Thanks! That was amusing. I heard "Bon Appetit" plenty in Paris, but I guess I'm just not high society enough. :)

I am surprised at the Gendarme threat to shoot the dog, considering how popular dogs are in Paris.

Maybe the dog was trying to use the policeman (gendarmes are rare in Paris, they work in rural areas) as a "lamppost"and frankly, even so, it seems very strange !

And what a bunch of strange "french" customs (never seen in France, or maybe among US or UK expats ?)
<<< "free entry" sign on them. They are doing you a favour by letting you go inside to buy something.<< is not true : you may enter even if you have NO intention to buty something (but just to have a look)

And please, don't speak about Polly Platt who sounds to know about french manners as much as much as i know about brain surgery (zilch).

Of course you can ask friends for the toilets, they prefer this than having you twitching on your seat and threatening to spoil the seat).

And you can bring wine, just don't expect it to be served imediately (a good wine has to rest after travelling, or it may not be the ideal wine to compliment the meal served)

And i have never seen orange juice served to make people leave (i have never seen orange juice served after a meal, only cafe or tea)

Aad you may say "bon appetit", even if - in a normal situation, only the person presenting the meal says it (or the serving person)

And i have never seen sorbet eaten with a fork (never seen a fork close from a sorbet - always a spoon),

And why are toasts systematically placed with the foie gras ? thats's for using them (but no spreading, just place the foie gras on the toast

And ....

Ah, the French, they are a funny race.

We recall one day on an island in the Galapagos archipelago, where we came ashore via rubber raft. There, on the narrow, sandy beach, was a gaggle of French tourists. The women were wearing heels.

There were articles in France when that book came out, and it had everybody snickering here, too.
The French have plenty of faults but being chained to behavioral rules is not one of them. They epitomize the concept of "live and let live". Except in so-called 'high society,' nobody will bat an eye at just about any faux pas that a stranger might do. But if it is a major mistake, somebody will come forward and explain the correct way to do something.

i agree that many of these points are exaggerated. many of these books and stories about cultural differences are. obviously, there are genuine differences but the more silly and extreme you make them sound, the funnier your book will be.

anyway, i'm glad that we in the UK are still free to poke a bit of fun at the french. from my experience, this is no longer acceptable in the US as you will automatically be labeled as being on the wrong side of the silly culture war if do anything but heap praise on the french. sad.

I tried to find the humor in this article and failed miserably. Urban legends are rarely funny and thrive on misunderstanding, misinformation, poor knowledge and the desire to appear "in the know" at the expense of the target, in this case the French.

While people would definitely not wish
their co-eaters (!)"bon appétit" in very posh circles, the expression is widely used in France.

I would not dream of helping myself to anything when I am invited at someone's place and this include searching through the kitchen cupboard if I feel I need an extra lump of sugar in my coffee. But then, it's not French manners, it's good manners and I think they apply everywhere.

I have never been offered orange juice at the end of a meal but rather
coffee, herbal tea or (even better) a good cognac or armagnac and I have
never considered it as a signal to leave but rather a way to spend what remained of the evening in good company.
Besides who would need a signal to know when it's time to leave?

Re the tradition of not cutting your salad with a knife : it goes back to the time when knife blades were not made of stainless steel and vinegar would stain them. It's acceptable now.

Re French women wearing heels in the Galapagos : it doesn't beat some Americans showing up in high-end
restaurants wearing bermudas, sneakers and a baseball cap.

>>>>>
you say...

Urban legends are rarely funny and thrive on misunderstanding, misinformation, poor knowledge and the desire to appear "in the know" at the expense of the target

you then say...

Re French women wearing heels in the Galapagos : it doesn't beat some Americans showing up in high-end
restaurants wearing bermudas, sneakers and a baseball cap.
>>>>

i agree with your first statement, but it's funny that you then go on to do the very thing that you were speaking out against at the beginning of your post. but if it's against americans, i guess it is considered 'enlightened' (no matter how tired and boring the cliches might be - eg 'sneakers and baseball caps').

Good point, walkinaround. ;)

Walkinaround

The comparison was made on purpose to demonstrate the enduring life of some clichés !

It is more difficult to disintegrate a prejudice than an atom – Albert Einstein

According to my late grandmother-in-law, the correct usage of "Bon Appetit" is more subtle than the article states.

It's true that when sitting down to a formal meal at someone's house, it's vulgar to begin the meal with a hearty "Bon Appetit". The way it was explained to me is that by saying this, you are implying that we'll need a good appetite to be able to get this awful stuff down our throats !

In contrast, it is perfectly acceptable and quite expected for a waiter to say "Bon Appetit" while serving you your meal - or if you pass someone having a picnic - you can feel free to "BA" to your heart's content.

My grand-mother-in-law was generally a wealth of knowledge re: etiquette. Great stuff, all the rules and regulations. I especially loved the list of dos-and-donts surrounding the cheese course. Taken out of context, some of these things can seem arbitrary and arcane - but they do all have at least an historical sense and it is kind of sad to think we are slowly but surely losing the subtleties.

-Kevin

You hit the proverbial 'Nail-on-the-head' Kismetchimera! Word for word.

Interesting article, jsmith. Though I had to wonder why the journalist didn't spend more time just observing others (supposedly a requirement of her profession) and trying to follow their lead instead of attempting to take it especially when he or she was in a strange situation.

I have in my hand &quot;The Rituals of Dinner: the Origins, Evolution, Eccentricities and Meaning of Table Manners&quot; by one Margaret Visser. She makes quite a few cross-cultural comparisons, and speculates on why we still need, or at least desire, rules on etiquette. Among her references: Rochefoucauld-Liancourt, F. de la. <i> Melanges sur l'Angleterre </i> (1784) translated by S.C. Roberts as <i> A Frenchman in England 1784 </i> which suggests commentary between cultures on etiquette is by no means a recent thing. (By the way, despite Visser quoting everything and everyone else, including Erasmus, I could find nothing about French noblemen needing to show off status rings at the table by keeping elbows on same...)

One of the things she suggests is that the rule against elbows on the table stems from &quot;the long insistence in our culture on showing bodily control and not trespassing on the space of others...&quot; The remark about trespassing on personal space is a telling one. Whatever one might think about elbows on the table, one has only to read one of those invariably acrimonious airplane threads on &quot;to recline or not to recline&quot; to realize that issues and debates about personal space (is the space the recliner's or the reclinee's?) are taken very seriously.

It is humourous (sic) how so many can treat a humorous article so seriously.

Now for a real test. Yesterday we were invited to a Christmas turkey dinner with some acquaintances. We took two bottles of wine, a white and a red. The host opened both bottles and asked which we would like. All five adults chose white. Before the meal was over the white was finished. The red - opened - sat on the sideboard and it was never offered. What would you have done as a guest and supplier of the wine?

Most of that is just pure balderdash!

jsmith, were your hosts French? I can't imagine any French person forgetting that there is an open bottle of wine in waiting nearby. I also can't imagine why the bottle was opened in the first place if everybody wanted white wine (very strange in itself, except among anachronistic purists who feel that white wine with fowl is obligatory -- that rule went out the window at least 30 years ago with real people).

...or perhaps they were applying the traditional French saying :

&quot;Blanc sur rouge, rien ne bouge.
Rouge sur blanc, tout fout le camp.&quot;

(White on top of red, nothing to dread.
Red on top of white, toilet's delight.)

Funny and witty comment Kerouac! Laughing here.

Elbows on the table while eating? Hands on your lap? Nobody will make comments, but you'll be classified by those who know the etiquette.
Unless you're American of course.

No, kerouac, they weren't French, just plain old non-sophisticated, easy to make fun of Americans.

The white wine was chosen by all because it seemed appropriate with the appetizer of herbed goat-cheese toasts which I'd also brought. BTW, the recipe is on epicurious.com.

Doesn't anybody want to answer the question?

In front of Americans (and for that matter, in front of any of my French or other nationality friends), I would have said, &quot;Hey, let's have some of that red wine!&quot;