A couple of points about taking kids (as we get ready for 2 weeks in the U.K. with our 9 and 4 yo)-

--If I was concerned about whether they'll truly appreciate an experience, or remember the details, why would I take them anywhere, even to our local museums and such?

--If you have children that are separated in age, you can't just sit around making the oldest wait around for the youngest to grow up.

--For every art gallery and fine meal we've missed, we have a memory of something that we never would have seen or done without the children.

Yes, dancing bear, in jetsetj's world, families with children would probably be best locking themselves indoors until the child grows into adulthood. It's for the good of all, especially jetsetj, who shoulders a heavy burden worrying about the well-being of all those poor children traveling in Europe and the poor parents who are wasting all their money on a trip that they couldn't possibly enjoy. I'm surprised anyone has children at all, since they spoil everyone's enjoyment of the best things in life, such as art galleries and airplane rides.

Thank goodness for jetsetj coming here and telling everyone what to do with their own children ("unless you are going to eurodisney, leave them at home and enjoy yourself !!!"). It's unimaginable that anyone would actually choose the company of a child, much less enjoy it. So we all owe jetsetj a big round of applause of saving parents from their own horrible children. Imagine a world without children - oh, what a wonderful place it would be. Maybe we should send all the children to the USA, so that adults would be free to roam the best sights in Europe without the little disgusting humans roaming underfoot, getting in the way, and ruining things for us adults.

walkinaround on May 16, 10 at 4:32am

as usual, these american 'how you should act in europe' rules leave us europeans scratching our heads and laughing at the bizarre stereotypes and 4-5 decades old ideas of europe."

condescending, aren't we?
sounds like bizarre stereotypes of Americans from 4-5 decades ago.

I have seen French families in new York looking like ,OMG, tourists; Italians yelling at a Spanish waiter in Italian ( well...it is just like Spanish!), Germans dressed in the geekiest outfits in the middle of Paris..
Lumping all Americans as a bunch who feels they have to act sophisticated because they are , after all, in the capital of culture like Birmingham, is as ridiculous as declaring all Europeans cosmopolitan bon-vivants.

walkingaround, If someone asks me, hables espanol? Here in San Diego my first reaction is to say no. I speak Spanish but do I speak it well enough to help them? I don't know, it's easier to say no and let them find someone else who speaks Spanish better than I.
If the same person came to me in poor English and said, "where is Balboa Park?" I would help them. I know that my Spanish is up to telling someone how to get around or answering simple questions.

Plus, as I said, it isn't a surprise to me that I find myself in Germany needing to know how to find something. It doesn't surprise me that not everyone knows English. Some people don't or they are not comfortable enough with English to want to bother. I find if I approach in their language, they have an opportunity to switch to English, listen to me murder their language or move on.

If I'm the one wanting their help, I want to do everything I can to help them help me.

When I travelled with my 4 year old in Italy many people who would not otherwise have interacted with us did so, because we found many italians in both cities and rural areas to be interested in kids. And now, at 22, there are aspects of that trip ( mostly food!) that my son still talks about.

jubilada - thanks for posting that. I imagine that jetsetj will be shocked that your son didn't ruin your vacation and leave you longing for peaceful strolls through art galleries, although he would certainly reproach you for your "cruel" parenting - borderline child abuse I suppose.

I'm willing to guess when you were there with your son, your little boy was generally enjoying himself and the new surroundings and not completely clueless and longing for his "toys at home." I shudder to think how many innocent bystanders had their vacations ruined by the sight of a parent travelling with a 4-year-old.

One thing I would never do in Europe:

Make judgments about other people and the choices they make while travelling. Time and energy are precious while travelling in Europe. The best attitude to have is to focus on your experience and the shared experience with your travel companions and on being respectful visitors in a foreign land. Time spent thinking about other tourists and the things that they do that you would not do is a waste of time. People who are different than you will not go away and, in the end, are only are as important as you yourself make them.

My best European vacation was a trip to italy with 3 other couples. I did all the planning and was expected to be the expert on our arrangements and activities. i loved every minute of it and every time we are together (its been 6 years) they heap praise on me.

"<i>as usual, these american 'how you should act in europe' rules leave us europeans scratching our heads and laughing at the bizarre stereotypes and 4-5 decades old ideas of europe.</i>"

:D You take the bait every time. Have you been at the paint w/ PQ?

Sure there is "American Coffee". My situation was a ditzy broad who had 'heard' the coffee is terrible in Europe and the ONLY way to get something drinkable was to order 'Good Old Amuriken Coffee'. Not knowing it was espresso w/hot water. And she convinced 4 other ladies to do the same thing every day for 2 weeks.

And go ahead and ask for separate checks in London or Paris or the pub in Lower Quinton. Especially for a party of 5 or 6 . . . You'll be sitting there for 40 minutes while staff tries to figure out how to make the computer spit out 5 bills.

Re: traveling with children, reiterating the obvious but it really depends on the children and the age.

We traveled courtesy Uncle Sam when they were toddlers but for relocating not for fun. Indeed it wasn't fun.

We and they had a wonderful trip to Sweden with the lads were 9 and 10. Wouldn't trade that for anything.

We and they had a miserable trip to Ireland and Scotland when they were 17 and 18 and sulking. We didn't travel with them again till they were just out of college and appreciated going to the Big Island (Hawaii) on our dime.

"Time spent thinking about other tourists and the things that they do that you would not do is a waste of time."

Exactly right. You can only take your own trip.

"Exactly right. You can only take your own trip."

Exactly. The thread was about an individual's choice :
"2 things I would never do in Europe "!

thanks janis but ordering 'an americano' in europe is no stranger than ordering 'an espresso' in the usa.

i guess i don't dissect a person's motivation for ordering something. so maybe we can just all agree that it is OK to order an americano in europe (as millions of europeans do every day) but it's NOT OK to order an americano if you are american, stupid and say things like "good ol' murican coffee". as i said before...whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

i completely agree with woyzeck...stop worrying about the embarrassing stuff that other americans do in europe and just enjoy your trip. i can only imagine some fodorite's travel journals...

'oh my gawd, i saw an american who didn't know that you are supposed to whisper in europe. oh and the stupid guy with the white tennis shoes ordering an american coffee. how about the idiot who tried to speak english in denmark. don't get me started on that ugly american who wore a baseball hat to the louvre or the american i saw walking into a burger king in paris. oh my gawd, these people make me sooooo angry and ashamed. why isn't there a test that you have to take before they let people go to europe!!!'

"Exactly right. You can only take your own trip."

"Exactly. The thread was about an individual's choice :
"2 things I would never do in Europe "!"

Exactly.

...but isn't there a difference between "2 things I would never do" and "100 things we think other people shouldn't do"

Travel is not about you but where you are.

>>Travel is not about you but where you are.<< ~ Aduchamp

Yes, but also about being changed by where you've been.

>>We and they had a wonderful trip to Sweden with the lads were 9 and 10.<< ~ annw

Oh yes, that was my favorite age - old enough to get it and young enough to enjoy it. I liked ALL my kids at that stage of life. With all the other ages/stages, it seemed to be a crap shoot, depending entirely on the individual.

>>...but isn't there a difference between "2 things I would never do" and "100 things we think other people shouldn't do"<< ~ Woyzeck

For better or worse, I think the reason a lot of Fodorite regulars visit the site is 'cause they do love to tell people where to go & what to do. Strong and wide-ranging -- sometimes raging -- opinions do make for an awfully fun read.

>>For better or worse, I think the reason a lot of Fodorite regulars visit the site is 'cause they do love to tell people where to go & what to do. Strong and wide-ranging -- sometimes raging -- opinions do make for an awfully fun read.<<

I'll give you that, sap.

>>>>>
For better or worse, I think the reason a lot of Fodorite regulars visit the site is 'cause they do love to tell people where to go & what to do.
>>>>>

and, as seen in this threat...how to act when you get there!

threat = thread