4 to 5 weeks in Europe not rushed
 

We are a mid to late 20 cpl with a 2 year old son. Our plan is land in Amsterdam from sydney and fly out from a different city back to Sydney. No set time on length of holiday yet, but looking at around 4 to 4.5 weeks. Our work is very flexible. We are not one bit religious or into art. There's a few churches we wouldn't mind seeing as listed but not interested in dong tours of them or into art museums. We would like to go to history museums to get to know a bit more about each city. The holiday we want is to just wander around seeing the landmarks while doing a few tours of our choice. We are looking to go in September. Sorry for the layout, it's a bit rushed trying to get it sorted and my head is in circles haha.

AMSTERDAM 4 nights.
*Canal cruise
*Anne frank house
*Amsterdam museum
*vondelpark
*Half day tour to zaanse schans windmills, market and volendam

DAY 5 Fly to Liverpool
LIVERPOOL 3nights
*Liverpool match at Anfield
*beetles museum.
*Slavery museum
*Albert Dock

train to London
LONDON 7 nights
* Houses of Parliament and Big Ben
*westminster abbey
*the guards museum
*Trafalgar Square
*Buckingham palace ( tour)
*Hyde park
*st Paul's cathedral
*Tower of London
*Tower bridge

Train to Paris
PARIS 4
*Eiffel Tower/ champ de Mars
*river cruise
*Arc de triomphe
*Montparnasse tower
*Notre dame
*palace of Versailles

Is this enough days to see mentioned places at a slow pace? We would like a rest day at each city to do nothing but wander around. After Paris we would like to spend 10-12 nights at beach location or two just relax and chill out before heading home. First choice was the Greek Islands but we were told it gets a lot of party goers at that time of year, so are thinking Barcelona or maybe just go to south France. We are unsure. Open upto any ideas, we are still trying to get our head around Europe with so little notice that we are going.

Sounds good to me but wouldn't it make more sense to fly to London and then do Liverpool-Amsterdam-Paris? Or reverse? Fewer flights is always a good move in my book. If you can take the Eurostar to Paris so much the better (London-Liverpool-London-Paris-Amsterdam). Personally I would split the time between London and Paris a bit more evenly but that's probably because I prefer Paris as a place to visit.

Greece and it's islands are hugely varied: some are busy and others much less so. Also consider the mainland as, in my view, it is even more beautiful than the islands. Grab a guidebook and choose a couple of places that sound appealing and then ask here whether they are likely to be busy or not. I suspect there are more flights from London to Greece than from most other cities in Europe. Check amadeus.net or skyscanner.

Wish it were me!

personally I like the order you've chosen as you have the shorter Liverpool stay between longer stays in Amsterdam and London.

so far you've got 2 ½ weeks' worth of holiday with a possible 1 ½ - 2 weeks to go. Were it me, I'd add a couple of days to Paris [4 nights = 3 + days which with your laudable idea of spending a day in each place to relax gives you only 2+ days there, which I agree with dreamon is not enough].

After that i would get the TGV from Paris to the SoF [Provence or Cote d'Azur] - late September would be a great time to tour or possibly hire a gite for a week or so.

Then return to Paris for your flight home or if possible, fly home from Nice or Marseilles. [if your best return airport is Paris, consider getting the Eurostar/ TGV straight through from London using the Eurostar facility to book tickets all the way through and putting your stay in Paris at the end of the trip, so you'll be in the right place for flying home].

Sounds wonderful! And with a two year old, wow, that's a big busy trip, have you thought also about things like Disneyland in Paris perhaps etc for your son?

The rest looks quite good, but I'd do a week in Paris. Four days would be a real whirlwind and Paris definitely lends itself to walking around, relaxing in outdoor cafes, parks etc.

When is this trip? That makes a very big difference re both Buckingham Palace (only open to the public a little over 2 month a year) and your beach time.

And with a two year old, wow, that's a big busy trip, have you thought also about things like Disneyland in Paris perhaps etc for your son?>>

Sorry, juleslove, but why would a 2 year old be interested in Disney? perhaps for older children, if you really must, but I can't see it holding any attractions for an Australian toddler. S/he'd be more interested in the zoo [a great one in Amsterdam and another in the Jardins des Plantes in Paris] and running around in the Luxembourg Gardens.

I'm not sure what dreamon is on about. Your itinerary seems clear: Amsterdam, Liverpool, London, Paris, beach. No hopping about or crossing the lines.

The Paris bit is short. The London bit is fine. If you're going at the beginning of September, there may be a good number of partiers at the Greek Islands but it depends upon which one(s). And it's not like Barcelona is known for being sedate.

Also: you're British ("The Queen's on your money, you're British," - Gregory House), how could you honk on spelling the BeAtles?????

Get your train tickets ASAP to get deep discounts on Liverpool to London and London to Paris - www.eurostar.com for the latter and www.nationalrail.co.uk for the former - much cheaper than walk up tickets but non-changeable non-refundable - for lots on trains check www.seat61.com - good advice on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. Can book up to 90 days or more in advance.

Oh -- now I see you are traveling in September. That is a good time for everything on your list

I agree with others about adding time to Paris - so much to see/do/experience!

Are you not interested in art? You will be in cities with some of the world's best art museums, but I notice not a one on your lists.

Also: you're British ("The Queen's on your money, you're British," - Gregory House), how could you honk on spelling the BeAtles?????>>

I don't think that the OP is British - they are coming from Australia.

>>Are you not interested in art? You will be in cities with some of the world's best art museums, but I notice not a one on your lists.<<

Nope . . . >>We are not one bit religious or into art<<

But even w/o the galleries, I'd add time to Paris

(I'd even add time to London but a week is a good taste)

One thing - you have only listed major cities -- when you are in Liverpool you will be very close to the Lake District and relatively close to North Yorkshire. Have you considered adding a few days in gorgeous countryside?

In the south of France look at Antibes or Cap Ferrat as a base.

4 days in Paris is about tops for the average first-time traveler IME - Fodorgarchs just cannot put themselves sometimes in the shoes of a first-time traveler who may only want to see the major sights and move on.

To me a week in London for the average traveler would be a few days too long too. You certainly do not need a week there to see the sights you outlined in your OP - if you do spend a week I'd day trip to outside London like to York or Bath or closer in Windsor Castle and Windsor/Eton or Hampton Court Palace, home of Henry VIII.

This is all a subjective thing - Janis would add more to a week there - I would take three days away - for the average traveler that is - who is right and who is wrong - neither but we just give opinions based on our experience.

See if you can fly into Manchester so you start your trip in Liverpool, you can then then take the train to London, then Paris, then Amsterdam before flying home.

With a 2 yr old the less time you spend at airports the better

<<Also: you're British ("The Queen's on your money, you're British," - Gregory House), how could you honk on spelling the BeAtles?????>>

I don't think that the OP is British - they are coming from Australia.>>

Someone's missing the joke.

September in southern France or Italy would be a good time for beaches- crowds have thinned out but weather still warm. Greek islands are so so many -not all are party havens.

You want 'not rushed' . . . so obviously Pal's advice isn't your travel style (poor man drinks paint and has a short attention span but we humour him)

what joke?

I have 3 children and it not occur to me to drag a 2 yr old all over Europe. I feel you will miss important sights and the child will be wishing he was at a playground.

Is this enough days to see mentioned places at a slow pace?>

janis dear - I was responding to the question and to answer that would be you do not even need that many days to just the things listed. Yeh you could spend the whole 4-5 weeks in London and not be bored....because then you'd be bored with life I guess.

With 7 days in London I'd certainly advise doing a day trip or two and see a different side of England from cosmopolitan London - whose center is full of foreign tourists more than locals it seems sometimes.

Any paint you recommend for by next pint?

I think London is OK - but do look into what there is for children to do and where the local parks are. Every 2 year olds loves lakes and feeding the ducks and petting zoos and playgrounds and boat rides - and a tone of other kiddie things. And yes, Disney (they love disney videos at that age).

I would set aside time every day for the little one to run around - perhaps someplace you can relax and people watch.

Strongly reco Hampton court Palace from London - perhaps coming back by boat.

And I would add more days to Paris, to have time for kids stuff (not Disney but in Paris (ponds with boats, playgrounds, puppet shows etc) and just time to explore some cute neighborhoods.

I think London is OK - but do look into what there is for children to do and where the local parks are. Every 2 year olds loves lakes and feeding the ducks and petting zoos and playgrounds and boat rides - and a tone of other kiddie things. And yes, Disney (they love disney videos at that age).

I would set aside time every day for the little one to run around - perhaps someplace you can relax and people watch.

Strongly reco Hampton court Palace from London - perhaps coming back by boat.

And I would add more days to Paris, to have time for kids stuff (not Disney but in Paris (ponds with boats, playgrounds, puppet shows etc) and just time to explore some cute neighborhoods.

Think about adding Bruges somewhere. Our favorite spot but for an overnight stay not a day trip.

PQ: they have a toddler . . . the less dashing frantically about the better.

BigRuss. The joke maybe on you as not all of Australia was settled by Brittish Convicts. Really annoyed me when we visited the Tower and the guide said' to the Australians welcome home"

Thankyou everyone for your replies and being so nice, I was expecting to get roasted from only wanting to see sites and not the art or museums etc. To many to quote individually. We will definitely add 2 more nights in Paris. The reason we chose to fly into Amsterdam and work our way down south is if we do end up in South France which looks very likely, it will be later on in September when the crowds are thinning out while the weather is still pleasant. We love the look of South france and as stated it will be one less flight compared to flying to Athens.
Yes we will have a toddler, thsts why we thought just keep base in the cities I've mentioned, so if we have a off day ( which we will) we can just wander around and do a nothing day. I've written down all places mentioned by you to have a look. This is exactly what I wanted, parks, lakes etc for the little man so we are not dragging him around everyday and make it fun as possible for him. If it means we miss a sight or two then so be it.
Of course the Beatles lol

Your trip sound great. Enjoy the planning.

I forgot to add if you are interested the National Museum is a fantastic place to visit. I was a bit ho hum about going there but my husband wanted to go. I loved it probably enough to entertain a toddler as well although the dinosaur may be a little scary. I will go back there.
Also Churchill war rooms were fantastic. So many places so little time. Lol

Sorry, juleslove, but why would a 2 year old be interested in Disney? perhaps for older children, if you really must, but I can't see it holding any attractions for an Australian toddler. S/he'd be more interested in the zoo [a great one in Amsterdam and another in the Jardins des Plantes in Paris] and running around in the Luxembourg Gardens.

annhig, sorry but I can't believe your asking this question, do you think they would be interested in a slavery museum or the Beetles museum... Def not too young for Disneyland, there is loads for toddlers, family rides, shows, the parades, meeting the characters, Mickey Mouse cafe, fantasy land, just seeing their face light up, I could but won't go on, you are never too young or too old for Disneyland!

I have 3 children and it not occur to me to drag a 2 yr old all over Europe. I feel you will miss important sights and the child will be wishing he was at a playground.>>

they are not intending to drag their toddler all over Europe but to take a very leisurely look at small parts of 3 countries [possibly 4 if we include Greece] spread over 4-5 weeks. I'm the first one to advise parents to slow up, but this looks like a very well thought out trip, and I'm sure that we can rely upon their good sense to look for parks and playgrounds, I doubt that they need telling about that.

<<sorry but I can't believe your asking this question, do you think they would be interested in a slavery museum or the Beetles museum... Def not too young for Disneyland, there is loads for toddlers, family rides, shows, the parades, meeting the characters, Mickey Mouse cafe, fantasy land, just seeing their face light up, I could but won't go on, you are never too young or too old for Disneyland!>>

I've no idea whether the child in question has any interest in the Beetles [though he might like the music] or the Slavery museum, but I certainly don't take the view that parents should do nothing on holiday that does not appeal to their children as well, do you?

As for Disney, I'm sure that these parents know whether it will appeal to their child or not, but it's not a given that an Australian toddler is going to give a fig for Mickey Mouse, and it's a very expensive and not very convenient way of finding a playground. It sounds to me as if they have him very much in mind and want them all to have a good a time as possible.

cheska, the National Museum? Is that the Natural History Museum? Or in some other city than London?

To the OP, given the relatively slow pace of your trip as well as the age of your child, I'd look into apartments at each stop. I assume your child still naps. Can he nap on the go? Anyway a one-bedroom apartment allows him to nap and go to bed early in another room while you parents talk, watch TV, etc.

If you give us a budget, we can recommend apartments and/or agencies. Unfortunately the short-term rental scene in Paris is in chaos because the authorities are cracking down on illegally let apartments. So Paris is a bit of an issue.

cheska, the National Museum? Is that the Natural History Museum? Or in some other city than London?>>


given that Cheska mentions dinosaurs, I'd guess that she means the Natural History Museum in London, Mimar.

annhig thanks I do mean the Natural History Museum.

We are only going to liverpool so my husband can go to Anfield. The Beatles and slavery museum was only put there if we have a cpl of days to kill being as we are there for the weekend. There will be some places that only myself or my husband might go see alone, especially if the queues are long. ( that's why we have limited places as it is).
I'm sure my son would love Disneyland, l I think it might be a good day out for him to see something he recognises.
Mimar, we haven't had a great look as of yet but poking around $250AUD a night which is 165 euro and 130 pound. This is give or take, with London probably the most expensive.

Have you considered renting apartments in each of your locations? It is nice to have a little home to return to each day, not just a bed. You can make a few meals and it will give your little one a bit more space. Laundry facilities too will be a bonus.

Hyde park in London is lovely. You can spend a leisurely afternoon feeding the ducks/geese and relaxing by the pond.

Luxembourg gardens in Paris is another lovely park to stroll around. Bring along a picnic and relax.

Your time looks great, not rushed. Glad you are adding a couple days to Paris, especially with heading out to Versailles one day .

I can't see it holding any attractions for an Australian toddler.
But its not given that an Australian toddler is going to give a fig for Mickey Mouse

annhig....im lost for words, not sure what it is about being Australian has to do with it? I am Australian, i took my kids, one was 3 to Disneyland and they loved it, i kept the memory alive by photos, videos etc that i would get out now and then. I now have a 2 year old grand daughter who has more than 1 Mickey Mouse doll, she loves him!

bitlost, i am so glad you are considering Disneyland, a memory my kids still cherish and so do myself and my husband...enjoy your travels!

I am Australian, i took my kids, one was 3 to Disneyland and they loved it, i kept the memory alive by photos, videos etc that i would get out now and then. I now have a 2 year old grand daughter who has more than 1 Mickey Mouse doll, she loves him!>>

That's great, juleslove. My point however was that it wouldn't occur to me to go to France to see an essentially american attraction particularly with a 2 year old for whom it will mean very little. If that's what the OP wants to do, that's fine but it was your only suggestion, which seemed to me to be rather strange given that they are visiting France, not Florida.

bitlost, I read in your original post that you want to see a Liverpool match at Anfield (or your husband does). Unfortunately the fixtures for the 2016/17 season won't be released till next month and it may well be that Liverpool won't be playing at home in the small window of time you have there.

He can do a stadium tour http://stadiumtours.liverpoolfc.com/ to see the history of this once good club, but unfortunately they've not won much for a lot of years now. ;)

I'd suggest that he visits Old Trafford to see the museum and Trophy Exhibition, it's a bit more recent. :d
http://www.manutd.com/en/Visit-Old-T...dium-Tour.aspx

Rubicund, the fixtures are released in four days I think. 15th June. Watching liverpool at Anfield on this trip is a must lol. We will be planning on landing in Amsterdam and going to liverpool around a fixture there. No chance of getting him anywhere near a Manchester United museum ��