45 Minutes To See Prado
 

This kind of thing comes up so often here, and I'm always criticized for my breakneck itineraries.

So I'm especially delighted to see this article in last Sunday's NYT Travel section:

http://travel.nytimes.com/2010/02/14...14culture.html

I am surprised he chose the Mantegna as the Renaissance painting. As much as I like Mantegna, that painting seems to have really faded. I probably would have picked the Raphael portrait.

I can't really remember Goya's portraits of King Carlos IV all that well. Surprised that he didn't pick the portrait of the family instead.

Article excerpt:

Well, how about 45 minutes? Can you really do a major museum justice in that amount of time? Surprisingly, one museum official seems to think so: Gabriele Finaldi, the Prado’s deputy director for conservation and research, and the one usually tapped to show visiting heads of state and other dignitaries the museum’s remarkable collection of paintings. “Forty-five minutes is the perfect amount of time to get to know the Prado,” said Mr. Finaldi.

It's an interesting article. Even in small museums I spend at least an hour so I doubt I could see a major museum in 45 minutes; I'd feel cheated.

Just topping. I'm surprised that the "slow" travellers are not harping on this. :)

It's perhaps not worth the argument: either you buy it or you don't. And it takes all kinds, yes?

I definitely agree with that, but will have to try to remember to post this link in the future when I read posts that criticize others for wanting to rush through museums.

At least we have it on good authority (Prado expert) that yes, you can see Prado in 45 minutes. :)

I'm too lazy to search for the old thread-- how many minutes did you spend in the Prado that time?

I checked my notes. I think it was 25 minutes for that show on Patinir. I skipped one final gallery of paintings on followers of Patinir to rush to the airport.

These are the notes I took on that show, just in case anyone is *really* *that* curious.

Well Fifi, you and I spent about 25 minutes (or less?) at the Gugg for the Kandinsky show, right? :)

==

I counted the number of paintings on view in the galleries devoted to Patinir, and I think that there were 22 total. But one was attributed to Patinir and Massys jointly. Massys painted the five figures in this painting (I think it was called Temptation of St. Anthony).

Only 11 or 12 were attributed to Patinir solely. The rest but one were attributed to Patinir and his workshop (or studio?). One was attributed as "Circle of Patinir." It was unclear to me how paintings were attributed to Patinir solely. [I have no idea what I am writing here!] Even for these cases, the labels would note that parts of the paintings were not by Patinir (for example, a certain figure, etc.). I remember at least two paintings from private collections, one of which was attributed to Patinir solely. There were a few paintings all based on a landscape with St. Jerome in Prado.

The most interesting part of my notes:

"I returned to the airport at 9:52 am. I could have squeezed another 10 minutes out for the show."

Laugh.

You seem sad there is no argument... Perhaps it is no fun to be provocative if no-one bites.

Yeah, it's a bit like that saying about a tree that falls in the forest and no one hears.

Did you bite me in a previous life perhaps? Your join date is January 2010 and you're mildly provocative already. :)

But fear not -- there's always a perennial, palpable tension between the "slow" and "fast" travellers. :)

As the mother of a 10 year old boy, I really appreciate the link. The National Gallery in Wash DC has a similar 1-hour list, and after a trip to the Uffizi last summer, I wished all museums did the same. We will be visiting Madrid this summer, and will take the article along. Thank you!

Hi, I've mentioned this in the past, but check out the series of articles Nick Trend has published for the Telegraph as well. There are all titled something like "How to visit xxx museum." He has written about Prado, the Louvre, the Met Museum, the British Museum, the Kunsthistorisches Museum, the National Gallery London, the Vatican Museum, and probably others.

Many museum websites also have their own lists. As you mentioned, the National Gallery DC has one hour lists for the East and West wings. The Prado also has a list of masterpieces on its website.

The British Museum has, I think, one-hour, two-hour and three-hour lists. The Vatican Museums publishes on its website lists of 10, 20 and 30 masterpieces (or something like that).

While we are on the Prado, Google Earth has closeups of Prado masterpieces -- speaking of which I should try this out now that I have a new laptop. Your boy may find it "cool" to zero in on art on a computer -- maybe as fun as playing a computer game! :)

Happy museums hopping, fast or slow!

Or they read the Reader's Digest Large Print Edition with the pictures.

Oh, now you see you bit, Aduchamp! Sigh!

@ questionqueen,

My boy was 10 the summer we went to Madrid, and he had a great time at the Prado. We took longer than an hour, but I like to make museums fun, and try to design something that will get the child interested. With the Prado, I knew my son loved dogs, so his mission was to spot the dogs in the paintings. "Found one!" was the cry-out, as he circled the paintings, counting up the number of dog he could find. Interestingly, at the end, in the museum shop, we found the perfect t-shirt for him -- it had a host of cartooned dogs and written on it: Los perros del Prado. Kismet!

Also, keep your eyes open for Diego Valezquez de Silva's San Antonio Abad y San Pablo (St. Anthony & St. Paul) -- my son looked at that painting and the bird flying above with something in its mouth and said the title of the painting was "Praying for a MacDonald's"! The bird really did look like it had a Big Mac in its beak!

If I only could spend 45 minutes there (what a shame that would be) I'd spend 20 of them with the Velasquez paintings, then go see Bosch (taking 10 minutes to sort that one out) and spend the rest of the time gazing lovingly at the Rafael's nearby.

Why bother?

I don't know why people assume that a short time has to be rushed. I often go to the "Free Friday Nights" an hour before closing and just concentrate on one room or one artist. When you go to a restaurant, you don't eat everything on the menu.

One of my more amusing travel moments was in a museum in Budapest. A group led by an English speaking guide without breaking stride or stopping and pointing with his umbrella at a painting said, "That is one I wanted to show you."

Well, he kept his word.

@ Surfergirl - thanks for the suggestions. My son is also a fan of dogs, so I might steal your game! I'd love to know of any other Madrid sights he enjoyed - we're spending 2 weeks in Spain in June, focusing on Madrid and Andalucia. Thanks again!

Glad to see that there are 8 new responses not written by me. :)

Speaking of dogs, two dogs come to mind at the Prado. One is the one in Las Meninas, while the other one is the Goya on the 2nd Floor.

It's one painting that Miro reportedly wanted to see before he died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dog_%28Goya%29

"I don't know why people assume that a short time has to be rushed."

Well some people on Fodor's like to assume a lot of things. :)

What to see in 1 hour according to the Museo del Prado website:
http://www.museodelprado.es/en/the-c...in-the-museum/

Despite a lot of attempts, it is useless for people here, or anywhere else for that matter, to try to REGIMENT the way OTHER people travel, but the fight continues and sometimes it is a lot of fun to blatantly IGNORE all the "advice" you get and do it your own way.

The last time I was in Amsterdam I went to the Rijksmuseum, as I usually do, went upstairs and stared at my favorite piece for about 30 minutes, and then left.

I did not feel cheated and for me it was time well-spent.

Thanks for the interesting and completely understandable link.

Well, the galleries could at least put the best stuff by the front door...

I'm all for getting people out of museums in less than an hour, especially people with children who want them to shout every time they spot a dog in a painting.

tDudette, EXACTLY! Or even out the door. Like the Mona Lisa. Then the tourists could just Segway by it.

Dukey,

The Rijksmuseum has been closed for years. When were you there?

Growing up I was fortunate enough to live right near the Met in Manhattan, and went for frequent brief visits. Even now I like smaller "bites" of large museums because I get overwhelmed and can't really see much after the first hour or even less. So I understand not staying too long, but the tradeoff is only seeing the "biggies" and not getting a sense of the depth of some of the world's great collections. Travel always involves tradeoffs, especially for those of us who can't/don't travel often, so we make our choices. The key is developing our own idea of what really works for each of us.

One of my more amusing travel moments was in a museum in Budapest. A group led by an English speaking guide without breaking stride or stopping and pointing with his umbrella at a painting said, "That is one I wanted to show you.">>

perhaps it's the one i remember from a museum in Budapest. a woman [not in the first flush of youth] is looking calmly out from the canvas, whilst her male companion embraces her and is winking at the audience. it is then you realise that he has the hand you can't see inside her dress!

when our kids were not much younger and we were in museums with them, they became fixated on the flying heads featured in so many paintings, and the ugliness of the babies depicted, so much so, that we started an ugly baby competition. the winner was a christ-child in Siena, I think. we never did work out why the some of the world's greatest artists were incapable of painting a realistic baby in proportion to itself and its mother.

i like the idea of spotting dogs too. i may borrow it if i ever have grandchidlren!

An ugly baby contest, why didn't I think of that? It would make all those galleries filled with religious paintings much more fun. I'll have to remember that if the occasion ever arises.

primeranoche, that's a good mind picture-the segways passing the best stuff.

Annhig

I must return to Budapest since I do not recall such a painting. But you may have inadvertedly come up with an idea for adults.

Instead of challenging children to find dogs and such in paintings, encourage adults to find nudes and representations of sexual moments. This may be the answer to counter the 45 minute museum trot.

I have also decided to turn off my radio any time they do not play one of my favorite tunes. Obviously there is little value in what I do not know.

@ primeranoche -- it's a Museum, not a library or movie theatre -- things on view in museums should invoke passion, not simply non-verbal spiritual enlightenment. You're not sitting there trying to quietly figure out the meaning behind some existentialistic thought, or trying to stifle the interest or excitement of a young (or old) mind. Interaction is key!

@ questionqueen -- my son also loved (as we did!) the Parque del Retiro -- they have wonderful breezy little boat tours (or you can rent a boat!) on the little lake (great when it's hot), the Alfonso XII monument is fun to climb around, there's those big sucking fish (like koi, but I don't think that's what it is) to feed in the lake (they sell fish food!), there's a children's playground, sidewalk chalk painters, street performers and the like. And it's super close to the Prado.

He also loved the Puerto del Sol and the symbol of Madrid there -- the big statue of the bear and the berry tree (El Oso y El Madroño).

Seems to me there are all kinds of museum visitors. Those who enjoy long days viewing great art and those who what to see a few great works. There are also those who visit Paris or Florence often and don't need or want to see all of the great art each time. One size definitely does not fit all in this case.
If you love art and don't expect to return to a city soon, spen more time. After nearly a dozen visits to Paris, I usually pick a few favorites to see while I am there. Or visit a museum I've not seen before. I'm not sure it is necessary to "do a major museum justice" as long as you see what you want to see.

Agree with mamcalice. We all have different tastes and different ideas of what we want to see or don't care about seeing. Also, if there's a particular exhibit at a museum -- the reason for going may be to just focus on the works in the exhibit, lingering longer on the works that interest me.

Surfergirl,

I can't blame you for being so poorly educated given what museums have marketed themselves as to people like you in order to survive, but great artworks are about ideas -- subtle ideas -- that are much more difficult to grasp when people encourage their children to shout around them. They DO in fact represent existential ideas -- but I suspect you are already too old to be re-educated.

Just try to consider this despite your depressing ignorance: Other people who are genuinely passionate about art -- because they understand it from the inside -- often must save up their money and sacrifice tremendously to see the artworks in European museums you think your kid should be noisily interacting with. As you already know, there is a big park outside with sucking fish. Next time, have a little maturity and take your kid there to play, not inside a museum. And lest you fear for his precious development, I'll point out that (a) he won't grow up to rude in museums and (b) I have yet to meet a single serious artist or art lover whose parents didn''t teach him or her how to appreciate quiet looking in a museum and -- in fact -- nearly every artist I know was never taken to a museum by parents at all as a child.

Museums are not Burger King. "I'll just have it my way." Neither is art. It's stunning to me that so many people who claim to have spent so much time in museums seem not to have noticed art is placing demands on them. I blame it on teachers, frankly, who would probably get fired if they actually taught children the ideas present in art. But there's apparently little risk of that ever happening, so people can just go on believing art is another entertainment to fill up the boredom of their lives, like travel itself. And dog-spotting.

Primeranoche, you say above that the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam has been closed for years. I just checked their web page and they appear to be open. Where did you get your information?

http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/

The Rijksmuseum has been under renovation for several years now. On the link you provided, the visitor information page says:

"During the large - scale rebuilding of the Rijksmuseum Amsterdam till 2012/13, the finest works from the 17th century in the Rijksmuseum will continue to be on view under the title 'The Masterpieces'."

Other works are at Schiphol and other locations. None of them, as far as I know, have an "upstairs" - which is where Dukey tells us he was "last" time he went to the Rijksmuseum for 30 minutes with a favorite painting (little did he know he should have been talking to it or kissing it or sucking it or "interacting" in some fashion rather than just quietly looking at it as if it were a movie or book. Sheesh! What a dumbell. Maybe he should have just surfed past it. Or skated, I guess, this being Amsterdam.)

and more from the museum's website:

Open
Until the main building reopens, the Rijksmuseum will display its masterpieces from the Golden Age in the Philips Wing on the Museumplein square, in an exhibition entitled 'The Masterpieces'. The museum’s collection can be admired at the Rijksmuseum division based at Amsterdam-Schiphol airport, in museums in the Netherlands and abroad and on the Internet until 2013.