How Freudian.

...but isn't there a difference between "2 things I would never do" and "100 things we think other people shouldn't do"

Some people get unwillingly influenced , in a positive or negative way, with what others or their children do ( on holidays as well as at home).
I always find it amusing when a parent seriously talks to a four year old about finer points of Hopper's art or Miro's use of colour ( I witnessed both) while the kid is only interested in picking his nose.

Simple; 1. I would never go anywhere when there are not many other tourists. Great part of the experience, meeting people from other countries, or from your own country. 2. July and August are perfect for us, but must have A/C. Of our thirty trips to Europe, perhaps eight have been in February, April or September. This August, Scandinavia, our 50th.

>>Some people get unwillingly influenced , in a positive or negative way, with what others or their children do ( on holidays as well as at home). I always find it amusing when a parent seriously talks to a four year old about finer points of Hopper's art or Miro's use of colour ( I witnessed both) while the kid is only interested in picking his nose.<<

You know what? I doubt you know very much at all about the parents or children whom you are so bemusedly observing - what their motivations are, what they've done together, what their interests are. You are forming snap judgments about other people based on your own biases. You are certainly free to do so, especially if it amuses you so much, but it makes you no less a busybody.

I don't want to be a drag here. I have no trouble with people saying that they themselves would not travel with children, nor people admitting that are bothered by children they encounter in public, nor even people quietly disapproving of others parenting choices.

I don't really appreciate it when people glibly imply (as some have done here) that taking a child to an art museum is something short of child abuse.

And I am similarly "amused" by people who can fixate on the annoyances that they are caused by parents and their children without realizing that there may indeed be things that they do that bother other people (like, for example, staring in amusement at parents and their children, even "unwillingly", while at an art museum).

>>I always find it amusing when a parent seriously talks to a four year old about finer points of Hopper's art or Miro's use of colour ( I witnessed both) while the kid is only interested in picking his nose.<< ~ danon

Oh, danon, give these poor suckers some support.

I am most definitely guilty of this kind of thing. I view raising kids as throwing mud against a wall and hoping something sticks. Surprisingly, some of it does -- but it could be years before you see the clay harden into something recognizable and by then you might have given up.

Talking to my young adult kids has led to some fascinating moments when they confide that they are so glad I taught them: fill in the blank. The seemingly daft little nose-pickers do sometimes have more thought processes going on behind the scenes than meet the eye. It just takes a while to click.

This more than makes up for the times when I looked at my ungrateful teens and thought, "Why on earth did I bother to try so hard?"

Patience, persistence and a long view are evidently crucial. I applaud those determined parents for the quality of their mud-flinging.

walkinaround. You still don't get it - but that isn't a big deal/unusual.

She wasn't ordering "Americano" -- or even "American" expecting to get Americano. She was ordering American expecting to get Folgers . . . .

And I apologize to thread readers for hijacking the topic a bit.

I get the spirit of the opening post and am trying to take it all in good humor, believe me. I'm a little sensitive on the travelling with children point, so I'll try to contain myself going forward.

In the spirit of reconciliation, here's two things I would never do in Europe:

- I would not delay learning about the currency of the host country and attempt to learn the approximate exchange rate, even memorizing a quick formula or rule-of-thumb for conversion. I was in Prague with my father where he purchased, on day three, a souvenir for the equivalent of 40 USD which he thought cost 10 USD by making a rash (and inaccurate) mental conversion.

- I would not avoid making a small investment in learning a little bit about the native language and a few phrases (excuse me, thank you, hello) just to make it a little easier to be a part of the day-to-day wherever I am.

Woyzeck; It's very easy to see who has a negative or positive attitude and this thread is a prime example.

I definitely raised my child with the assumption that I should talk to him about things he might not yet fully understand. How else was he to come to understand them? Looking back, I'd say travel, just for the experience of being in places not familiar, where things are done in different ways and the world is seen differently, was the greatest experience I provided. And often it was very fun for me too.

iris- "Simple; 1. I would never go anywhere when there are not many other tourists. Great part of the experience, meeting people from other countries"

.... while I wouldn't go that far, I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with places that have tourists. I recently recommended on another thread that Bellagio was lovely and someone wrote back that it was too touristy. Well, so is the Eiffel tower and the Louvre and the Sistine chapel, eh?! Some places have lots of tourists because they are spectacular and unique and many people are willing to travel to see them.

And regarding kids, you never do know what they are absorbing. I recently said something to my son that I didn't think I had said before.... something about "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". He grimaced with displeasure and said he didn't like that phrase when I said it to him at age 4 or 5 either!

I've been to Paris June and July. enjoyed every moment.
your reality is not mine.
no matter what month I travel France, I have had great experiences and met wonderful Frech people who became my friends.

Woyzeck on May 16, 10 at 2:48pm

>>Some people get unwillingly influenced , in a positive or negative way, with what others or their children do ( on holidays as well as at home). I always find it amusing when a parent seriously talks to a four year old about finer points of Hopper's art or Miro's use of colour ( I witnessed both) while the kid is only interested in picking his nose.<<

"You know what? I doubt you know very much at all about the parents or children whom you are so bemusedly observing - what their motivations are, what they've done together, what their interests are. You are forming snap judgments about other people based on your own biases. You are certainly free to do so, especially if it amuses you so much, but it makes you no less a b'"

Perhaps you can get off your high horse and get a sense of humor!

Anytime anyone is with their child giving them guidance and attention, is a good thing. If a parent wants to start explaining art to a young “nose picker”, good job. They’re teaching the child something and should be applauded.

>>For better or worse, I think the reason a lot of Fodorite regulars visit the site is 'cause they do love to tell people where to go & what to do. Strong and wide-ranging -- sometimes raging -- opinions do make for an awfully fun read.<<

Also , some love to lecture people while extolling their stellar character and, of course, their impeccable parenting .

Hmmm - I hope you weren't referring to me since I certainly wouldn't qualify for either "stellar character" or "impeccable parenting." I've just been muddling through with a growing surprise that I've almost pulled it off (parenting and life). Probably shouldn't breathe any sighs of relief just yet, though.

>>Perhaps you can get off your high horse and get a sense of humor!<<

Thanks, danon. I've said my piece and admitted I am sensitive when it comes to this particular topic (kids and travel). I also had a moment of sincere self-critical reflection a couple of comments ago. I attempted to right the ship and contribute something else to the conversation and will refrain from adding any more fuel to this particular fire. Like most here, I am a generally levelheaded and well-meaning contributor prone to occasional bouts of humorlessness. There are plenty of high horses around here and I've humbly put mine back in the stable.

no sap, I was not.
I guess most people are touchy when it comes to topic of ( their) kids.
Best to forget the whole 'side" thread.

Back to topic:
2 things I would never do in Europe.
1. Drink bottled water in Rome (best tap water anywhere)
2. Order cappucino after noon.

1. Get in the line of fire when Americans fight over what to do or not to do in Europe, especially when it involves coffee or children.
2. Lecture anyone on the spelling of Italian coffee specialties regardless of time of day.

Cboy-nineteen sixty eight

2. But you did!
Sorrey, i wuz never very good at speling in skool.

Of course, I would order CAPPUCCINO anytime, anywhere