12 Day Central Europe Itinerary
 

Hey everyone! It has been awhile since I have posted in the forums, but I have always found them extremely helpful. Since my last post, I've visited roughly 14+ countries, and have taken several cruises. However, I feel it is time for a "REAL" European vacation - meaning, not on a cruise ship. Yup, it's time to put on the big boy pants and learn to rail Europe.

So my friend has decided to join me, as she wants me to "teach her how to travel". Little does she know I'm really just an expert at forums and Google, lol. Plus, of course, some life experience! :)

We have decided on visiting Central Europe - and have approximately 13-14 days (including arrival and departure) to travel. Our only plan so far is flying into Belfast (we've been invited by a friend of mine who own several great hotels) and seeing Vienna and Prague.

Her interests are Gothic architecture and seeing Europe in general; for me, I am just interested in her being happy and in seeing countries I haven't cruised to (pretty much all of the Mediterranean, and most of Scandinavia).

Would some of you seasoned travelers make some recommendations for us or offer any advice?

I've heard traveling by train at night is the way to go, to maximize time in the cities we visit. I'd prefer a private sleeper for her and I. I don't want to share couchettes, and don't want to be divided up by gender.

I will be 41 (with the spirit of a 30something year old) who loves music, food, and history. She's late 20's, in the Army, and loves the sciences, music, food and art. But she's also a normal girl who likes normal girl stuff, lol.

So, any ideas would be amazing. Thank you so much in advance!

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving for those in the States and a Happy Thursday for everyone else!

Eric

Central Europe = Vienna, Prague, Budapest, or Vienna, Prague, Berlin. None of which requires an overnight train.

>>I've heard traveling by train at night is the way to go, to maximize time in the cities we visit.<<

Not really. You might have several sleepless nights and then you'll arrive in your next city in the very early AM and can't check into your hotel until mid afternoon so you are either slogging around w/ your bags, or you have to go to the hotel twice - once to drop the bags and then later to check in.

Most of the cities you mention don't even have overnight trains between them.

I sounds like Belfast, Prague and Vienna are your primary 'musts'. W/ only 11-12 free days you could add one other city, or two at most.

Checking flights from Belfast to Vienna or Prague, I think you'll find that the ones to Prague will be shorter in duration.

When are you going? Advice can vary significantly based on that!

Are your plane tickets already purchased?
If not, do you personally have a strong interest in Belfast? Unless this friend is so close that you are going specifically to see him, then reconsider.
Even a nice hotel would not make up for skipping a place I really wanted to see and going to a place that was not of primary interest.

Your choices seem unusual, especially if this is new to her, and she loves art, but you must have particular reasons. Of course, everyplace does have art museums, and Vienna has music and great food, just not in the realm of Paris, Rome, Florence, etc.

If you are used to cruising, you are used to getting a bite of different places. At an archeological sight or small town, that may be enough. But you really miss out on being in places at night when the vibe is often totally different. You also miss out on the opportunity to explore more at leisure the neighborhoods, cafes and many, many museums, churches, etc. in cities. The other thing you miss out on, on a cruise, is being able to take day trips to fascinating places close to the cities or the countryside.

What I am getting at is the suggestion that you treat a land trip very differently from a cruise or tour. Pick two or three cities or areas that really tug at your heart. Research all there is to see and do there. Then research to see what is nearby for a day trip or overnight. Group interesting places so you spend less time traveling and more time "being there."

"Would some of you seasoned travelers make some recommendations for us or offer any advice?"

First and foremost -- consult some good guidebooks. You can buy a few -- their cost will be nothing in comparison to the cost of your trip, or you can consult them for free at your local library. You will learn things that you never thought to ask.

Well Prague has a lot of Art Deco and just a tiny bit of Gothic. Vienna is not really Gothic, while Belfast is really Imperial (if such a style existed).

I think you might do better to look at smaller cities which had not been bombed flat so perhaps

Paris (the central Island seemed to get missed a lot), Rheims where the fizzy wine comes from, Strasbourg, Ulm, Venice.

Night trains, I'd drop these Hercule Poirot ideas, trains don't really go that slow any more.

Actually I'll take it back about Prague after my brain switched on.

Try also

Prague, Czech Republic:
Rothenburg, Germany:
Mont Saint Michel, France:
Carcassonne, France:
Edinburgh, Scotland:
Siena, Italy:
York, England:
Colmar, France: (though Colmar is pretty small)

The authentic expert on travelling by rail is here: www.seat61.com
But unless you want to spend much of your short vacation sitting on trains and standing in train stations, get more realistic about destinations. A maximum, if you want to do more than glance at things out the window, is three cities (not countries.)

Agree that if you want to go to Central Europe it is odd to start in Belfast, especially when this is a short trip to start with. Also agree that the era of night trains is pretty much over - I quite liked them, but with the advent of fast trains they aren't needed any more. Now, if you want to spend a LOT of money and are starting in the west, there is always the Venice Simplon Orient Express - http://www.seat61.com/Venice-Simplon-Orient-Express.htm - but I don't think that's what you had in mind.

For a taste of Central Europe I would add Budapest to Vienna and Prague. Don't know why bilbo is dissing Vienna, maybe he is forgetting St. Stephen's cathedral. It is also a great museum city.

it's time to put on the big boy pants and learn to rail Europe.>

For lots on learning the rope of European trains check www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com (their online European Planning & Rail Guide has many rail itineraries).

Night trains are great but not for everyone- especially light sleepers but can be a utiltarian way to cover long distances without wasting any daytime travel time and you also save on a night in a hotel. Try to do one at least for the experience -bring whatever food or drink aboard and chill.

"dissing" ?

If I understand you correctly ;-)

Nothing wrong with Vienna, just not very gothic, more one of those places the Hapsberg's knocked about a bit (very Imperial and I too like the museums).

I suspect Nottingham has more from the required period and I'm not suggesting going there.

Hey all -

Thank you so much for the replies thus far; you've given me a great deal to think about!

Belfast is pretty much because we were invited and I figured if we have 12-days, why not spend two days with friends? But it isn't 100% required. I can always go back and visit these mates. Or see them on the way back to the States?

I should probably clarify the need to see Gothic architecture - it was something she mentioned when talking to me about her desire to go to Europe, but isn't the prevailing requirement.

I've cruised Northern Europe (Oslo, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Visby, Warnemunde/Rostock), Mediterranean (Barcelona, Toulon, Villefranche, Monte Carlo, Vatican, Rome, Cinque Terre, Venice, Split, Dubrovnik, Ephesus, and Rhodes/Lindos). So I thought perhaps it would be nice to rail through "Central" Europe.

I forgot just how much money can be saved by cruising - hotels, train tickets, food, etc - it really adds up fast!

I should add we are going the last two weeks of May, 2017.

So stay in B&Bs and pensions and guesthouses. Buy your train tickets ahead of time for great savings (read seat61.com). Don't eat fancy. And enjoy the fact that you have time to actually experience a place imstead of blowing through it and crossing it off a list.

Beautiful time to go!

Cruises can be a bargain, but spending time "in" a place is a different experience, plus shore excursions, even on your own, can add a lot of cost to a Cruise.

A land trip does not have to be terribly pensive either if you do not try to go to too many places and/or places very far apart. You can spend a ton of money and time on moving around.

You can save money by renting an apartment for a few days and giving yourselves more of an immersion experience.

Read, research, think about it. Pick two places to start. See what can be added.

lots of money folks drop in Europe are on discretionary expenses - coffees at outdoor cafes are sweet but expensive -several a day could cost a fortune for low-budgets- same with restaurants -very expensive usually - even McDonalds- picnic or go to a supermarket and get deli fare for your room- anyway certain expenses can be avoided.

If in Vienna, do a day trip [by rail or boat] to Bratislava. It is interesting to see that Soviet influence that still remains.

We did Vienna as a day trip and stayed in Bratislava. That was interesting but not sure I'd recommend it - doing it the other way makes more sense. We started in Prague [flew in from Paris], then train to Batislava and then train into Budapest.

We went during winter, so we saw a lot of Christmas market stuff. But the history and architecture was so amazing.

Have a grand time!

So this is the itinerary I've/we've come up with so far. What are peoples' thoughts? Too much too fast?

May 15 - Leave LAX for Amsterdam
May 16 - Arrive Amsterdam. Check into hotel. Explore/dinner.
May 17 - Explore Amsterdam - Anne Frank House/Rembrandt/Van Gogh Museums
May 18 - Day train to Berlin (6.5 hours). Check into hotel. Freshen up. Explore!
May 19 - Berlin sightseeing.
May 20 - Berlin
May 21 - Day train from Berlin to Prague (5 hours). Check into hotel. Explore.
May 22 - Prague - St. Charles Bridge/Touristy Spots.
May 23 - Prague - More touristy spots! Lots of pictures taken. Yay Instagram!
May 24 - Prague - Day excursion to Brno (churches) or Pilsen (beer!)
May 25 - Day train from Prague to Vienna (4 hours/25 minutes). Hotel. Explore.
May 26 - Sight see in Vienna - palace/museums and such.
May 27 - Day trip to Salzburg (3h11m each way). Mozart’s birthplace and The Sound of Music!
May 28 - Day trip - the Alps! (Vienna-Villach-Salzburg-Vienna)
May 29 - Leave Vienna for LAX

I'd really love to visit Rothenburg ob deb Tauber, however it seems to be sorta equidistance from Berlin and Vienna.

@DebitNM - I've been thinking about Bratislava as well - would be an amazing day trip. From a historical aspect, I'd LOVE to see the Soviet influence which still remains.

So ... only 1+ day in Amsterdam, 2+ days in Berlin, 2+ days in Prague (plus one day dedicated to a day trip), 1+ day in Vienna (plus 2 days trips to see Salzburg and the Alps from there)?

BYH. I would hate this trip, and I travel hard! I can't imagine spending that much time in transit to see so little of what these great cities afford. JMO. If you were to cut your destinations in half, I might (just maybe might) be able to understand the trip.

But if it meets your needs and interests, hey, its your trip.

Good luck!

@KJA - I appreciate the honesty! This is information I need to know. Quite honestly, I'm starting to get overwhelmed with all there is to see and do.

I suppose the more I think about it, my "must haves" really are:

Rotheburg Ob Deb Tauer
Salzburg/Villach (Alps)
Prague
Vienna

Bonus City would be a day trip to Bratislava.

Would that be more reasonable?

Yes - MUCH more reasonable! :-) And I'm glad that you appreciated my honesty.

Fly into one city and out of another ("open jaw") -- I think Prague and Vienna would work as your anchors, but you should play with some options before committing. Be sure to give your self a little extra time in your arrival city to deal with jet lag.

And get yourselves, or consult, some good guidebooks. The cost will be nugatory in comparison to the cost of your trip -- or you can see them at your local library.

Enjoy!

bratislava is not that great. Still nor is Pilsen but at least you can taste lagared beer rather than the modern stuff.

I did Bratislava as a day trip from Vienna and for a day I loved it- nicely restored old town center on the Danube. But everyone has a subjective opinion but Bratislava surprised me from what I had been expecting in former Soviet-bloc countries.

I think your itinerary is fine until the 26th

Mat 27 - Day trip to Salzburg (3h11m each way). Mozart’s birthplace and The Sound of Music!
May 28 - Day trip - the Alps! (Vienna-Villach-Salzburg-Vienna)

These are incredibly long day trips -OK if like riding trains thru nice scenery but why not stay in Salzburg 2 nights and take the train to Munich in less than 2 hours to fly out?

Vienna -Salzburg via Villach is much more scenic but a lot longer I think- especially for a day trip.

KJA/PalenQ/BilboBurgler (heh, cool name),

Thanks for your comments!

I probably should mention the intent of this trip, besides seeing Central Europe, was to use the rail system, as that is something neither of us have done in Europe outside of the People Mover for me in Venice (whee, a whole 5 minute ride).

I thought the day trips to Salzburg and then via Villach would be pretty and the understanding was we'd be on the train for awhile.

My day trip ideas are coming from the book Europe by Eurail.

As for guidebooks, I wish I could attach pics to these forums - I have 8 different guidebooks - some specifically for Vienna, others for rail, and even more for Central Europe. Plus about 20 tabs open on my browser.

I'm fine with negating Amsterdam. It's not like Europe is going to up-and-move and go anywhere.

PalenQ: I like the idea of staying in Salzburg for 2 nights.

So would this be a better itinerary?

May 14th: Fly from our respective cities to Nuremberg. Settle into hotel. Grab a drink and explore depending on time.
May 15th: Explore Nuremberg
May 16th: Day trip to Rothenberg ob der Tauber
May 17th: Day trip to Neuschwanstein Castle?!
May 18th: Train to Prague. Check into hotel. Explore
May 19th: Prague
May 20th: Prague
May 21st: Prague (day trip somewhere - any ideas?)
May 22nd: Train to Vienna
May 23rd: Explore Viena
May 24th: Explore Vienna
May 25th: Train to Salzburg - Check into hotel
May 26th: The hills are alive with the Sound of Music!! (And Mozart)
May 27th: More Alps!
May 28th: Train to Munich
May 29th: Depart Munich

Without knowing what YOU want to see or experience, I must say that I think you might be giving too little time to Prague, Vienna, and Munich. I wanted nearly double the time you are giving each of these fascinating cities. JMO —your call, of course.

Hi eric,

I think that it's far too far from Nuremberg to do Neuschwanstein in a day trip - it's about 3 hours each way, whether by train to car.

Much better to take a night away from Nuremberg and add it to Munich, which is less than 2 hours from Neuschwanstein; you may decide in the end that there are other things you would prefer to do whilst in Munich but if you want to go there, you'll be a lot closer.

May 18th: Train to Prague. Check into hotel. Explore>

the best way is by bus Nurnberg to Prague - book at www.bahn.de/en

27th maybe do the Neuschwanstein day trip from Munich instead?

Yes better.

Happy to be making progress!!!

So a little history of the trip and why we are looking where we are looking. I've done Northern Europe and the Mediterranean on cruises and was loooking to do something different - something inland. My friend has only been to Paris and when I asked what she would like she recommended Prague and Vienna.

I thought Rothenburg on dear Tauber would be nice as it is a gorgeous town from the pictures I've seen, and thought it would be nice to do some of the "smaller" towns to get that classic European feel, away from the big anchors like Vienna and Prague.

We have 12 days really of sightseeing available. I suppose I could do 4 days in Vienna, 4 days in Prague and then a few days in Salzburg, but then we lose Rothenburg. Of course, if there are other similar cities closer to Prague/Vienna which have that same "charm", I'm ok with that.

Salzburg is pretty much a non-negotiable. I'd hate to be so close to the Alps and miss them.

KJA and PalenQ - thanks for your willingness to help a total stranger.

I suppose Salzburg is on the edge of the Alps, but if I want a city in the Alps in Austria I go to Innsbruck.

It still looks like a forced march to me, but I have my own way of traveling slowly now that I live in Europe and can go all over at little cost whenever I want, so I appreciate the different perspective.

Personally, I loathe Austria and the Austrians, so I wouldn't ever go there again (4 times was more than enough), but I get that it holds a lot of appeal for Americans. I'm really glad they didn't vote in their far-right guy today, but it's still an uptight racist anti-semite country as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't negate their beautiful countryside and cities, of course, but as long as I can pick and choose where I go, they're off the map for me. It's like being in Trump Country when you're on vacation - not even remotely what I want when traveling. I would guess that an American traveler's experience would be completely different, just enjoying the scenery and the horrid Sachertortes.

By contrast, we were absolutely enthralled with our 2 nights in the old center of Bratislava a few weeks ago. What a beautiful, artful, commodious place! Now, there's a place that got over all the WWII stuff and division of country stuff and made the best of it and incorporated the best of the Old World with the New and just carried on and made a new, vibrant life. There's a place that embraced a service economy. There's a place that embraced learning how to cook good food after the communist regime had squashed that. There's a place that wants to be pretty and makes it happen. There's a place that makes you KNOW that most of the world's major musicians studied and played there. There's a place that wants you to come into its churches and places of worship and hear impromptu gorgeous music. We were mesmerised by Bratislava. Its recent emergence on the world globe makes it much more fascinating to me than Vienna, which to me is just an old, old boring used-to-be-famous glam European venue with distinctly unpleasant occupants.

I'm probably of no help at all to you in your vacation plans. I'm just trying to give some "local" perspective, FWIW.

StCirq - Interesting perspective, but I leave politics out of things when I visit. It's easy to get wrapped up in that, but at the end of the day, people are people, and a country should not be viewed by its government but by the people which make it up.

You will always find someone you don't agree with no matter where you go. Our choice, as travelers is to look for the good in everyone no matter where we go.

Same reason I want to go to Cuba; to explore, to open my eyes. But I digress.

It's like being in Trump Country when you're on vacation - not even remotely what I want when traveling.>

Guess you can only go to the two coasts if visiting the States?

Vienna has lots to see and do but you may consider one day trip to the lovely Wachau Valley - take train to Melk, tour famous abbey - hop on a boat on the not-so-blue Danube to say Durnstein -classic wine town with ruined castle hovering above it -take bus to Krens for trains back to Vienna.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wach...HaXGBWkQsAQIHQ

Gorgeous Wachau Valley!

<<at the end of the day, people are people, and a country should not be viewed by its government but by the people which make it up. >>

Totally agree with that, but it's the people of Austria that unnerve me, not their government. I find them cold, rude, bigoted, and unpleasant. As a whole of course. There are no doubt individuals who are pleasant to interact with. The government of a country is elected by the people, BTW.

<i> The government of a country is elected by the people, BTW.</i>

And in the current climate, Austria might look better than France considering Fillon and le Pen as presidential candidates.

Agree on going to Melk Abbey from Vienna via the Danube.
Neunschwanstein: We went a few years ago. The tour was about 20 minutes long and so it was very disappointing. We passed by so many rooms with no explanations given. I'd skip it especially if it will take up so much time to get there and back and wait on line with loads of tour groups.