10-days in Italy/Our first trip/We're not rich! Need tips, info, etc.
 

We live in UK, a happy, healthy married couple in their 50s. Love history and 'connecting the dots'. Like the arts, museums, architecture, good food, walking, soaking up local culture, relaxing.

We've just purchased air tickets (LHR to FCO) for a 10-day stay in Italy in late April. Our first time to Italy.

Will base ourselves in Rome. We don't plan to rent a car.

Below is a rough idea on how we see the 10-days going - but open to suggestions.

Looking for:

- Hotel recommendaitons in Rome. Within walking to lots of sites, functional rather than beautiful, about 4 nights.

- Good/economical Rome guide for local attractions.

- Travel info from Rome to Venice. Assume rail? The early train seems to be the cheapest and would give us most of the day to tour.

- Also looking for Venice hotel/B&B recommendations. For our Venice hotel, we are looking for beauty more than functional - but can't afford expensive! 2 or 3 nights. (Is there enough to do in Venice for 2-3 days?)

- Going back to Rome after Venice (so could try another hotel?)

- Would like to do a day trip to Ostia Antica - is Viator a good company to use for this?

- Would like to do a (long) day trip to Pompeii by minibus (Viator?) but we're after an interesting guide (prefer for just the 2 of us, but aware of cost).

- Any "must do's" appreciated. Other than Venice, Rome, Pompeii, and Ostia Antica, we are open to anything - bearing in mind cost and not having to pack up a suitcase every few days and taking the train somewhere.

- Would prefer to avoid crowds wherever possible. (Yea, I know - ha ha)

- As non-Italian speakers how are English speakers accommodated/treated?

Thank you! In the meantime, we will read the trip reports here.

You're going to love Italy. It chimes perfectly with your interests. And April's a good time to go, for better weather with fewer crowds.

Yes, there's enough to do in Venice for 2 or 3 days. Be sure to stay in Venice proper, not on the mainland or on the Lido. You lose so much of the experience of Venice if you're not there at night. Hotels are expensive in Venice, though. You may need to splurge a little bit. Can you give us a budget per night for hotels?

I wouldn't add to your destinations. You'll find plenty to do in Rome and Venice. And don't worry about communicating. Many Italians speak English, especially in the touristed areas. And everybody is eager to help you.

First - thank you for describing your interests and saying something about your expectations. This makes responding so much easier and enjoyable!

I would stay near Campo dei Fiori for access to the square in the morning and evening and for the ability to walk to many sights. You can always take a bus but I find taxis in Rome to be affordable so you can splurge a bit and save some time.

There's a thread about private guides but usually they are expensive.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...aster-list.cfm

There are a number of good tour companies that offer affordable tours.

http://www.enjoyrome.com/walking/index.html
http://www.romanodyssey.com/
http://www.romewalks.com/
http://www.icontours.com/HOME.html

The train from Rome to Venice is the perfect way to travel. Pack a picnic lunch and relax on the train.

You can easily see Ostia Antica on your own via train. On the way there or back you can stop for 90 minutes at St. Paul Outside the Walls, one of the major basilicas in Rome.

I think you already have enough on your itinerary but you could add Orvieto, a short trip by train from Rome.

The churches in Rome are filled with art, each more glorious than the last one. If you enjoy sculpture and Bernini do visit the Borghese Gallery (reservations required and there is a 2 hour limit inside the museum). You can take the docent led tour in English for a small fee.

Venice is a visual feast every where you turn. I loved the Ca d'Oro museum and the Miracoli church. Also try to visit Torcello and Burano, if there is time.

Not sure you need to do both Ostia Antica and Pompei - I think the easier one would be Ostia Antica. You might do some hotel research on www.venere.com - for both cities you can put in an area, there are reviews and of course price-points. You will have better luck with specific recommendations here if you give us your budget. I'd push the budget for 3 days in Venice - plenty to do. Can you get Rick Steve's guidebooks in the UK - he has lots of moneysaving and practical, logistical info in his books. Enjoy!

If, for money's sake you decide to stay in Venice Mestre ten at least get up early one morning and see the dawn in Venice proper.

Thank you so, so much for your help everyone. Lots of good reading for the next few hours. :-)

Our nightly hotel budget for Venice would be £100-150 - or less if we could get away with it.

For Rome, it would be £100 or less .... by the way, I was just reading about staying at a convent in Rome called Fraterna Domus. What do you think??

First, kind of hate to start with a negative, but wish you had asked before booking flights. You could have done a multi city and flown into Venice and out of Rome for about the same as cost of train to/from Venice to Rome. However, if that can't be changed, it is minor. Just create your itinerary based on the fact that you will need to be back in Rome at the end.

Your flight from England is short, so go directly to Florence or Venice, or even Pompeii area, do all your other travel at the beginning and put all your time in Rome at the end.

English speakers are treated fine. If you can learn a few words like Good morning, Thank you, Excuse me, etc. it will be appreciated.

Train to Venice is easiest and takes you right to Venice Sanata Lucia Station - a beautiful way to enter Venice. Much better to spend two nights in Venice. You will have only part of the first day. It is too far to be an enjoyable day trip from Rome, and people who do it only as a day trip are often unhappy with Venice.

Tours, just my opinion: Many people love tours, but if you buy really good guide books and study even a little bit, you can get do most things on your own and save lots & lots of money. I may enjoy a tour, but find I actually don't remember a lot of what the guides say. You want to save money. That is one way to do it.

Venice: easy to do on your own unless you want a tour of a specific place like Doges' Palace.

Rome: Only had a couple of tours and found I preferred being on my own, so depends on your own desires.

Pompeii: I hate this as a day trip and would not do it as a tour. Many people do it as a day trip from Rome, but I would stay a night or two in Naples or Sorrento. That is personal pref though. With a day trip,you wouldn't have to change hotels. I just hate hours of travel in one day, so don't do it. You can take the train and go to Pompeii on your own. At the entrance, you can hire a very good local guide - much cheaper than doing a whole booked tour from Rome. You could also book a guide ahead to meet you at Pompeii. I've had two tours and once with my own, quite long, written guide. I got much more out of walking and reading, but I had read a lot before hand.

Ostia Antica is also easy to do from Rome. You do not need to take an expensive guided tour.

You like art and architecture.

You might want to include a day in Florence for David, the Duomo and Baptistery and Uffizi. You would probably enjoy two days there, but with only ten days, you have to make choices. If Pompeii is a must, Florence works OK as a day trip from Rome and no checking into and out of hotels.

In Rome, of course the Sistine, but for great sculpture, don't miss the Borghese. It is great also because you must book ahead. It has only two hour time slots. So, no lines or waiting.

Do you actually have 10 days on the ground or does that include arrival and departure days? What time to do you arrive?

You are going from North to South, so consider a cheap flight between Venice and Naples. Do Florence as a day trip from Rome rather than Pompeii as a day trip.

Idea for start of planning:
Day 1 Arrive Rome - train straight to Venice
Day 2 Venice
Day 3 Fly to Naples, bus to Sorrento or stay in Naples and go to museum, or if your flight is very early, go ahead and visit Pompeii.
Day 4 Pompeii (if you didn't go on day 3) & train to Rome
Day 5,7,8,9 Rome (day trip to Ostia Antica)(day trip to Florence)
Day 10 depart

To save money on public transport (vaporetto) in Venice,you can buy a 3 DAY ticket(25 €) which is valid also for Murano,Burano and Lido.(Standard fare is 6€ one way)
The following link may help you planning Venice sightseeing
http://www.venicewelcome.com/actv/vaporetto.htm

<< in Venice,you can buy a 3 DAY ticket(25 €) >>

It's not a 3 day ticket, it's a 72 hour ticket which makes a difference. The price is E35.

Sorry but in order not to give wrong info,I have checked it from this website.
http://www.venicewelcome.com/actv/vaporetto.htm

I highly recommend the Bed and Breakfast Association of Rome for accomodations. As you say, you are looking for "functional". We used their services for a four day stay in Rome after a cruise, and were highly impressed with them. Their home page is here:

http://www.b-b.rm.it/index.php

Yes,Adrienne you are right.Sorry for the wrong info. I've checked it again-72 hours 35€.Still cheap when compared to the 6€ ticket each time,isn't it?:)

As to the hotels,we stayed at Ca Centopietre(Venice) in August 2011 and it was a mid-range central hotel.The owner Marco was very hospitable and the hotel was very clean.
http://www.centopietre.net/en/

In Rome,Hotel Serena,Hotel Assisi and Hotel Marconi are the ones we tried and found clean,safe and comfortable.
You'd better try finding a hotel using the www.booking.com
have a nice time in Italy :)

Mimar, thank you for the suggestion of staying in Venice proper.

A friend has recommended the Murano Glass Factory tour. (Too touristy??) We love the glass works of the American Dale Chihuly, so thinking that maybe Murano would be enjoyable.

We have been to Italy three times. We are not rich. My wife scours the internet for good deals on nice places. Look on my website for my write-ups. It includes where we stayed, things we did and suggestions. -

http://www.rimerson.com/

Rob

Adrienne, thank you for your detailed suggestions - I especially love the one about packing a picnic lunch for the train!

You said:

"You can easily see Ostia Antica on your own via train. On the way there or back you can stop for 90 minutes at St. Paul Outside the Walls, one of the major basilicas in Rome."

1) Can you walk from the train station in Ostia to the site itself?

2) Is 'St. Paul Outside the Walls' the name of the stop on the train line?

suec1 Thank you for your reply, the link, and yes, I actually just received Rick Steves' ITALY 2012 yesterday from Amazon. I love his travel style.

Seeing that our Venice hotel budget is £100-150/night, we are now looking at convents as a possible alternative. But Rick has some great suggestions in his book, as well.

Thanks again.

bilboburgler: The ONLY time I enjoy rising early is when on holiday, so will definitely catch that Venice sunrise! Thanks for your reply.

Hi Denise,

I second the idea of going straight from Rome to Venice though it does rather depend on what time your flight lands at Fiumicino; if it's quite late, you might like just to go to Florence on your arrival day, and make that your first stop.

to know how many nights you should spend where, we really need to know what time you are supposed to land in Rome, how many nights you have in Italy, and what time your flight leaves on the last day.

The shorter the time you have, the more these details matter!

1) Can you walk from the train station in Ostia to the site itself? Yes. Use the station named "Ostia Antica" for the ruins. There are other "Ostia" stations for the modern town.

2) Is 'St. Paul Outside the Walls' the name of the stop on the train line? Yes, but in Italian: Basilica S. Paolo

Sassafrass...I know, I know about the flights thing! You are so right. I am the one who always plans our trips, itineraries, etc., but for some reason Mr. Tealover has decided to play tour operator this time and he booked flights before we had really discussed exact plans. Sigh.

Like your idea very much of taking the train up to Venice on Day 1. (We arrive on Wed 24 Apr Day 1 and depart on Sat 4 May)

You said:

"Day 3 Fly to Naples, bus to Sorrento or stay in Naples and go to museum, or if your flight is very early, go ahead and visit Pompeii.

Day 4 Pompeii (if you didn't go on day 3) & train to Rome"


Naples nor Sorrento were on our radar. Other than the Pompeii connection (figuratively/literally) which one would you recommend over the other - and why?

And finally, if daytripping to Florence from Rome, is Florence easy to get about from the train station?

Thank you!

senozkadir Thank you for your reply, tips, link - and especially the hotel recommendations.

Nikkei Thanks for the B&B link. We like B&B's very much.

Wow, Rob - you guys have done some travelling! Thanks for the link to your blog. Will enjoy having a nosey around there. :-)

Hi there annhig You are so right: it's all in the details, isn't it? :-)

Our plane arrives in Rome around 10.30am on 24 Apr and we leave Rome on 04 May about 7.00pm.

Could you help with the logistics of getting from the airport to the train station and where/how to eat in between that time?

We have traveled a bit (not much, mostly locally; or cruises) but NEVER anything like this: multiple hotels; dragging luggage around; etc. It will be a new experience!

Thank you very much, ellenem x

The main train station in Florence (Firenze SMN) is right in the center, very walkable for most of what you would want to see on your day trip. Here's a repost about a one-day visit to Florence I made a few years ago.

---
On a quick 5-day trip to Rome with Italy novices, I took them on a day trip to Florence. It was one of their favorite days. These friends appreciate art, but don't know much about it, nor did they express any special interests in particular sights. Our trip was during Thanksgiving weekend—late November. I planned the day this way for our group of 5 adults.

We got a train at about 9 AM which put us in Florence by about 10:30AM.

From the station, we took the #12 bus to Piazzale Michelangelo. Therefore, our group's first real view of Florence was from this famous scenic overlook. Loads of photo opportunities, ooohs and aaahs. (If our group had been smaller, I would have opted for a taxi. Even so, a taxi might have been a good idea, since the bus skirts the center of the city and took 30 minutes to reach the piazzale.) Having just spent 3 days in the city of Rome, the group also appreciated the views of the green hills and houses on the hillside nearby and the different style of architecture than that of Modern and Baroque Rome.

From there we went into the city, walking down the steep Via di San Salvatore al Monte, a pedestrian-only walk past green gardens. We entered the city at Porta San Niccolo just as the church bells were ringing noon, the fragrance of delicious lunches in the air. We followed the Via San Niccolo through quiet streets (One friend commented that she finally felt like she was in Italy.) to Via Bardi, eventually turning onto the busy Ponte Vecchio, decorated for Christmas.

From there we walked through town past Piazza della Signoria all the way to the Duomo, which took my friends totally by surprise. This seemed a good moment to stop for lunch, so we had a lovely lunch at Osteria Belle Donne.

After lunch we strolled back through Piazza della Repubblica and then visited the Duomo and the Baptistery. My friends really enjoyed the mosaics inside the Baptistery, spending a lot of time sitting and interpreting the stories depicted. I'm sure we stopped for coffee once or twice during the day since this group became quick converts to the Italian system of coffee—a quick shot at the bar and then on your way.

Then we went to the San Lorenzo markets, splitting off into smaller groups to explore the wares and setting a meeting place and time. I knew my friends would enjoy this market, especially since there is no equivalent in Rome. At the meeting time, 3 were content with their shopping while 2 were still looking for leather jackets, so I indicated a nearby coffee bar where we 3 would wait while they finished. We sat for at least an hour, enjoying our thick hot chocolates and watching the buzz of the busy bar.

With the group together again, it was just after 5 PM, so I thought it couldn't hurt to see how the line was at the Accademia. There was no line, so we walked right in and had David to ourselves and about 20 other people. Quite magical.

We shopped a little more and then had dinner at Trattoria Za-Za. Our return train to Rome left at 9 PM and arrived at about 10:30 PM. They loved this day, which was balanced with a short "hike", beautiful scenery, historic sights, shopping, relaxing in a cafe, and two good meals.

From Rome Fiumicino Airport,you'd better take Leonardo Express to Roma Termini Station(14 €)(30 min)
In Roma Termini you can eat your lunch before heading to Venice.
http://www.grandistazioni.it/cms/v/i...003f16f90aRCRD

It takes 3 hrs 40 min from Roma Termini to Venezia Santa Lucia
Please check www.trenitalia.com for the price.

BTW,before boarding the train, validate your ticket at a yellow stamping machine on or near the station platform. This is very important, because your ticket isn't valid unless it's stamped.

Hi again Denise,

<<Our plane arrives in Rome around 10.30am on 24 Apr and we leave Rome on 04 May about 7.00pm.

Could you help with the logistics of getting from the airport to the train station and where/how to eat in between that time? >>

this means you have plenty of time to get to from the airport on the "Leonardo express" to the main train station in Rome, called "Termini" and catch your train to Venice. if you are confident about catching a particular train, you could pre-book your tickets hopefully getting some of the cheap tickets that are on offer if you book early.

However you may decide that it's just easier to buy them when you get there so you don't run the risk of missing the train you've booked. You'll find loads of info about this on www.seat61.com. there are also plenty of places at Termini to eat or to buy food to eat on the train if that's what you decide to do.

Try this b&b in Venice http://www.aitagliapietra.com/ it is €100 night and in a great location...we always stay there

You wrote:

>>Would prefer to avoid crowds wherever possible. (Yea, I know - ha ha) <<

There are 2 great strategies for avoiding crowds when touring Italy

1) Pick your sights on the basis of your personal interests, not their fame

You like tea? Go to tea salons in Rome

http://www.buzzinrome.com/2012/02/23...-eternal-city/

or Venice

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/italy/ve...-room-beatrice

Do you like books? Medical studies? Mystery stories? Jazz? Craft beer? Bike riding? Whatever it is, just google for a search string that specifies your interest and add your destination city (i.e., "tea salons Venice Italy"). While everyone else is piling into the glass factory tour, you will be sipping tea and eating pistachio cakes in a secret garden, or watching someone repair musical instruments -- seeing another side of the complexity of Italy and really enjoying yourselves.


2) WALK UPHILL OR UPSTAIRS -- Most crowds of tourists are so exhausted from marching around like robots to the "must-see" sights in their guidebook, that they dread every hill and set of steps they see. But while they are drifting in the direction of the high-priced seats in the cafe in the tourist piazza, you should look for the nearest hill or set of stairs and start walking UP. You will shortly find yourself in a breezy spot, either with a glorious bell tower view or breezy cafe away from the traffic.

ok - here's a possible itinerary adjusted to your arrival and departure dates and times:

24 april: arrive Fiumocino 10.30am. take Leonardo express to Rome Termini. catch train to Venice, arriving at about 4pm.

25 April - Venice. Basilica di San Marco, Secret itineraries tour of the Doge's palace, lunch, Church of the Frari and the scuola di San Rocco. wander down to the Zattere and have a gelato or drink. supper wherever.

26 april - take boat to the islands from the fondamente Nova, stopping off at the church of the Gesuiti to admire the marble curtains en route. Land on Murano [if you're going to do a tour of a glass factory, now is probably the time to do it, but I've never found one that wasn't 5 minutes guff followed by hard sell] or carry onto Burnano [my choice]. then either have a nice wander around and leisurely lunch in the sun, and then get the ferry to Torcello, or immediately take the little ferry over to Torcello and see the Basilica [last renovated about 1000 years ago] and have lunch there, then getting the boat back to Burano. up to you.

on leaving you used to be able to take a boat back to Venice proper that stopped at "Giardino" - if you get off there you can walk back towards San Marco via a lot of little streets and shops where a diminishing number of venitians still live.

27 April - get an early start and go down to the rialto market to see the fish market and other early morning activity. Then back to the hotel and collect your luggage to go to the station to catch your train to ???? - Florence or get the bus to the airport to fly to Naples.

28 April - Florence/Naples

29 April - Florence/Naples

30 april - Florence/Naples

1st May - train to Rome. arrive by midday. check in then do walking tour of centre of Rome - Piazza Navona, Pantheon, Trevi fountain, Spanish steps, etc. etc.

2nd May - Colosseum, Forum, Palatinate, followed by the Capitoline museums and/or San clemente.

3rd May - Scavi tour, St Peter's, then vatican museums.

4th May - early morning visit to the campo dei fiori market, then 10am tickets for the Villa borghese [takes 2 hours on the dot, and because you must pre-book, you know you will have time for this]. lunch, then taxi to Termini to catch the train to Fiumicino. leave by 7pm flight.


i haven't included anything for your time in Naples or Florence but there are plenty of ideas above for you to be going on with.

Hope this helps and that you have a great trip!

By the way, the Beatrice tea room in Venice also runs a budget hotel, so if you like tea at breakfast, it might work well for you

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ho...el-review.html

We stayed at Hotel Marconi in Venice - on the Grand Canal at Rialto Bridge - a fabulous location to explore all of Venice from, and very reasonably priced - check the website, but also look at some of the other online booking sites through Trip Advisor - might be able to get a better deal!

http://www.hotelmarconi.it/eng/index.html

Yes you can walk from the St Paul train station to the church. I can't remember exactly how long it took but it was perhaps 5 minutes. Here's a link to a virtual tour of the church.

http://www.vatican.va/various/basili.../index-en.html

It was good advice to skip Ostia Antica if you were visiting Pompeii - no need to see both on this trip.

Great Florence plan by Ellenem. You would probably enjoy the Uffizi though, if you could work it in.

Love Annhig's itinerary. I would change it only a tiny bit.

Fly to Naples from Venice.
Cut a day/night from Naples/Sorrento and add it to Rome, giving you an extra day in Rome to do a day trip to Florence.

April 24 arrive - head to Venice
April 25/26 Venice
April 27 Fly to Naples - train to Sorrento
April 28 boat down the AC - view Positano from the water. Get off and walk around Amalfi. Bus (or ferry) back to Sorrento.
April 29 visit Pompeii (stash your luggage in storage there) and go on to Rome by train that evening - saves time returning to Sorrento and you have a whole day in Rome the next day.
April 30 Rome
May 1 Rome
May 2 Day trip to Florence
May 3 Rome
May 4 Rome and depart

Personally, I would skip Murano, but I did love Burano. Venice has so much to offer, I wouldn't do either, unless it was a perfect and warm day - you never know for sure in April. You can wait until you are there to decide. There is also Paduva and Vicenza for good (and quick and easy) day trips if one day is enough in Venice.

Naples versus Sorrento.
Naples is a busy, gritty, very crowded (not with tourists - with locals) city. However, it has some great museums, excellent food and lovely people. The train to Pompeii is quick and cheap - easy DIY day. You could probably visit a museum or two the first afternoon, leave your luggage at your hotel the next day and catch the train on to Rome that night or just wait until the next morning, so only two nights there.
Sorrento is a smaller, but touristy, town on cliffs with beautiful views. It has easy train access to Pompeii and a lovely small port with great ferry access to the Amalfi Coast so you could see Positano or Amalfi. It will take about an hour to take bus from airport to Sorrento and taxi to a hotel. It would take about a half hour to taxi to hotel in Naples. That becomes a toss up. The only time Naples saves is returning to Rome. It is easier to do the AC from Sorrento.

What to do depends on how much you might like to see any of the museums in Naples. You will already be seeing a lot of musums, but if want that, then stay a third night in Sorrento or Naples.

For your trip, this is what I suggest.
Stay in Sorrento and see the AC instead.
I've tried to balance more intense sight seeing or travel days with mostly walking. Example: put the day trip to Florence in the middle of days in Rome,rather than right after Pompeii and trip to Rome.

What a wonderful trip you are going to have. Italy is just as easy to get around as England. It will start to feel "local" to you after a couple of days.

This is all so helpful and such thoughtful responses. I thank you so very much. I've been reading all afternoon/evening on this laptop and have a splitting headache ! so will have to save my personal Thank You's until tomorrow. But all of this is so very much appreciated!

Some nice hotels in Venice-

http://www.lacalcina.com/

http://www.corte1321.com/en/index.htm

http://www.locanda-sanbarnaba.com/default.htm

http://www.casarezzonico.it/

http://www.pensioneaccademia.it/

http://www.alpontemocenigo.com/en/rooms.htm

http://www.caangeli.it/eng/caangeli.html

Hi Denise, we wre staying in rome in June and we have booked at Hotel Sonya which is right near spanish steps and has very good reviews on trip advisor! Very reasonably priced!

Sorry 4got to add, mention Rick Steve's name and you get a discount. Pay in cash and you get another discount! Worth checking out!

Hi again everyone. I'm trying to read, research - and cook Sunday lunch all at once. I'm so talented! ha!

Working with a small budget, wanting value for money, and searching for a double ensuite room w/canal views, we have narrowed down our Venice hotel options to:

1. http://www.hotelgalleria.it
2. http://www.hotelriva.it
3. http://www.hotelcavendramin.it (if neither of the above pan out)

At first, we were talking about staying in Venice for 3 nights, but we've also narrowed that down, now, to 2 nights after reading about an onslaught of cruise ships arriving in Venice on that third day!

I wish my husband had not booked our flights for a 10-day trip. He really didn't think it through and we probably could have ended up doing more things of greater quality over, for example, 6 or 7 days, than fewer things on a shoestring over 10 days, but what's done is done and I dare not say anthing to him as he is so excited about the trip (as I am).

So anyway...one more question before I move on to more Thank You's.

Question: Is the savings worthwhile by pre-booking train tickets (i.e., the Rome-to-Venice train) or negligible compared to buying our tickets on the day we arrive? As annhig said, one does run the risk of missing a booked train.