A Journey Called Wine...
 

Greetings -<BR><BR>I have not posted on this forum for awhile as we have been traveling to Asia lately.<BR><BR>However, I have a question for all you wine lovers.<BR><BR>We have only begun trying different wines in the last year and are truly novices. In the past, I would have said people are crazy to love red wine but now, I find myself gravitating from white to red and from sweet to dry. I've been told this is generally what happens but was very surprised when it happened to me.<BR><BR>We are planning a trip back to France within the next 2 years (our trip this year is going to be Thailand) and plan on visiting some wineries; something we wouldn't have been interested in doing in the past.<BR><BR>So, what are your favorite wine locales in France and why?<BR><BR>What do you look for in a good red wine?<BR><BR>Thanks in advance for your comments.<BR><BR>Lynn<BR><BR>:-)

My favorite two places are always tied between the place I've been last and the place I'm going next. and it might not be the place that produces the wine I like best.<BR><BR>I guess it's too easy to say I like the Bordeauz region best, but not necessarily to visit.<BR><BR>For a place that has recently caught my eye, and I think must be a great destination in one of the terrific French red wine regions (the southern Cotes du Rhone) - - see this thread:<BR><BR>http://www.fodors.com/forums/messages.cfm?fid=2&amp;tid=1287686&amp;numresponse s=6<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

Welcome to the world of reds!<BR><BR>I started out drinking Bordeaux and a really hard time drinking anything else for a while. For my personal tastes I'm not a big fan of licorice and spice in my reds.I looked for full-bodied reds with lots of sexy fruit, bold, complex, robust, chocolate/earth/coffee/leather/mushroom aromas and most importantly a silky texture with a very longgggggg finish. I liked most of these with gamey meats like lamb, rabbit, duck and pheasant, strong cheeses and chocolate. <BR><BR>I enjoyed cycling and hiking through Bordeaux once, and did some picnicing along the banks and among vineyards...on the left bank, (St.Estephe, Pauillac, St. Julien,and Margaux) is where the soil is mostly gravel so I get that earthy flavor from the Cabernet Sauvignon, but they take years to mature and eventually to be able to drink. But when you do drink one...WOW! Life is good....!<BR><BR>Happier grown in clay on the right bank are the plummy Cab and/or Merlot based St. Emilion and Pomerol. These you can drink much sooner than the Left Bank.<BR>Latour and Haut Marbuzet were wonderful chateaux for visiting and tasting. I used to never spend less than $20 on a bottle of wine or more than $75. (Was I nuts or what!?)<BR><BR>Last year I discovered Burgundy (or in French 'Bourgogne') where the soil is mostly limestone and clay, and it is still hard to find a good Burgundy tough, as the region only produces about 25% of what Bordeaux produces. <BR><BR>The big red grapes here are the Pinot Noir and Gamay- producing Beaujolais and Burgundy reds I enjoy very much for the berry and mushroomy aroma and then the silky texture with coffee and leather joins in. (You asked about reds, but mentioned you like whites as well? White Burgundy is AMAZING: tastes like peaches, honey, and butterscotch)This area is so beautiful I am trying to schedule in a walk through Burgundy in September after a barge trip.<BR><BR>And then I just recently found out about a very good INEXPENSIVE red wine; Cotes du Rhone and have enjoyed them greatly as an everyday table wine and cannot believe how far I've come as my new favorite is only $6.99 a bottle. $5.99 if I buy the case! This is the Grenache grape that produces the full robust earthy tastes I like.<BR><BR>South of the Perigord/Dordogne I liked Pecharmant, Cahors both full-bodied wines... <BR><BR>All these regions are wonderful for touring and seeing, although I prefer Burgundy to Bordeaux and the Dordogne and Provence are good as well! Although you have crossed over to reds, don't forget roses and Alsatian whites, especially Gerwurztraminer (great with asian spicy foods)...<BR><BR>Bon Voyage! Let us know where you end up going!<BR><BR>Wendy<BR><BR>

Hello Lynn, I find that I am starting to like reds better than whites. I am not a wine expert, but I know what I like. I love a good beaujolais(nouveau too). Wendy: I like the Cotes du Rhone too. I like a fruity wine and it should be smmmmoooooth. I love a Pinot noir made here: Villa Mt. Eden. Delish. Had some last nite. Judy :-)

Wendy, thanks for the wonderful post and the description of your metamophosis in the world of wine. It is very similar to my own and you're absolutely right -- it is very often NOT about how much you pay. As for touring in the region, I doubt that anyone interested in France, its history and its lifestyle would be disapointed with a visit to St. Emilion -- it's lovely. The wines in the region are top-shelf and I would recommend a long look at some of those from neighboring Fronsac for fans of red Bordeaux. It doesn't seem to have the same recognition as a St. Emilion commands on a label but I would personally consider it worthy of it. Your biggest problem: trying to get enough of that wonderful stuff back with you, since you can buy such fabulous wine so cheaply in France -- much with labels that you will never find in the U.S., for any price.

Jim,<BR><BR>You know the solution to getting wine home from Europe - - start pumping iron!<BR><BR>See the threads<BR><BR>http://www.fodors.com/forums/messages.cfm?fid=2&amp;tid=548963&amp;numresponses =25<BR><BR>http://www.fodors.com/forums/messages.cfm?fid=2&amp;tid=1267613&amp;numresponse s=15<BR><BR>and<BR><BR>http://www.fodors.com/forums/messages.cfm?fid=2&amp;tid=105613&amp;numresponses =8<BR>

Wine is labeled differently in Europe than in the U.S. and its good to know what some of the main varitals or grapes used in regions are. The Rhone wines are becomming very popular and they are wonderful. There are a few grapes but Syrah is the red that so many people are starting to enjoy and it is a premier grape of this region as is Voigner for white and Grenache for rose and red. Syrahs can age beautifully, (and by the way Shiraz for Australia is the same varital)<BR>Pinot Noir and Chardonnay are the biggies for Burgundy and Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot are the premier reds for Bordeaux. But in all of these regions there are grapes not used here and many of the really good wines are blends of different grapes.<BR>Italian wines are starting to get more respect which means the prices will go up. 1997 was a phenomenal vintage for Italy so I try to get those, but that's getting harder. Multipulciano reds are outstanding and last night I had a '97 Barbera D'alba that was fabulous. The best part of traveling in Europe for me is the wine. Even the cheap ones are good. The bad part is much of what I drink over there is not available here as it is produced in tiny family wineries.

Thanks to everyone who has responded.<BR><BR>I read all the replys to my husband this morning and we both really enjoyed hearing all the details, especially from Wendy. Great descriptions!<BR><BR>We do still like having a white wine once in a while but are really leaning towards the reds. Cotes du Rhone and Beaujolais are both favorites of ours right at this moment. We have tried a few we really like.<BR><BR>Wendy - I thought it was very funny you mentioned the Gewurztraminer, I tried one at Christmas (a Fetzer given to us by a customer) and liked it very much. That's usually what I reach for when I'm in the mood for something chilly and sweet. I have a bottle I'm saving for my birthday next month. It's a 1999 vinted (is that a word?) by Andrew Rich. The wine guy (at Wine Exchange in Orange, California) told me that this Gewurztraminer would dump all over the Fetzer. We'll see. I plan on comparing the two. The Fetzer is less than $10 for a normal sized bottle. This other one was $15 for a 1/2 size bottle. I'll have to report back when I try them.<BR><BR>Keep the comments coming.<BR><BR>And if anyone needs info on Thailand, Hong Kong or Singapore, email me.<BR><BR>Lynn<BR><BR>:-)

Betsy-<BR><BR>I too had a Montepulciano Red last night and I bought while there in February! We also tried the 1994 La Grola Valpolicella that I brought back from Venice (I bought it after having it with dinner at Da Fiore)and it was quite good.<BR><BR>Although these Italian reds are wonderful and they are increasingly growing in popularity, character and quality, I still prefer the French reds for now...<BR><BR>Jim-You are right...St. Emilion is where I could spend my afternoon today for sure!<BR><BR>I spent three months on various South African vineyards and they too, were getting better and are still are! La Motte Vineyards had an incredible wine called Millinium that I WISH I could get my hands on now! I shared those few bottles with friends at a dinner party in Provence, and I should have saved one...isn't that the way it goes?<BR><BR>The only way to get to know wines is to try as many as you can...I'm afraid there aren't enough lifetimes to know them all...but I'm up for trying!<BR><BR>Judy- I wonder if I get Villa Mt. Eden here in DC? Is it really smoooooth? What did you have to eat with it?<BR><BR>Best, Wendy<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>

Your experience is normal and a progression that happens to a great many of us. If you've just made the leap and as you say are currently enjoying Beaujolais, then a trip there may be right for you. Georges duBoeuf has a "wine amusement park" in Romaneche-Thorins. Although mostly in French, it is an interesting place and will heighten your awareness of the crus of Beaujolais. The villages of Beaujolais are quite beautiful and you can drive and picnic throughout the regions. <BR><BR>Another region I think you'll enjoy at this level is Tuscany--primarily the Chianti regions. When first drinking reds, the lighter style reds such as Chianti and Beaujolais are often the first appreciated.<BR><BR>As your palate progresses, you'll develop a fondness for more complex red wines, including Bordeaux, Burgundies, Rhones, Super Tuscans, Piedmonte, etc. A trip to Bordeaux will enlighten the wine drinker. The experience will be rewarding, especially if you concentrate on a few estates that you prefer. My favorite is Lynch Bages and the private tour and tasting that we received there remains one of my favorite wine adventures of all time. I would recommend staying out among the vines, not in Bordeaux proper. We stayed at Cordellian-Bages, a Relais &amp; Chateaux in Pauillac, next to Lynch Bages and owned by the same family. To sit in their dining room and drink aged Lynch Bages out of their cellar was a truly amazing experience. They also have a wine tasting school, Ecole du Bordeaux and will arrange all your private tours and tastings. There's a new Relais &amp; Chateaux just opening on the right bank which I can't wait to try out. <BR><BR>The estates in Bordeaux are fairly large operations for France. To get a sense of small wineries and the lives of the vignerons, try Burgundy. Here you'll experience more one-on-one visits with the wine makers and growers. Many will not have large (if any!) staff, so be respectful of their time. The terroir in Burgundy produces a wine range of wines and you can easily spend a week+ here alone. <BR><BR>The Rhone Valley/Chateauneuf-du-Pape also offer fabulous wine tasting adventures. Our recent visit to this area again increased our knowledge of these wines. Recent vintages have been excellent and excellent restaurants abound in this region.<BR><BR>A visit to Piedmont really opened our eyes to the experiences of a great Barolo. This region is similar to Burgundy in that there are a great number of very small producers.<BR><BR>Our next trip in a few weeks will be staying on a wine estate in Umbria!<BR><BR>Remember that visiting wine estates in Europe is much different that travelling to the Napa and Sonoma Valleys. There are very few places that you can tour and taste at that do not require appointments. Most of the tours and tastings are free. And know your prices before you go as they can be higher than in the States (Bordeaux especially).<BR>

Wendy - have you taken a trek out to Corridor Wine in Laurel, MD? It is right off the BW Parkway at Rt 198. The selection is extensive and displayed by varietal and country. We've been working our way through the Zinfandel section for the last year and half. 1997 was a good year for both Italy and California. This weekend we're drinking a 1997 Beringer Zin that is just delightful. About $10/bottle at Magruders, so I expect Corridor has it for less. I've always loved Bordeaux, we started drinking 1970s over 20 years ago which started a lot of us off into dry reds for life. Celebrated the New Years Eve birth of our daughter in '77 not with Champagne but a Margaux. In anticipation of our trip to Italy we've been sampling Italians. Whites don't travel really well, although I like Pino Grigios, but the reds -- mmmmm! Actually, you can take a nice little drive through Northern Virginia and visit some surprisingly good wineries. We love Barboursville (their Barbera and Sangiovese are very tasty) and another small place we found, Sharp Rocks (if I remember right).

What a delightful thread. And, so many knowledgeable people. There ought to be a fodors.com-like board for wine lovers. Does anyone know of one?<BR><BR>With all that has been offered here, there is no need for me to add my two-bits worth except to say my favorite varietal is Pinot Noir, Burgandy is much more interesting to tour than Boudeaux and I had a lovely Louis Bernard Cotes-du Dhone last night as a tryer to see if I will by more. I will. <BR><BR>Lynn, thanks for starting this thread. It has been very enjoyable.

Yes Wendy, it was that smmmoooth. Lovely wine, and Wine Spectator gave it a good review...big bonus -is it is not expensive around 10$. I made frutte de mare in a red sauce over pasta. We also had a very good '97 chianti with it, a Nipizzano reserva. IMHO, Atlanta wine stores are getting better wines in lately. When I was visiting my daughter in Richmond, I went into a Wine Mart... it had a huge variety of French wines...I loved it and bought a case home...I should have bought more. If I were very rich, I would have a great wine cellar! Judy ;-)

Joe,<BR><BR>I was JUST thinking the same thing about a wine discussion! I find that I respect the Fodor crowd on food and wine, because it DOES go hand in hand with travel, and what better way (IMHO)to discover and learn...so let's say we keep it here? I too have learned much from the others! And I too, am a fan of Pinot Noir...<BR><BR>Lori-Thank you for the reminder to mention that it is ABSOLUTELY correct about making a reservation in Europe...at least in my experience in France and Italy, and in knowing that you are coming, they go out of their way to stop what they are doing to share what they know with you. Many times, I have been in family cellars, and been asked to join them for dinner (an once an outdoor reception in the vines at dusk!)<BR>They take it very seriously when asked to share their wines with you, and being respectful of thier time is the first step to paving the road to a wonderful visit...and hopefully return!<BR>Lori, you are very well informed and I am certain need no advice on your upcoming trip to Umbria. I spent the entire month of November and February based in Umbria doing nothing but interviewing vineyards and olive mills, if you have any questions or if I can make some restaurant suggestions? No doubt, this area is unspoiled and beautiful, you will have a wonderful time! Keep us posted on your findings? <BR><BR>Diane, THANK YOU! I did got to the Virginia wine festival last year, but being immediately new to the area, I didn't really know what I was looking at...so much time in Europe and not enough in my own back yard! Are you in the area? I am a member of several wine organizations here in town that do fun events...<BR><BR>Judy- I am off to find it! I'm doing a parmesan porcini rosotto tonight and this sounds wonderful...(as did your meal!)I grew up close to you in Atlanta, and still have my accent.<BR><BR>Lynn- YES! Thank you also for the great thread! Glad you and your husband are enjoying it, I am!<BR><BR>Is anyone else traveling on a wine trip any time soon? I don't know if I can stand the wait to do Burgundy in the fall!<BR><BR>Wendy<BR><BR>

Wendy: Graet idea. For most people food and wine are a part of travel. There probably ought to be some basic ground rules so as not to impose on those who are not interested. One that occurs to me is proper lableing of each thread so that it is easily identified as wine oriented. Rex with his generally comprehensive approach, would probably be a good person to come up with the details. I am sitting here already anticipating the great wines I am going to find through such a sharing of information and I am sure Fodors wouldn't mind. Rex, care to start?

Yes, any ideas?<BR><BR>I'd love to know what others are drinking and preparing with them!? <BR><BR>This thread prompted me to sit out in the sun for a few hours and re-read some recent Wine Spectators to research my trip to Bordeaux next Spring...some of the beautiful descriptions of these wines and remembering those fragrant green vineyards illuminated by sunshine under blue skies made me want some now and it is only 4 o'clock! <BR><BR>One of my favorite sounds in the world is the cork as it is being removed, especially in a restaurant, it will stop me midconversation everytime and put a smile on my face...."Good wine is on the way!"

Joe, Wendy:<BR><BR>Don't get me started. This falls, IMO, squarely in the arena of "things that could be done with this forum, if only "we" (somebody?) had the time (money? resources?) - - the question is - - to do it with volunteer (synonyms: de-centralized? unregulated? chaotic?) efforts - - or to persuade Fodor's that there is merit in having someone paid to do it.<BR><BR>A starting point for this (but applicable to SO many aspects of Europe travel is a list of "meaningful" key words that could be applied to threads, in a consistent and rational way - - going beyond "just countries".<BR><BR>Ideally, it would be branched and hierarchical, with broader and narrower designations, as needed:<BR><BR>Transportation<BR>_ _ Driving in Europe<BR>_ _ _ _ Car rental<BR>_ _ Train travel in Europe<BR>_ _ _ _ Sleepers/overnight train travel<BR>_ _ _ _ Train security<BR>_ _ Air travel<BR>_ _ _ _ Intra-europe air travel<BR>_ _ _ _ Passenger comfort/safety<BR><BR>Gastronomy<BR>_ _ Budget dining<BR>_ _ Fine dining<BR>_ _ Regional cuisines<BR>_ _ _ _ Perigord<BR>_ _ _ _ Haggis<BR>_ _ Vegetarian dining<BR>_ _ Wine and wineries<BR>_ _ _ _ French wines<BR>_ _ _ _ _ _ Alsace<BR>_ _ _ _ _ _ Bordeaux<BR>_ _ _ _ _ _ Bourgogne<BR>_ _ _ _ Italian wines<BR><BR>and so on - - it's a very big undertaking, but there is such a wealth of information on this forum, that it might be "worth" the effort - - oh god - - reminiscent of those questions - - is it "worth it" to go to Barcelona?<BR><BR>For now, this (and countless other) thread(s) are "okay" for the hit-or-miss volley of information that is inherently transient and ephemeral. I am NOT obsessed with wine - - I don't collect labels or corks, and I can't always remember what something tastes like - - I have never been a "student" of what are "good" vintage years for certain appellations, but any given month, I might have a "discovery" to share - - or would love to hear about yours.<BR><BR>For over a year now, my latest "jag" has been to find wines that taste like many of the fond memories I have of certain European wines, but produced here in America. I have not yet ordered any wines over the internet - - favoring instead to talk my (half dozen) local wine merchants, and support/encourage them in the acquisition of new labels. and besides, they get bombarded by ideas daily of new wines that might be interesting.<BR><BR>If you are interested in internet wine sources, let me suggest www.cal-italia.org - - I am especially fond of two (out of dozens and dozens of) labels I have discovered (in my local stores) that appear there: Pietra Santa (Sasso Rosso - - mmmm - - yummy) and Il Podere dell'Olivos (I like the Barbera, which is cheaper, better than the Refosco). The latter has SO many varietals still for me to try. I would like to try their Teroldego, as well as maybe some whites.<BR><BR>Although not part of the cal-italia syndicate, there's a new label that is an offshoot of the Mondavi family called Danzante which produces a Pinot Grigio and a Sangiovese - - I've bought one bottle of the Sangiovese, but haven't tasted it yet.<BR><BR>Finally, I am also very impressed with an Indiana wine (believe it or not) called Heritage - - it's as fine as many good Bordeaux. It's a blend, in the "Meritage" family.<BR><BR>Well, this will no doubt add to my motormouth reputation - - but as Dr. Betty says - - writing is therapeutic.<BR><BR>Best...<BR><BR>R<BR>

Okay, I'm back -- now that I've selected a cut of beef, a loaf of bread and I've pulled a bottle of the "every day" Georges DuBoeuf syrah off the shelf for dinner. So thanks a lot everyone. I thought I could get by with a light dinner, but it's not going to happen now. Peut-etre...foie gras avec ca? C'est dommage, mais c'est la derniere... Shall I exchange that syrah for one of those '90 Bordeaux selections; make it all a little more of an event? Not too many of those babies left... WELL, I JUST HOPE YOU'RE ALL HAPPY NOW!!! :o)

You have FRESH foie gras? lightly sauteed? oh my god, where do you live?<BR><BR>Or did you mean pate de foie gras? Don't get me all excited like that!!<BR>

Seriously! I'm on my way.<BR><BR>I can bring a Monbazillac or Jurancon for the foie gras!<BR><BR>Let's have a serious cheese course after the select cut of beef and THEN we'll open that 90' Bordeaux! <BR><BR>Sigh....slightly sauteed foie gras? My risotto is sounding quite bland now.

I broke down and opened my 95' Lynch Bages. I should've waited, but after all this talk today...I just had to.<BR><BR>Everyone enjoy your wines tonight!<BR>Bon Appetit!

Rex: it is not your knowledge of wine I was recommending (certainly your thoughts about wine would be welcome), but, rather, your bent for organization that would be helpful in establishing a wine segment for those of us that are inclined without imposing on those that simply want travel information in it's purest form. Perhaps I am making too much about the need to be circumspect in establishing such a wine segment. Maybe all that is required is the word "wine" in the heading to let everyone know the content. <BR><BR>Anyway, we have gone from good wine to wonderful food already. I just read the last few posts to this thread and I have to go eat now. Pretty mundane though; barbequed ribs with a good Pinot Noir. I would be embarresed, except, I love ribs.

Hi Again -<BR><BR>Wow, I'm really glad I started this thread! I'm getting so much more information than I ever thought I would.<BR><BR>I will be printing this out and making notes.<BR><BR>We were watching Wine 101 from FoodTV on tape today. I've watched it twice already but it's amazing the little details you miss the first time around. It's great to learn about how the labels are read.<BR><BR>Thanks for everyone's input. I look forward to more reviews.<BR><BR>Lynn<BR><BR>:-)<BR>

I guess I understood that, joe - - and I take no offense if you take me for (barely past?) a wine "rookie".<BR><BR>But I think I understand what you want better now - - you just want a signal - - something that says - - this thread is not strictly related to Europe travel - - but rather about wine (or movies, or whatever)...<BR><BR>Well, taking a cue once again from the Yahoo! stock market boards - - there is a common courtesy there when the "subject at hand" starts drifting off of the "real" topic (the stock/company for which the "board" exists) - - people routinely start a new post with "OT:" - - which stands for Off Topic - - as in - - "OT: what about that dress Juliette Binoche wore to the Oscars?"<BR><BR>Of course, we can just use the words "Off Topic" - - or start our own new acronym OTTOET - - (off the topic of Europe travel) - - meaning that this thread is not really related to Europe travel - - except in the sense of "something else" Fodorites might find interesting.<BR><BR>Still, I don't think we want the board diluted by threads on so-and-so's favorite new book, song, car, clothes, delia's catalog, whatever (whoops - - we already have 4 out of 5 of those!) - - I suspect that there are good message boards about wine - - along with "good living" - - which we could visit if we wanted to - - and personally I don't think I ever would. I am interested in talking about wine to the extent that it feeds into memories or plans of travel across the pond. You?<BR>

Lynn-<BR><BR>I was thinking about the wine 101...is this the episode where they take you behind the scenes to a wine tasting? If it is, wasn't it hilarious!?<BR><BR>They were showing all these people swirling and sniffing and nostrils shoved deep in a glass and said, 'Why do they call these wine tastings, when they are clearly wine smellings!?" And not to be snobby about the entire 'process' to just enjoy it...it was really good basic informtaion, with a laugh or two to go along with it!<BR><BR>Joe- Take it from a girl from the south, there is NOTHING wrong with BBQ ribs!<BR><BR>IMHO if wine and food and travel are related, we should keep sharing info.?

Hi, Lynn.<BR><BR>We're headed off to France next month and will be visiting caves in Burgundy (including Beaujolais), the Southern Rhone (Gigondas, Cairanne, Vaqueras, ChN de P.), other parts of Provence such as Bandol, and also Languedoc.<BR><BR>I'd be happy to share our experiences then. (IF I come back!)<BR><BR>--Lynn

If you receive the Food Tv newsletter via e-mail, there are three great wine focused articles today: Shopping with confidence, wine and food no-no's, and my personal favorite, how to deal with the sommelier!<BR><BR>Lynn, will you let us know how your vineyard visits go, as well?<BR><BR>Wendy

Finally I can post! <BR> <BR>Wendy - Yes, it was that same show you describe. Some parts where pretty funny. <BR> <BR>Joe - I have to second Wendy's comment... There ain't nothin' wrong with ribs! <BR> <BR>As far as wine goes, I've noticed a few people mention Georges duBoeuf. We tried a couple of those and thought they were pretty good. I guess they are from the Beaujolais area? From a comparison we did at home (we had a Beaujolais and a Rhone) it seems that the Rhone was much earthier/mushroomy and the Beaujolais was fruity/berryish and very easy to drink. The Rhone was drier. Is that generally the case with these two? <BR> <BR>New question.... <BR> <BR>What are the main differences that makes an older wine better? If you've seen that movie Heartbreakers, Sigorney Weaver orders a '67 Merlot in one scene and it made me wonder; what makes the '67 better than the '97? <BR> <BR>Thanks for the new info. <BR> <BR>Lynn <BR> <BR>:-)

I hate to say too much about wine because each time I learn one thing it leads to two dozen more things that I'm ignorant about. The Georges duBoeuf wines are generally consistent, reliable and very reasonably priced -- particularly for French wines here -- so they make great "every day" table wines. That said, these lower-priced wines generally tend to be very straightforward; there is not a lot of complexity to deal with. I drink them all the time -- Chardonney, Syrah, Beaujolais, Merlot. (By the way, there are some higher-priced wines from Georges duBoeuf too. I'm talking about the lower-priced stuff exclusively here). Not all wines age well and something like the duBoeuf Merlot can be suffering on the rack at a time when a fine Bordeaux might be just beginning to be worth thinking about trying. I bought several cases of 1990 Bordeaux in 1998 and it was wonderful, but that particular label was past its prime by 2000. So you have to know more than "a '67 Merlot" to know if you're talking about something that's worth more -- or nothing, for that matter. If it tastes good to you, I say drink it now. There's no guarantee that it will be just as good two or three years from now. It COULD become even better, but perhaps not. Some wines age gracefully for decades. For me, I have just never been sophisticated enough to appreciate some of the very old stuff I've tried. It's not that it had gone bad, but it simply would not be worth a premium to ME. On very rare occasions, I've had some real nectar, however -- happily, always as a guest... As for the Chardonney, drink it young. Best advice: get a book or two and keep trying things as you learn more. Also keep in mind that there has always been and will always be an "Emperor's New Clothes" quality to most discussions of wine. If YOU like it, that should be what really matters.

Thanks Jim - <BR> <BR>We go to our local wine merchant once a month (as well as the supermarket here and there) and buy things to try. <BR> <BR>I think I'll go over there next week and tell him I want a "sample kit" of three or four wines that I can try that will demonstrate the effects of aging on wine. That should be a good start. <BR> <BR>Anyone else have any comments on this? <BR> <BR>Lynn <BR> <BR>:-)

I don't know how you can conduct an "experiment" on aging with 3 or 4 bottles of wine unless you have the most extraordinary "taste memory" in the world. And any aging "experiment' should really be based on having "proper" wine storage - - under 55-60 degreees Fahrenheit, side-lying and proper humidity. <BR> <BR>But your wine merchant should be able to suggest some wines for which he has different vintage years already - - thus they have already been aged different lengths of time. Some wines vary a fair amount from one year to the next, but not all do, and he can probably suggest some wines that were considered "nearly" the same in quality and character over the past decade - - and "throw out" the exceptional (very good or realtively weaker) years. Buy some of the same wine from pre-1995 and post-1995, and see what you think for yourself. It may or may not help to read what wine "experts" thought about the two vintages - - though this can lead to your tasting what somebody else tells you is "there". <BR> <BR>Last of all, the taste of any two wines will almost always be affected by how long it has been open, the temperature of the room, whether you are too warm or too cool yourself, the foods you are eating at the same time, and the "social" atmosphere. <BR>

GREAT question! First of all, I'm aplogizing in advance for not giving you a technical answer...Unfortunately there is no precise answer on how to know when to drink the wines you buy. I am still learning and like Jim said,"I learn one thing it leads to two dozen more things that I'm ignorant about"...it is so true! I had lunch with a noted wine sommelier on Friday, and asked about some of the wines I bought TEN years ago, thinking he'd say, "Wow! Good buying! Those will age beautifully." Wishful thinking! My Haut-Marbuzet, he said, I should have had ALREADY, it is PAST its prime, my Haut Lafitte is ready to drink now, and my Lynch Bages (that I stupidly opened the other night) needed ten more years!Argh!! So your question prompted me to call him to find out, that wines are all created differently. Land, climate, soil, rainfall in a particular year, blended/not blended, and storage temperatures/methods, all play a part in how a wine will turn out...making some years better than others. <BR>Travel also affects wine greatly, and therefore, wine is extremely fragile and with all these variables, wines can be affected in many ways. Red Burgundies and Pinot do NOT like travel and need time to 'rest' before opening! Considering how many wines there are in the world, it isn't surprising that the entire process of wine is a complicated one. The majority are meant to be enjoyed in the first one to five years of their lives. However, some need chilling and breathing to bring out their bottled potential, and also allows you to drink them at their optimum. Old wines are not always good wines. The rare bottles being auctioned off, or sold (at this restaurant on Friday? $1,250 for Petruse)are fascinating, but valuable old bottles of wine are even rarer than valuable antiques, because unlike antiques, wine is perishable. It all has to do with the makers decisions of the balance of tannins. Certain young wines are made to be that way, drinkable young...like Beaujolais Nouveau, it REALLY should be opened immediately after the November release and is 'bad' by January-February. Bad meaning, it is past it's potential to be it's best. Certain older wines need longer-The best years that Bordeaux has seen will need 20-30 years to be at it's peak, or 'optimum'! 82,86,89,90,95, and 96. If I'd known that before I opened my 1995 Lynch Bages, I'd have been better off. So knowledge helps...A real myth is that young wines taste bad. Older wines like the 1967 you mentioned are made to age longer and tannins soften as they age...sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. When it does, the price goes through the roof, because it is so rare! I met a man who was so thrilled with a LaTour tasting last year, that he bought many cases only to realize he'd be long gone before the wine was ready to drink at its optimum! <BR> <BR>So, given that it is a complicated, perishable, expensive business this is where the advice is to drink what you like! If you put a 1999 on the counter, it too could be the worst time to drink it and the 1998 bettter, all you need to do is ask and pray you are being told the truth. Buy what you like and if you can't afford such 67' wines, then your range of choice is even larger! I'm certain, if I ever in my lifetime, had the good fortune to taste the 67' Merlot, it WOULD be fabulous! But, fabulous for the storage, blending, climate and terroir for 1967! There are just as many wonderful wines perfect to drink for their year too! One of the biggest mistakes is that most of us drink red too warm and white too cold! So, drink enough varieties of wines to know what you like and don't...and enjoy without worry you are missing something in an older wine! <BR> <BR> <BR>

Lynn, GREAT question! First of all, I'm aplogizing in advance for not giving you a technical answer...Unfortunately there is no precise answer on how to know when to drink the wines you buy. I am still learning and like Jim said,"I learn one thing it leads to two dozen more things that I'm ignorant about"...it is so true! I had lunch with a noted wine sommelier on Friday, and asked about some of the wines I bought TEN years ago, thinking he'd say, "Wow! Good buying! Those will age beautifully." Wishful thinking! My Haut-Marbuzet, he said, is PAST its prime, my Haut Lafitte is ready to drink now, and my Lynch Bages (that I stupidly opened the other night) needed ten more years!Argh!! So your question prompted me to call him to find out, that wines are all created differently. Land, climate, soil, rainfall in a particular year, blended/not blended, and storage temperatures/methods, all play a part in how a wine will turn out...making some years better than others. <BR>Travel also affects wine greatly, and therefore, wine is extremely fragile and with all these variables, wines can be affected in many ways. Red Burgundies and Pinot do NOT like travel and need time to 'rest' before opening! Considering how many wines there are in the world, it isn't surprising that the entire process of wine is a complicated one. The majority are meant to be enjoyed in the first one to five years of their lives. However, some need chilling and breathing to bring out their potential, and allows you to drink them at their optimum. Old wines are not always good wines. The rare bottles being auctioned off, or sold (at this restaurant on Friday? $1,250 for Petruse)are fascinating, but valuable old bottles of wine are even rarer than valuable antiques, because unlike antiques, wine is perishable. It all has to do with the decisions of the balance of tannins. Certain young wines are made to be that way, drinkable young...like Beaujolais Nouveau, it REALLY should be opened immediately after the November release and is 'bad' by January-February. Bad meaning, it is past it's potential to be it's best. Certain older wines need longer-The best years of Bordeaux will need 20-30 years to be at it's peak, 82, 86, 89, 90, 95, and 96. If I'd known that before I opened my 1995 Lynch Bages, I'd have been better off. So knowledge helps...A myth is that young wines taste bad. Older wines like the 67 you mentioned are made to age and tannins soften as they age...sometimes it works and the price goes through the roof, because it is so rare! So, given that it is a complicated, perishable, expensive business this is where the advice is to drink what you like! If you put a 1999 on the counter, it too could be the worst time to drink it and the 1998 bettter, all you need to do is ask and pray you are being told the truth. Buy what you like and if you can't afford such 67' wines, then your range of choice is even larger! I'm certain, if I ever in my lifetime, had the good fortune to taste the 67' Merlot, it WOULD be fabulous! But, fabulous for the storage, blending, climate and terroir for 1967! There are just as many wonderful wines perfect to drink for their year too! One of the biggest mistakes is that most of us drink red too warm and white too cold! So, drink enough varieties of wines to know what you like and don't...and enjoy without worry you are missing something in an older wine! <BR> <BR> <BR>

Lynn, GREAT question! I'm aplogizing in advance for not giving you a technical answer as there is no precise answer on how to know when to drink the wines you buy. I am still learning and like Jim said,"I learn one thing it leads to two dozen more things that I'm ignorant about"...it is so true! I had lunch with a noted wine sommelier on Friday, and asked about some of the wines I bought TEN years ago, thinking he'd say, "Wow!Those will age beautifully." Wishful thinking! My Haut-Marbuzet, he said, is PAST its prime, my Haut Lafitte is ready to drink now, and my Lynch Bages (that I stupidly opened the other night) needed ten more years!Argh!! Wines are all created differently, land, climate, soil in a particular year, blended/not blended, and storage temperatures/methods, all play a part in how a wine will turn out...making some years better than others. Travel also affects wine, therefore, wine is extremely fragile with all these variables.Red Burgundies and Pinot do NOT like travel and need time to 'rest' before opening! Considering how many wines there are in the world, it isn't surprising that the process of wine is a complicated one. The majority are meant to be enjoyed in the first 1-5 years of their lives. However, some need chilling and breathing to taste their potential and allows you to drink them at their optimum. Old wines are not always good wines. The bottles being auctioned off, or sold ($1,250 for Petruse)are fascinating, but valuable old bottles of wine are even rarer than valuable antiques, because wine is perishable. It all has to do with the decisions of the balance of tannins. Certain young wines are made to be drinkable young, (Beaujolais Nouveau)and REALLY should be opened immediately after the November release and is 'bad' by January-February.(past it's potential to be it's best)Certain older wines need longer-The best years of Bordeaux will need 20-30 years to be at its peak, 82, 86, 89, 90, 95, and 96. If I'd known that before I opened my 1995 Lynch Bages, I'd have been better off. A myth is that young wines taste bad. Older wines like the 67, are made to age and tannins soften as they age.Sometimes it works and the price goes through the roof, because it is so rare! So, given that it is a complicated, perishable, expensive business,buy what you like and if you can't afford such 67' wines, then your range of choice is even larger! I'm certain, if I ever in my lifetime, had the good fortune to taste the 67' Merlot, it WOULD be fabulous for the storage, blending, climate and terroir for 1967! There are just as many wonderful wines perfect to drink for their year too! One of the biggest mistakes is that most of us drink red too warm and white too cold! So, drink enough varieties of wines to know what you like and don't...and enjoy without worry you are missing something in an older wine! <BR> <BR> <BR>

I'M SORRY! This old/new forum kept telling me it didn't go and then it went three times? Really, it wasn't that important!

Holy SCROLL BAR, BATMAN! Wendy's post was so nice, she entered it thrice... But good stuff anyway. One thing I really enjoyed in France was visiting tasting rooms in a couple of out-of-the-way chateaux. These were private and arranged by a friend over there who discusses wine with near-religious passion and perhaps even a bit of superstition thrown in at times. He keeps around 800 bottles in his cave; a collection he characterizes as tiny. There is hardly a more pleasant way to while away an afternoon than wine tasting and takes all of the guesswork out of selecting labels that you will enjoy. You'll learn about the various methods employed in producing and aging wine and you will gain a whole new appreciation for the art and science of it all. Sadly, my favorites turned out to be some that have no negotiantes in North America. I suppose I will just have to go back.

Jim, <BR> <BR>Who were those favorites, if you don't mind sharing? <BR> <BR>Merci.

What a fabulous thread! I did a search for "Berry" because I'm thinking that's where we'll spend most of our time when we go to France in late May. This thread came up, I guess because of "berry" flavors in wine, and I've been glomming down all your wonderful posts for the past half hour with my tongue hanging out. I may have to rethink our itinerary for next month! Thanks, guys, for a great thread! <BR>

For all you Bordeaux fans, the word from France is that the 2000 vintage is shaping up to be the best in very many years. Prices are of course headed for the hills. Buy now!

Hmmm...I guess when I visit the vineyards in Chianti, we'll notice a difference between that wine and my husband's home made stuff, huh!!!!