I broke down and opened my 95' Lynch Bages. I should've waited, but after all this talk today...I just had to.<BR><BR>Everyone enjoy your wines tonight!<BR>Bon Appetit!

Rex: it is not your knowledge of wine I was recommending (certainly your thoughts about wine would be welcome), but, rather, your bent for organization that would be helpful in establishing a wine segment for those of us that are inclined without imposing on those that simply want travel information in it's purest form. Perhaps I am making too much about the need to be circumspect in establishing such a wine segment. Maybe all that is required is the word "wine" in the heading to let everyone know the content. <BR><BR>Anyway, we have gone from good wine to wonderful food already. I just read the last few posts to this thread and I have to go eat now. Pretty mundane though; barbequed ribs with a good Pinot Noir. I would be embarresed, except, I love ribs.

Hi Again -<BR><BR>Wow, I'm really glad I started this thread! I'm getting so much more information than I ever thought I would.<BR><BR>I will be printing this out and making notes.<BR><BR>We were watching Wine 101 from FoodTV on tape today. I've watched it twice already but it's amazing the little details you miss the first time around. It's great to learn about how the labels are read.<BR><BR>Thanks for everyone's input. I look forward to more reviews.<BR><BR>Lynn<BR><BR>:-)<BR>

I guess I understood that, joe - - and I take no offense if you take me for (barely past?) a wine "rookie".<BR><BR>But I think I understand what you want better now - - you just want a signal - - something that says - - this thread is not strictly related to Europe travel - - but rather about wine (or movies, or whatever)...<BR><BR>Well, taking a cue once again from the Yahoo! stock market boards - - there is a common courtesy there when the "subject at hand" starts drifting off of the "real" topic (the stock/company for which the "board" exists) - - people routinely start a new post with "OT:" - - which stands for Off Topic - - as in - - "OT: what about that dress Juliette Binoche wore to the Oscars?"<BR><BR>Of course, we can just use the words "Off Topic" - - or start our own new acronym OTTOET - - (off the topic of Europe travel) - - meaning that this thread is not really related to Europe travel - - except in the sense of "something else" Fodorites might find interesting.<BR><BR>Still, I don't think we want the board diluted by threads on so-and-so's favorite new book, song, car, clothes, delia's catalog, whatever (whoops - - we already have 4 out of 5 of those!) - - I suspect that there are good message boards about wine - - along with "good living" - - which we could visit if we wanted to - - and personally I don't think I ever would. I am interested in talking about wine to the extent that it feeds into memories or plans of travel across the pond. You?<BR>

Lynn-<BR><BR>I was thinking about the wine 101...is this the episode where they take you behind the scenes to a wine tasting? If it is, wasn't it hilarious!?<BR><BR>They were showing all these people swirling and sniffing and nostrils shoved deep in a glass and said, 'Why do they call these wine tastings, when they are clearly wine smellings!?" And not to be snobby about the entire 'process' to just enjoy it...it was really good basic informtaion, with a laugh or two to go along with it!<BR><BR>Joe- Take it from a girl from the south, there is NOTHING wrong with BBQ ribs!<BR><BR>IMHO if wine and food and travel are related, we should keep sharing info.?

Hi, Lynn.<BR><BR>We're headed off to France next month and will be visiting caves in Burgundy (including Beaujolais), the Southern Rhone (Gigondas, Cairanne, Vaqueras, ChN de P.), other parts of Provence such as Bandol, and also Languedoc.<BR><BR>I'd be happy to share our experiences then. (IF I come back!)<BR><BR>--Lynn

If you receive the Food Tv newsletter via e-mail, there are three great wine focused articles today: Shopping with confidence, wine and food no-no's, and my personal favorite, how to deal with the sommelier!<BR><BR>Lynn, will you let us know how your vineyard visits go, as well?<BR><BR>Wendy

Finally I can post! <BR> <BR>Wendy - Yes, it was that same show you describe. Some parts where pretty funny. <BR> <BR>Joe - I have to second Wendy's comment... There ain't nothin' wrong with ribs! <BR> <BR>As far as wine goes, I've noticed a few people mention Georges duBoeuf. We tried a couple of those and thought they were pretty good. I guess they are from the Beaujolais area? From a comparison we did at home (we had a Beaujolais and a Rhone) it seems that the Rhone was much earthier/mushroomy and the Beaujolais was fruity/berryish and very easy to drink. The Rhone was drier. Is that generally the case with these two? <BR> <BR>New question.... <BR> <BR>What are the main differences that makes an older wine better? If you've seen that movie Heartbreakers, Sigorney Weaver orders a '67 Merlot in one scene and it made me wonder; what makes the '67 better than the '97? <BR> <BR>Thanks for the new info. <BR> <BR>Lynn <BR> <BR>:-)

I hate to say too much about wine because each time I learn one thing it leads to two dozen more things that I'm ignorant about. The Georges duBoeuf wines are generally consistent, reliable and very reasonably priced -- particularly for French wines here -- so they make great "every day" table wines. That said, these lower-priced wines generally tend to be very straightforward; there is not a lot of complexity to deal with. I drink them all the time -- Chardonney, Syrah, Beaujolais, Merlot. (By the way, there are some higher-priced wines from Georges duBoeuf too. I'm talking about the lower-priced stuff exclusively here). Not all wines age well and something like the duBoeuf Merlot can be suffering on the rack at a time when a fine Bordeaux might be just beginning to be worth thinking about trying. I bought several cases of 1990 Bordeaux in 1998 and it was wonderful, but that particular label was past its prime by 2000. So you have to know more than "a '67 Merlot" to know if you're talking about something that's worth more -- or nothing, for that matter. If it tastes good to you, I say drink it now. There's no guarantee that it will be just as good two or three years from now. It COULD become even better, but perhaps not. Some wines age gracefully for decades. For me, I have just never been sophisticated enough to appreciate some of the very old stuff I've tried. It's not that it had gone bad, but it simply would not be worth a premium to ME. On very rare occasions, I've had some real nectar, however -- happily, always as a guest... As for the Chardonney, drink it young. Best advice: get a book or two and keep trying things as you learn more. Also keep in mind that there has always been and will always be an "Emperor's New Clothes" quality to most discussions of wine. If YOU like it, that should be what really matters.

Thanks Jim - <BR> <BR>We go to our local wine merchant once a month (as well as the supermarket here and there) and buy things to try. <BR> <BR>I think I'll go over there next week and tell him I want a "sample kit" of three or four wines that I can try that will demonstrate the effects of aging on wine. That should be a good start. <BR> <BR>Anyone else have any comments on this? <BR> <BR>Lynn <BR> <BR>:-)

I don't know how you can conduct an "experiment" on aging with 3 or 4 bottles of wine unless you have the most extraordinary "taste memory" in the world. And any aging "experiment' should really be based on having "proper" wine storage - - under 55-60 degreees Fahrenheit, side-lying and proper humidity. <BR> <BR>But your wine merchant should be able to suggest some wines for which he has different vintage years already - - thus they have already been aged different lengths of time. Some wines vary a fair amount from one year to the next, but not all do, and he can probably suggest some wines that were considered "nearly" the same in quality and character over the past decade - - and "throw out" the exceptional (very good or realtively weaker) years. Buy some of the same wine from pre-1995 and post-1995, and see what you think for yourself. It may or may not help to read what wine "experts" thought about the two vintages - - though this can lead to your tasting what somebody else tells you is "there". <BR> <BR>Last of all, the taste of any two wines will almost always be affected by how long it has been open, the temperature of the room, whether you are too warm or too cool yourself, the foods you are eating at the same time, and the "social" atmosphere. <BR>

GREAT question! First of all, I'm aplogizing in advance for not giving you a technical answer...Unfortunately there is no precise answer on how to know when to drink the wines you buy. I am still learning and like Jim said,"I learn one thing it leads to two dozen more things that I'm ignorant about"...it is so true! I had lunch with a noted wine sommelier on Friday, and asked about some of the wines I bought TEN years ago, thinking he'd say, "Wow! Good buying! Those will age beautifully." Wishful thinking! My Haut-Marbuzet, he said, I should have had ALREADY, it is PAST its prime, my Haut Lafitte is ready to drink now, and my Lynch Bages (that I stupidly opened the other night) needed ten more years!Argh!! So your question prompted me to call him to find out, that wines are all created differently. Land, climate, soil, rainfall in a particular year, blended/not blended, and storage temperatures/methods, all play a part in how a wine will turn out...making some years better than others. <BR>Travel also affects wine greatly, and therefore, wine is extremely fragile and with all these variables, wines can be affected in many ways. Red Burgundies and Pinot do NOT like travel and need time to 'rest' before opening! Considering how many wines there are in the world, it isn't surprising that the entire process of wine is a complicated one. The majority are meant to be enjoyed in the first one to five years of their lives. However, some need chilling and breathing to bring out their bottled potential, and also allows you to drink them at their optimum. Old wines are not always good wines. The rare bottles being auctioned off, or sold (at this restaurant on Friday? $1,250 for Petruse)are fascinating, but valuable old bottles of wine are even rarer than valuable antiques, because unlike antiques, wine is perishable. It all has to do with the makers decisions of the balance of tannins. Certain young wines are made to be that way, drinkable young...like Beaujolais Nouveau, it REALLY should be opened immediately after the November release and is 'bad' by January-February. Bad meaning, it is past it's potential to be it's best. Certain older wines need longer-The best years that Bordeaux has seen will need 20-30 years to be at it's peak, or 'optimum'! 82,86,89,90,95, and 96. If I'd known that before I opened my 1995 Lynch Bages, I'd have been better off. So knowledge helps...A real myth is that young wines taste bad. Older wines like the 1967 you mentioned are made to age longer and tannins soften as they age...sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. When it does, the price goes through the roof, because it is so rare! I met a man who was so thrilled with a LaTour tasting last year, that he bought many cases only to realize he'd be long gone before the wine was ready to drink at its optimum! <BR> <BR>So, given that it is a complicated, perishable, expensive business this is where the advice is to drink what you like! If you put a 1999 on the counter, it too could be the worst time to drink it and the 1998 bettter, all you need to do is ask and pray you are being told the truth. Buy what you like and if you can't afford such 67' wines, then your range of choice is even larger! I'm certain, if I ever in my lifetime, had the good fortune to taste the 67' Merlot, it WOULD be fabulous! But, fabulous for the storage, blending, climate and terroir for 1967! There are just as many wonderful wines perfect to drink for their year too! One of the biggest mistakes is that most of us drink red too warm and white too cold! So, drink enough varieties of wines to know what you like and don't...and enjoy without worry you are missing something in an older wine! <BR> <BR> <BR>

Lynn, GREAT question! First of all, I'm aplogizing in advance for not giving you a technical answer...Unfortunately there is no precise answer on how to know when to drink the wines you buy. I am still learning and like Jim said,"I learn one thing it leads to two dozen more things that I'm ignorant about"...it is so true! I had lunch with a noted wine sommelier on Friday, and asked about some of the wines I bought TEN years ago, thinking he'd say, "Wow! Good buying! Those will age beautifully." Wishful thinking! My Haut-Marbuzet, he said, is PAST its prime, my Haut Lafitte is ready to drink now, and my Lynch Bages (that I stupidly opened the other night) needed ten more years!Argh!! So your question prompted me to call him to find out, that wines are all created differently. Land, climate, soil, rainfall in a particular year, blended/not blended, and storage temperatures/methods, all play a part in how a wine will turn out...making some years better than others. <BR>Travel also affects wine greatly, and therefore, wine is extremely fragile and with all these variables, wines can be affected in many ways. Red Burgundies and Pinot do NOT like travel and need time to 'rest' before opening! Considering how many wines there are in the world, it isn't surprising that the entire process of wine is a complicated one. The majority are meant to be enjoyed in the first one to five years of their lives. However, some need chilling and breathing to bring out their potential, and allows you to drink them at their optimum. Old wines are not always good wines. The rare bottles being auctioned off, or sold (at this restaurant on Friday? $1,250 for Petruse)are fascinating, but valuable old bottles of wine are even rarer than valuable antiques, because unlike antiques, wine is perishable. It all has to do with the decisions of the balance of tannins. Certain young wines are made to be that way, drinkable young...like Beaujolais Nouveau, it REALLY should be opened immediately after the November release and is 'bad' by January-February. Bad meaning, it is past it's potential to be it's best. Certain older wines need longer-The best years of Bordeaux will need 20-30 years to be at it's peak, 82, 86, 89, 90, 95, and 96. If I'd known that before I opened my 1995 Lynch Bages, I'd have been better off. So knowledge helps...A myth is that young wines taste bad. Older wines like the 67 you mentioned are made to age and tannins soften as they age...sometimes it works and the price goes through the roof, because it is so rare! So, given that it is a complicated, perishable, expensive business this is where the advice is to drink what you like! If you put a 1999 on the counter, it too could be the worst time to drink it and the 1998 bettter, all you need to do is ask and pray you are being told the truth. Buy what you like and if you can't afford such 67' wines, then your range of choice is even larger! I'm certain, if I ever in my lifetime, had the good fortune to taste the 67' Merlot, it WOULD be fabulous! But, fabulous for the storage, blending, climate and terroir for 1967! There are just as many wonderful wines perfect to drink for their year too! One of the biggest mistakes is that most of us drink red too warm and white too cold! So, drink enough varieties of wines to know what you like and don't...and enjoy without worry you are missing something in an older wine! <BR> <BR> <BR>

Lynn, GREAT question! I'm aplogizing in advance for not giving you a technical answer as there is no precise answer on how to know when to drink the wines you buy. I am still learning and like Jim said,"I learn one thing it leads to two dozen more things that I'm ignorant about"...it is so true! I had lunch with a noted wine sommelier on Friday, and asked about some of the wines I bought TEN years ago, thinking he'd say, "Wow!Those will age beautifully." Wishful thinking! My Haut-Marbuzet, he said, is PAST its prime, my Haut Lafitte is ready to drink now, and my Lynch Bages (that I stupidly opened the other night) needed ten more years!Argh!! Wines are all created differently, land, climate, soil in a particular year, blended/not blended, and storage temperatures/methods, all play a part in how a wine will turn out...making some years better than others. Travel also affects wine, therefore, wine is extremely fragile with all these variables.Red Burgundies and Pinot do NOT like travel and need time to 'rest' before opening! Considering how many wines there are in the world, it isn't surprising that the process of wine is a complicated one. The majority are meant to be enjoyed in the first 1-5 years of their lives. However, some need chilling and breathing to taste their potential and allows you to drink them at their optimum. Old wines are not always good wines. The bottles being auctioned off, or sold ($1,250 for Petruse)are fascinating, but valuable old bottles of wine are even rarer than valuable antiques, because wine is perishable. It all has to do with the decisions of the balance of tannins. Certain young wines are made to be drinkable young, (Beaujolais Nouveau)and REALLY should be opened immediately after the November release and is 'bad' by January-February.(past it's potential to be it's best)Certain older wines need longer-The best years of Bordeaux will need 20-30 years to be at its peak, 82, 86, 89, 90, 95, and 96. If I'd known that before I opened my 1995 Lynch Bages, I'd have been better off. A myth is that young wines taste bad. Older wines like the 67, are made to age and tannins soften as they age.Sometimes it works and the price goes through the roof, because it is so rare! So, given that it is a complicated, perishable, expensive business,buy what you like and if you can't afford such 67' wines, then your range of choice is even larger! I'm certain, if I ever in my lifetime, had the good fortune to taste the 67' Merlot, it WOULD be fabulous for the storage, blending, climate and terroir for 1967! There are just as many wonderful wines perfect to drink for their year too! One of the biggest mistakes is that most of us drink red too warm and white too cold! So, drink enough varieties of wines to know what you like and don't...and enjoy without worry you are missing something in an older wine! <BR> <BR> <BR>

I'M SORRY! This old/new forum kept telling me it didn't go and then it went three times? Really, it wasn't that important!

Holy SCROLL BAR, BATMAN! Wendy's post was so nice, she entered it thrice... But good stuff anyway. One thing I really enjoyed in France was visiting tasting rooms in a couple of out-of-the-way chateaux. These were private and arranged by a friend over there who discusses wine with near-religious passion and perhaps even a bit of superstition thrown in at times. He keeps around 800 bottles in his cave; a collection he characterizes as tiny. There is hardly a more pleasant way to while away an afternoon than wine tasting and takes all of the guesswork out of selecting labels that you will enjoy. You'll learn about the various methods employed in producing and aging wine and you will gain a whole new appreciation for the art and science of it all. Sadly, my favorites turned out to be some that have no negotiantes in North America. I suppose I will just have to go back.

Jim, <BR> <BR>Who were those favorites, if you don't mind sharing? <BR> <BR>Merci.

What a fabulous thread! I did a search for "Berry" because I'm thinking that's where we'll spend most of our time when we go to France in late May. This thread came up, I guess because of "berry" flavors in wine, and I've been glomming down all your wonderful posts for the past half hour with my tongue hanging out. I may have to rethink our itinerary for next month! Thanks, guys, for a great thread! <BR>

For all you Bordeaux fans, the word from France is that the 2000 vintage is shaping up to be the best in very many years. Prices are of course headed for the hills. Buy now!

Hmmm...I guess when I visit the vineyards in Chianti, we'll notice a difference between that wine and my husband's home made stuff, huh!!!!