3 Months till Europe backpack/camping trip
 

Well this is my first time on any forum. I have done all the beginning steps like get a passport, I'm buying a ticket to london in July, but other than packing and such I don't really know what to expect or what to plan. This is my first time out the country, my first time traveling alone, and my first time camping out for so long. I wanted to visit for about 3 months depending on what happens. I just want to know how everyone else's camping experience was, what I should bring, and just some general information about my first big trip. I'm a 21 year old male and I'm not really nervous about my adventure. More excited really. But any and all information would be grateful.

Also I don't really know anyone in Europe.

Sounds a wonderful adventure, Nick. You don't say where you are from, but you should know that if you are not a citizen of a Schengen country your stay will be limited to 90 days.

Also, I might suggest that you also post on the Lonely Planet Thorn Tree, http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/index.jspa as that Forum tends to be populated by a much younger crown than the elderly old farts that inhabit this Forum. We will certainly be willing to help answer any of your questions, but few of us are into backpacking/camping. It would also help to know a bit about you, i.e., your interests, budget, etc. so we can give you more focused advice.

Many of the people on this forum are of more mature years and not very many of us are camping across europe.

So while we can provide info on itineraries, sights, etc to get info on details I would look at the site mentioned above and also google camping sites.

But you need to be aware of a couple of things:

Camping sights are typically outside of the larger cities and you may spend a significant amount of time and money getting from where you camp to the places where the sights are (obviously not true in the countryside)

Wherever you enter europe if you are young and look like you will be camping you may receive extra attention from the Immigration officers. They will probably ask you where you will be staying your first night (you need to know and have a reservation), if you have enough money to support yourself (cash, CC, proof of how much you have in the bank) and that you have a health insurance policy (they don't want you to be a charge on their free medical care)

Also to note; Switzerland and Scandinavia are VERY expensive - expect everything from food on up to cost at least twice what it does in the US (a big Mac meal can be the equivalent from $18 to $20).

Thank you very much for the tip! I'm flying into London in early July and then just visiting the various countries. How would I be able to make my trip longer than 3 months if I wanted? Also my budget is going to be around $2,000. I plan on buying at local groceries stores and finding the cheapest accommodation when it comes to campsites. I'm always willing to meet to people and just hoping for the best cultural experience.

The rules for the Schengen countries says you can stay 90 days in any 180 days on as a tourist. That means you can stay for 90 days, and then go to a non Schengen country for 90 days and then you can come back for another 90 days. To stay for longer requires a special visa and all sorts of stuff, which makes it quite difficult. Suggest you use the search function on this Forum for more information; it is discussed often.

$2,000 for three months???

Even camping I don't see how you could do 3 months on $2000. You will have higher transport costs since you'd be camping outside the city centers.

That is only £630/€500 per month. Even a bare bones budget would need to be nearly twice that.

<i>That is only £630/€500 per month. Even a bare bones budget would need to be nearly twice that.</i>

I'm too lazy to do the actual math, but I think the GBP number is supposed to less than the Euro number. :)

Perhaps &pound;430/&euro;500. Not much at any rate.

I suppose it could be done with couchsurfing or squatting - remember the scruffman threads? But he stayed put a lot, and slept for free. The OP will be paying to camp (or risk getting picked up as a vagrant) and moving around. He also may have trouble getting IN to any European countries if he can't show means of support - don't remember how the scruffman handled that.

The Schengen countries have a common travel area and entrance permit. Countries outside that agreement have their own requirements.

You'll need to work out which countries you want to visit, and check their immigration requirements accordingly to make sure you don't inadvertently fall foul of the rules. In addition to the advice above about having evidence of financial support (and a return ticket), don't carry anything on you that might suggest to a suspicious official that you might be thinking of trying to work in their country or staying on for a longer term.

So I have to have a return flight in order to even stay in countries. I am fine with bare bones that doesn't bother me. I am a Massage Therapist and was hoping to somehow look/find a job while I was over there. I plan on biking, walking, and busing for most of the trip. Anything I can do to make this trip easier and less expensive I will. I don't consider myself to be like a bum because I have a trade that can be used all over the world. I really appreciate all the help you given me. I now see that I have a lot of planning to do still. Any information on what areas I should avoid for expenses and and how I could extend my trip? Again Thank you for the help, I really want to do this.

You will be admitted as a tourist. It will be ILLEGAL for you to work while you are there, taking work away from legal residents.

How might I become a legal resident say in Spain or Italy? I have these 3 months and then the 3 months while I'm over there.

You can't (short of getting married). You can't support yourself without working, which means a work visa. To get that you need an employer to offer you a job - BEFORE you travel - and they would probably need to demonstrate they couldn't employ a local instead, which for massage services would be virtually impossible. Go to SE Asia. It's cheaper.

I don't understand. How can people spend their lives traveling the world if you can only spend a few months at a time in each country. I see of people all the time who just pick up and leave and stay on the road for years. I'm not saying your information is bad in any way but I'm saying there has to be other ways to gain citizenship or stay longer than 90 days. I don't mean to sound trite but this is so confusing to me. I'm getting mixed signals from sight to sight saying I can work and become a citizen then others saying I have no chance.

I suggest you ask the people you are "seeing". A lot of people freelance over the net on the road, which is probably technically illegal in Europe but not prosecuted. However, it would be a bit difficult to give a massage over the net.

I have spent up to 10 months on the road at a time, but I am retired and living on my pension. Plus I have dual US and UK citizenship, so don't have to worry about the Schengen 90 day limit - which is relatively new.

"sight to sight [sic] saying I can work and become a citizen" - links, please.

Would it be easier for me to get a dual citizenship in the UK?

Are you eligible to get UK citizenship?

You cant just move wherever you want in the world and 'get' citizenship. You have to meet immigration requirements.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...p/eligibility/

If you are eligible then yes, that would allow you to travel and work in the EU.

I appreciate the help. But how can you become a citizen if you are not aloud to stay for a certain amount of time? Would it be easier for me to become a citizen if I acquire a working visa and how hard are those to obtain? Again, thanks to all of you for the help. I have 3 months till my trip and after all this information I feel a little more at ease. I now realize that you can't just go and live wherever but I do want to try to live in Europe if there was any way to do that.

There are a few countries that enable you to get a second citizenship (Ireland is one of them, and I have Irish citizenship as well as US, so I can stay in Europe for as long as I like), but you have to meet the eligibility requirements, and pay for it. Otherwise, if you overstay the requirement (in your case, 90 days), you become an illegal alien and risk arrest, deportation, banishment from further travel in the country, etc. It's not as though people can just go anywhere in the world and stay there - that's what immigration law is all about. Surely you're aware of all the controversy right here in the USA regarding illegal immigration.

Having a skill (in your case massage therapy) that is useful all over the world does not make you legally employable anywhere but in your country of citizenship. If you accept money for services in any country but your own you are violating the law. You need a work permit, sponsorship by an American company, or long-term visa, none of which I can imagine you're eligible for. And with your stated budget, you may well just be turned away at the point of entry at whatever airport you turn up in. Authorities there will want to know how you intend to support yourself while visiting and how you plan to return home (ticket).

With current technology, you are pretty much traceable anywhere in the world these days, and subject to significantly more scrutiny than in the past, so I'd take these matters seriously. What you WANT to to and what is POSSIBLE for you to do legally and without repercussions may be two different things entirely.

"Would it be easier for me to become a citizen if I acquire a working visa and how hard are those to obtain?"

Yes. But you would have to live in (e.g.) the UK for five years after you arrived with the work visa.

"how hard are those to obtain?"

Very difficult in your case. (My US work visa was obtained by the multinational company for which I worked in the UK, and which wanted to send me to the US.)

I suggest you spend some time on the embassy websites reading the regulations. But you would do better to accept that you are limited to 6 months in the UK and 90 days in the Schengen zone and that you need to have enough money to support yourself for that time before you arrive.

I now see that I my trip isn't going to be about me moving over there now but more about the 3 months I can spend over there. Are you saying that it is going to impossible for me to even visit for 3 months with that budget? Even if I am camping in living as minimal as possible?

You are all so brutally honest but I'm glad. I was having visions of grandeur like I would be able to just go over there and stay as long as I wanted. That idea is out of my mind for a while now. I do intend on still going over to Europe for the allotted time and camping as much as I can. I appreciate all of the insight you have given me.

You can go online and google what it costs to camp in whatever countries you're planning to visit, but keep in mind, as already mentioned, that campsites are always outside (sometimes far outside) cities and towns, so if you're planning to do any "typical" sightseeing in cities and towns, it will cost you something to get there and back in most cases. And if you're planning to move around among countries, there are transportation costs involved. And you do have to eat. And it would be wise to have enough money for the occasional emergency.

There's no telling how detailed a grilling you may get at your point of entry, but it is well within the rights of immigration authorities to demand that you show evidence of an address you plan to stay at, even temporarily, a ticket home, and ample funds to live on during your stay.

And don't start thinking in terms of "three months." It's VERY specific - 90 DAYS! One day over and you're breaking the law.

nytraveler wrote: >>Switzerland and Scandinavia are VERY expensive - expect everything from food on up to cost at least twice what it does in the US (a big Mac meal can be the equivalent from $18 to $20).<<

The cost of a big Mac meal costs about $10 in Sweden. The cost of food in Scandinavia are often exaggerated by certain posters.

I'm joined a site that shows me all the campsites in each country and the price of the campsite. $2,000 is a rough estimate really, I will have a credit card for emergency/flight home. I know that with this budget I won't be eating fancy meals anytime soon or visiting all the major sites, but for me it is about getting out of the US and experiencing something outside of the norm. Living on what I know how to do. I don't want to sound ignorant or oblivious to the whole money situation but I'm going to stay as long as I can "inside the 90 days"

You will want to have booked your flight home prior to arriving. Booking a one way flight home at the last minute will be HUGELY expensive - plus if you are asked at immigration controls on entry you need to be able to prove you have transportation home...

I assume you are North American?

Good! Just keep in mind that if you stay the full 90 days, that is about $22 per day (or about E15). It will be very hard even to camp and eat on that, never mind move around. And when you enter the country the authorities may ask to see an actual ticket home - unlikely they will want to see just a credit card that you might use to buy one with (how would they know the credit card is even valid?). Also, what is the point of just carrying a credit card to pay for a flight home? It will almost certainly be WAY more expensive to purchase a one-way fare back home from Europe at the last minute than to buy a RT fare before the trip.

>>I'm too lazy to do the actual math, but I think the GBP number is supposed to less than the Euro number. :)<<

OOPS (and I even knew what I meant - I goofed and typed the $ amount per month instead of the £ amount)

In any case - it doesn't really matter at this point since neither is doable.

>>How can people spend their lives traveling the world if you can only spend a few months at a time in each country.<<

to clarify - it isn't a 'few months' in <u>each</u> country.It is a few months (90 days) in all of the Schengen zone. If you spend a few months in one country - that is all you get. 30 days in 3 different countries, 60 days in one and 30 in another, six days in fifteen different countries . . . as long as it is only 90 days total.

And I'd bet you haven't read any sites that have said it is <i>easy</i> to get citizenship in any of those countries. That is silly. Some sites probably do give hints/tips for over-staying in Schengen but most likely you'd get caught, fined and deported.

As others have said, you should buy a return ticket, which will in any case be cheaper. Look for an open jaw/multi-city ticket - arrive in London, leave from somewhere else.

You need to read Lonely Planet's "Europe On a Shoestring", but bear in mind it was researched in 2010 and the prices are way out of date. Also read Let's Go Europe.

Then head over to Lonely Planet's website, where you will find people on the discussion boards who travel on very little, and where you will also find this under Destinations - Europe:

"Excluding transport costs, you can get by on about €40 to €80 a day in Western Europe. You might be able to squeak by on less in smaller towns and in Mediterranean Europe, but Switzerland costs at the upper end of the range.

Eastern Europe is the cheapest region, costing a daily total of €30 to €50, although Ukraine and Russia can be more expensive. Scandinavia is slightly dearer than Western Europe (especially when it comes to alcohol)."

Use xe.com to convert euro to USD, and note that it excludes transport costs. Then earn some more money.

Also, as a matter of interest, how much does it cost you per day to live in the US?

I am North American. I realize that my budget is light, but i don't need a lot. It is only me and I have cut down much spending to become custom to using practically nothing. I want to buy a one way ticket because I need to buy the ticket soon and I don't have the money for and "open-ended" ticket. I've done my research on kayak and other websites and prices are nearly the same for any way you want to fly. I understand you are giving me information but now you are just telling me that I have to chance to do it on that budget.

http://www.immigrationmatters.co.uk/...n-arrival.html

Scroll down and read about the questions that will be asked when you arrive. And note what it says about arriving on a one-way ticket.

If you can't afford a return ticket you can't afford to travel, and you stand a real risk of beimg denied entry to your first country.

You didn't answer my question. How much are you spending per day in the US? Realize that you will spend more when traveling. If you want to cook for yourself you will need to stay somewhere with kitchen facilities, e.g. a hostel (check prices at hostelbookers and hostelworld). Otherwise you will eat take out or in cafes which will be more expensive.

Go read the books and website I suggested. And check out couchsurfing, it's probably the only way you're going to manage this trip.

In a matter of hours you've put my dreams in the gutter.

Well, sorry, but better to know this now rather than buy a ticket and get turned away by the border officials.

Obviously I can't go for an extended amount of time. I don't understand, how can I have money and still be denied. All this "crap" makes me want to not even travel. This has been the most disheartening day.

Nah, there not in the gutter...perhaps a tad postponed.
All the better to read more, figure out what it is YOU like...and save some money. Maybe joining the Lonely Planet website or some such, you'll meet someone with your interests.

Nah...not the gutter.

The problem is that if you can't afford a return ticket the immigration officials will have to conclude that you will be a burden on the country you are entering (using the benefits that tax payers in that country pay for). How will you raise the cash to buy the return ticket once you are in the country if you can't work because you don't have a work visa? You are either going to work illegally which they won't like or you will need help to support yourself like benefits which they aren't going to like.

North America is the same - you can't just pick up and move to Canada or vice versa the USA because you want to!!!

Your best option is to wait and save your money until you can afford to do this trip. And in the meantime you need to do some research about travel and entry requirements so you know what to expect.

No one wants to shatter your dreams, but there are rules and laws you must learn if you are going to travel outside your home country.

I have camped all over Europe many many times and love it but it is more conducive to having a car - though cities like Paris have excellent camps in or near them and easily accessible by public transit commuter times can be an hour or so each way and if you do not have a car carrying camping gear around on trains is a pain in the .... rear - though I have done that many times to when younger.

I would say look at youth hostels and youth hotels - there are zillions of these places and the overnight fee may not be much more than camp fees where one person often pays a plot fee the same as several folks in one party would.

Plus camping can be isolating - in a hostel or youth hotel you will meet many other folks from all over the world of your age and this is one reason IMO to keep your itinerary flexible - I was your age when I first went and met some folks at various times and changed my travel plans to either go somewhere I heard was 'hot' or to travel with some gal I thought was hot - still remember that young Dutch gal I met at a hostel in Ireland!

Anyway even cars can be isolating - by all means take the train IMO and look strongly at the various Youthpasses - lower-cost rail passes for folks under the age 26 - younger folk from all over the world will be using trains to get along. Overnight trains link many cities - cover large swaths of ground at night and save on the cost of a hostel or hotel.

If you buy a Eurail Youthpass then you can get a BritRail Youthpass at 50% off - a great deal for taking trains around England, Scotland and Wales!

Check out these IMO fantastic sites for planning a European rail trip - www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free and superb IMO European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of suggested rail itineraries in various countries.