus, train and cable car rides in that area during your stay. If you stay in the Lower Engadine you ride the buses and trains in that part of the Lower Engadine for free (around Scuol e.g.) or you can buy a Graubünden pass which includes trains and buses in the whole Engadine (plus Bregagle and Poschiavo and even some neighbouring Austrian and Italian valleys.) |
Thanks again, everyone. Seems like we could base ourselves in the Engadine for the full 7 to 9 nights, perhaps splitting between Upper and Lower. Of the different suggested bases, would any be easier if we are relying on public transit and hope to walk to restaurants and shops?
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UPPER ENGADIN
Buses between Maloja - Sils Maria - Surlej - Silvaplana - Champfer - St. Moritz - Celerina - Pontresina - Diavolezza cableway and from Samedan to Celeriona - St. Moritz - Silvaplana - Surlej run at least every 30 min. So do the trains between St. Moritz - Celerina - Samedan - Zuoz- S-chanf Trains from St. Moritz to Pontresina - Diavolezza cableway - Bernina run every hr. So, public transport is no problem. You find groceries and restaurants in every village. There are restaurants at all cable car stations and along hiking trails. Jewelries, luxury clothes shops and banks at St. Moritz only. ATMs are omnipresent |
In the Upper Engadine all the villages have excellent bus and/or train service. I would base the decision where to stay on my prefered direction of excursions/hikes. If more toward Bernina pass then Pontresina is best, if more around the lakes and Bregaglia valley then Sils or Silvaplana. Samedan is another favourite of mine, mostly a place for locals and a railway hub.
In the Lower Engadine Scuol is the place to stay. Transportation hub, charming upper and lower village, inbetween a lively main street with shops, grocery stores, restaurants/cafes and - I forgot to mention in my previous post - the wonderful mineral spa. If you don't want to change bases then Zuoz would be a good village to stay, sort of half way between Upper and Lower Engadine (belongs to the Upper). Charming, quiet, train station, hotels, apartments, grocery etc. Just keep in mind it will be a half hour plus/one hour plus train ride to your points of interest. |
neckervd and Ingo, danke schon. Which part of the Engadin will give us snow-capped peaks and lakes?
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Upper Engadin for sure. Some old photos for illustration:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...42786acf9f.jpg Muottas Muragl, toward Bernina massif https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...7482e5f8e9.jpg Muottas Muragl, toward the lakes https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...5902b2f927.jpg Piz Bernina and Piz Roseg from Fuorcla Surlej https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...597fcee824.jpg Bernina train ride, Piz Bernina from Montebello curve https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...390d68bba3.jpg Bernina train ride, lake Bianco https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...87d669fa3f.jpg Bernina train ride, view from near Alp Grüm |
Last picture of Ingo: Lake Palu, along he hiking trail Bernina Diavolezza railway station - Cavaglia railway station - Cadera railway station - Poschiavo.
There is another lake (Lake Caralin) behind the rocks where the creek comes down (hiking trail from Lake Palu). There are no glaciers worth to talk about in the Lower Engadin. There are big glaciers more in the East, however: Orltes.Cevedale group (along the border between Valtellina, South Tyrol and Trentino), Oetztaler Alpen (20 - 40 miles East of Scuol). |
GLACIERS IN UPPER ENGADIN
All peaks and glaciers in the area are part of the Bernina group, along the border between Upper Engadin (Switzerland) and Malenco Valley (Italy). I suppose you know that this glacier area is more than 7times smalller than that in the Canton of Valais (Mont Blanc - Matterhorn - Monte Leone, Hohsand Glacier/Gries Glacier, Aletsch Glacier - Fiescher Glacier). Unless in Valais, there are no hiking routes over the glaciers. But you can hike up to the board of the glaciers (and often the same way back): Diavolezza gondola staton - Pers Glacier Morteratsch bus and railway station - Boval Hut SAC (Swiss Alpine Club) - Morteratsch Glacier Murtel gondola station - Fuorcla Surlej (restaurant) - Coaz Hut SAC - Roseg Glacier Maloja bus stop - Lake Cavloc- Forno Hut SAC/Forno Glacier Albigna gondola station - Albigna Hut SAC - Albigna Glacier. Conclusion: all starting points for hikes to glaciers are along the bus lines I mentioned in post 16 above. For Glacier views only, you can go to any rope railway or gondola station: Muottas Muragl, Covriglia, Piz Languard, Lagalb, Diavolezza (the best), Corvatsch (second best), Furtschellas, Albigna In the Italian part, there are some good glacier hikes in the Scerscen Glacier area, but for that, you should sleep in Italian CAI (Club Alpino Italiano) Huts. |
Thanks again neckervd and Ingo. This is very helpful.
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Seems like we could base ourselves in the Engadine for the full 7 to 9 nights, perhaps splitting between Upper and Lower. Of the different suggested bases, would any be easier if we are relying on public transit and hope to walk to restaurants and shops?
You absolutely could base in the Engadine for the full 7-9 nights and I strongly suggest that you do. We grappled with where to base in the Engadine on our first visit in 2014, and ended up splitting our 10 nights between one base in each the Lower and Upper Engadine. We chose Scuol and Samadan, which worked really well for us and made for a nice introduction to each area without spending too much time getting from one end to the other. We were able to explore the Upper Engadine from Samadan and the Lower from Scuol. We have returned to Scuol 3-4 times since and have also since based in Zuoz and Celerina and are considering Zernez for our next visit. All towns in the Engadine are walkable, but of course it depends on where your accommodation is located - Scuol, Pontresina and Zuoz are hilly, so you'll want to be careful where you choose to stay, especially if looking at apartments. There is local bus transport in each town as well though, so it's easy enough to get around once you figure things out. We found Celerina the perfect alternate to St Moritz - it's a short hop away by train or bus and a much more sedate (and less expensive) place to base. I'm not a fan of either St Moritz or Pontresina, but that's just me. Here was my first impression of both: St Moritz - We were amazed at the cavernous heated parking area and the incredibly long enclosed escalators that rose from the train station to transport the well-heeled up to town, not to mention the Zamboni-like floor cleaner being driven in circles across the massive floor space. All of this instantly confirmed what we’d heard about St Mortiz, validating its reputation for glitz and glamour. Playground of the rich and famous aside, I’d read that St Mortiz was a charmless concrete jungle. Concrete yes, but we found plenty of charm, particularly in the town center, although I’d be lying if I didn’t admit that the sheer size of the hotels was a bit of a shocker. Pontresina has a population of about 2,000; I was expecting a smallish village; so the large hotels clinging to the hillside were a bit of a surprise. |
Thanks Melnq8 and Happy New Year. Appreciate the feedback.
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I'm resurrecting this thread as we're now leaning into a potential trip to Switzerland the last week of June and the first week of July, thanks to Melnq8's most recent report as well as leifield's although I'm looking at older reports as well. When researching at accommodation options in Sils Maria, I am also getting results in Sils Baselgia and Silvaplana. Which would be better for walking to restaurants and walking in general?
Also, would lifts and cable cars generally be open in the Engadine this time of year or will we be too early? I understand it is weather-dependent but am looking for a general sense of what's been the case in recent years. Thank you. |
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All these places are linked by very frequent local buses (and nice hiking trails too).
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Adelaidean, thank you. Looks like some of the lifts may not open until later in June, so something for us to consider.
neckervd, thank you. Are Sils Maria, Sils Baselgia, and Silvaplana similar in terms of walking and restaurants too? |
tripplanner -
Here's a map of the area that might help you get your bearings: https://schweizmobil.ch/en/tour/1898538464 https://www.gosur.com/map/switzerlan...8055&t=streets And an explanation of Sils and Sils Baselgia: Sils Maria and Sils Baselgia: Our village has two names because it includes two localities. Sils Baselgia grew up around the church of San Lurench. It was first mentioned in 1356 and still stands today. «Baselgia» is derived from basilica (church). In Sils Maria, the larger part of the village, there used to be a large dairy. The name «Maria» does not refer to the proper name, but to the term dairy. «Sils» means something like green mat, long strip of fields. This also referred to the Sils Lake Plain. It is still a «green mat» - thanks to landscape and nature conservation and the awareness of these values that the Sils population carries within themselves. Sils is nestled in the plain between Lake Sils and Lake Silvapana. The municipality of Sils includes the three Maiensäss settlements (a high mountain settlement with lush pastures to which farmers moved for the summer) of Grevasalvas, Blaunca and Buaira as well as the hamlets of Plaun da Lej and Val Fex. Perhaps the most beautiful of these, Grevasalvas, lies high above Lake Sils and was the picturesque backdrop for the film «Heidi». https://www.sils.ch/en/guide/sils-in...llage-portrait You can easily walk between Sils Maria and Sils Baselgia (10-15 minutes), but Silvaplana is a bit further on (3-7 miles depending on route). If you stayed in Silvaplana, you'd need to take a bus to/from Sils, although you could walk around Silvaplana easily enough. I've not stayed in Silvaplana (or Sils for that matter), but Silvaplana strikes me as more of a winter resort with lots of condos, etc. Here are some town maps you can look at: https://www.engadin.ch/en/reports/town-maps |
We stayed 5 nights in Wengen late July last year and saw few hikers in the mountains although it was crowded in the valley below. Typically we would do a 2-4 hour hike in the morning, have lunch and do the same in the afternoon and I would guess we might see 15-20 people on each hike. I would not say the hikes are crowded at all. Even the valley floor which is flat was not crowded
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Melnq8, thank you for this awesome information.
mjs, thank you for letting me that the crowds may not be as bad as I imagine. I was leaning towards the Engadine, but now understanding that we may be too early in the season, we're considering the Oberland again. Is the Lauterbrunnen Valley (Wengen, Murren, etc.) generally more expensive than the Engadine? Didn't know how much the crowds may inflate prices if at all. It seems so at least with what I am finding with accommodations. |
Is the Lauterbrunnen Valley (Wengen, Murren, etc.) generally more expensive than the Engadine? Didn't know how much the crowds may inflate prices if at all. It seems so at least with what I am finding with accommodations.
In my experience accommodation can be higher in the Jungfrau region, yes. Supply and demand. However, I've found that grocery stores within the same chain (Coop, Migros) have pretty much the same prices from town to town throughout Switzerland. Migros is generally less expensive than Coop; Aldi and Lidl are always less expensive, but only found in bigger cities. Restaurants run the gambit price-wise. Some Coop and Migros locations have cafeterias which are a good option for lunch as well (also bigger cities). Costs can be contained a bit by researching and utilizing travel passes, self-catering meals and/or taking advantage of the Mittagsmenü at restaurants - fixed price lunch menus, taking advantage of any regional transport passes offered by accommodation (such as the Engadin Card), and considering half board (breakfast and dinner) offered by hotels. Bakeries are also a good option for picnic lunches, etc. |
Melnq8, thank you so much. Your reports make me want to go more and more.
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I was in the Engadine in early June 2013 -- specifically, June 6 to June 12. Granted, weather is difficult to predict, but I thought it perfect -- enough snow on the mountain tops to be absolutely spectacular; early wildflowers galore; rushing streams.
I was in the Bernese Oberland shortly thereafter -- June 14 to June 18. Some of the trails around Wengen were closed because of a late season snowstorm. Otherwise, again, perfect. I prefer the Engadine. |
kja, thank you.
Has anyone been in the Engadine around June 20 to 30? What were the trail conditions like? I know weather is unpredictable but knowing some of the lifts and cable cars do not open until the last days of June makes me think there may still be snow on the walking trails and a bit too early for longer day hikes. |
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Trail conditions Engadin.
Every year is different. But generally speaking, mid June until mid September means summer. Everything open, Snow only in higher areas where very few people go to. Crowds: The Wengen-Grindelwald etc.area is only about 1 1/2 hrs by train or car from Bern (connurbation with about 1.5 million inhabitants). Therefore, there are always tons of daytrippers from this area (at least if the weather is fine). They go of course to the easiest and most scenic trails, like Wengen - Maennlichen, Wengen - Kleine Scheidegg, First - Bachalp - Faulhorn, First Grosse Scheidegg, Eiger Trail, Gruetschalp - Muerren, etc, often with kids, dog and buggy. You don't find this kind of tourists in Engadine, because the area is too far away from the next big centers like Lecco, Como, St. Gallen or Zurich |
Melnq8 and neckervd, thank you. Currently working on which day hikes we want to do, weather permitting, to decide how we split our time between the Upper and Lower Engadine. The majestic peaks and lakes of the Upper call to us but we would also very much enjoy the small villages of the Lower.
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I wouldn't plan too much in advnce.
Well signposted hiking trails are omnipresent in the whole Engadin Valley (and beyond up to Livigno, Bormio, Stelvio, Müstair Unesco site medieval monastery, Soglio........) The most scenic village of the area is Guarda in the Lower Engadin (Engiadina Bassa). From there a easy panoramic hiking trail leads to Ardez - Ftan - Scuol, The village of Scuol is a gem too. Scuol has a castle and afamous alpine thermal spa where you can relax after the hike. Trains from the Upper Engadin (Engiadina Ota) to all these villages at least every hr (about 1 hr journey) |
We had a fabulous week in Scuol in June one year,
if you can bear wading through my photos of that trip, there’s a chunk of the lower Engadine in there https://flic.kr/s/aHsmEas4pP |
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