Veendam is horrible
 

Here is a copy of a letter we sent to Holland America about the horrible experience we had March 2008 on the Veendam. This letter only discusses the ship ... it does not discuss the horrible experience we had in Cozumel ... We asked that we be compensated for at least half the $1,784.76 we paid in advance and in good faith. We did hear back from Holland America and they offered us an upgrade if we buy another trip .... how gracious — not!

When we embarked on our cruise on March 9, we were shocked to find our room filthy and in a state of total disrepair. When we booked our cruise in January, we initially wanted to be on a higher deck but were told that none of the rooms were available. We agreed to a room on the lowest level because the Holland America agent assured us it would be just as nice as any other, we would be able to have a double bed, and that the room would be placed in the middle of the ship. Based upon the company’s reputation and the website, we believed we had little to be concerned about.

We entered the room, which was located at the farthest end of the ship (the second room from the end) to discover two single beds, sticky goo on the nightstand and dresser surfaces, dirty walls, a sticky/dirty temperature control knob, stained and dirty carpet, and a dirty bathroom counter, mirror, and medicine cabinet. It took two different trips and a telephone call to the front desk for the room to be properly cleaned and the beds put together. We resigned ourselves to the room’s location.

(We enclosed photographs, which showed the condition of the furniture — it was so bad it would not be accepted for donation by a charitable organization.) It is inexcusable to ask your guests to spend a week in a room with chipped furniture, scratched walls with holes in them, and stained carpet. The temperature in the room was hard to control and fluctuated from being too hot to being too cold.

With the exception of our hard-working and attentive cabin steward, none of the ship’s executive staff bothered to follow up and assure that our grievances had been resolved.

Nowhere in the literature we reviewed about the cruise line or on the website did it say we would have to endure such a nightmare. Your promotional materials assure quite the opposite. Holland America honored none of the promises made by the agent who sold us the trip, the promotional materials, or the contract.

The condition of our room made what should have been a relaxing enjoyable holiday a very stressful experience that we would have done anything to avoid. Like so many, we had a choice of which cruise-line to sail and based upon positive comments at some of the travel web sites we chose Holland America.

Sorry about your terrible experience. That's why we prefer to sail with Celebrity.

wow...that sounds terrible.
Was this your first trip w/HAL?

I've been on alot of their ships
and have never experienced anything
anywhere near this!

you might want to peruse cruisecritic.com board & post there.

I am sure that there is another side to this story that we will never heard. And I suppose Holland Am was responsible for the bad experience in Cozumel.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I agree with fmpden in that we will probably never hear both sides of the story and as this ship rates a member review of 5 on cruise critic then this experience as described is all the more enigmatic to understand.

I also agree with "both sides of the story". We have been cruising with HAL since 1985 and have never had such a problem. If we ever had any kind of problem we went to the purser's office and reported it. They took care of it right away - but as far as a filthy cabin - just has never happend.

I also find this difficult to believe and would like to hear more. NJgal do you plan to post review in CruiseCritic with photos etc to back this up?

"We agreed to a room on the lowest level because the Holland America agent assured us it would be just as nice as any other, we would be able to have a double bed, and that the room would be placed in the middle of the ship."

- how did you make the reservation? HA agent - is this a travel agent acting on behalf of the cruise line?

Did you know the cabin number before making this reservation, and saw where on the deck plan the cabin is located before you've agreed to pay for it?

As the cabin's location is very important for me (motion sickness) I always see the location before committing, it seems from your letter you only relied on "reputation" without checking the location.

Or was it a "guaranteed" cabin with upgrade? Judging by the price it might be.

FainaAgain, that is exactly the same questions I had. When I am booking a cruise I am always looking at the floor plan because I like that center of ship room. We have taken the "guaranteed" cabin a couple of times and have always had a cabin assignment a couple weeks prior to departure. Something else is a miss here. Also noticed NJgal hasn't posted in over three years so I am guessing the post is to put as much pressure on Am Holland as possible.

I know it is Holland Am -- just typing too fast.

That is why we never book a guarantee. I always choose my cabin ahead of time - mid ship main deck. I have been on too many rough seas to chance any other location. Had one bad experience years ago. People believe that going up one deck is an upgrade but not if it is in the bow or stern. I have my Mid ship main deck cabin all picked out and paid for on the next adventure 27 day back to back Med cruise next summer.

Holland America discounted our cruisefare tremendously, but put us in the first cabin, right by the embark/debark stand. We would constantly hear the beep of the cruisecards being inserted. I don't have a lot of patience, but I did grow used to it in time.

Now, we ALWAYS choose the cabin we want. We don't want an upgrade, either. We have had those, but had to listen to chairs scraping from the pool deck above. Having a mini suite upgrade was NOT worth it.

Maybe HA had a new steward on that floor. I sympathize. We once were on a cruise where we had a moldy shower curtain, that never got changed. Turned us off of Cunard, that's for sure.

I like HA, but I believe anything can happen.

Isn't it ironic that the person who saves all year for a special vacation is discredited and discounted over a big corporation. But, I will answer everyone's questions. While it may appear I'm trying to put "as much pressure on Am Holland as possible" that no longer makes sense. My husband and I went through all the channels on board, took pictures (which I will post), and then wrote a reasoned letter. This will not change their mind.

I do this with the hope that someone else won't spend their hard-earned money without being forwarned.

I do object to being maligned in this forum as though my story is not to be believed. I wish Holland America would tell their story and explain the deplorable condition of their ship and the audacity of charging people to live that way. With regards to Cozumel ... instead of wondering what bones I have to pick why don't you ask about that experience — the fact that the ship tendered late and took 2-plus hours to tender so that by the time we all got to our activities it was time to return to the ship.

To the person who finds this difficult to believe, please tell me why. And explain what you think my motivation is. You want to hear more ... then ask and I'll respond.

I made the reservation directly with Holland America. I was told I would be assigned a cabin later (which should have been a clue). I asked for a guarantee, and was not given one.

I've sailed on Celebrity before with great pleasure and am well traveled beyond cruising. This trip was not at all what it was presented to be. My intent in posting was to prevent my experience from happening to someone else. I hope it does just that.

NJgal, I am sorry, but it seems to me, your expectations were too high.

When I made reservations I picked a cabin, and knew the cabin number right away, even before typing in my credit card number - before my very first cruise a year ago. Sorry you haven't done the same.

Please don't take on the attitude of "I've been saving all year, and you don't". I can go on for hours how I save all year, being a poor emigrant with bad English, working a low-paid job.

Sorry all this had happen to you, but it looks like you haven't done your homework.

As for being tendered late... if you read CruiseCritic's reports, mentioned often on Fodor's, it happens often. Especially in bad weather. No port stops are guaranteed, and no hours are guaranteed. Ocean is an unpredictable boss.

I agree that a filthy room is unacceptable and you are right in asking for a partial refund. I hope you reduced the amount of tips as the room attendant did not do a good job, and files a complained right there on the ship.

I hope this won't stop you from enjoying cruises in the future.

First of all thank you for the post to begin with. Why is this hard to believe? You told your side but we have never get to hear the other side. As the Veendam has excellent reviews on cruise critic from around 80 passengers who choose to post a review and as HAL is so widely well regarded why would your story HAVE to be believed? Of course there will be at least SOME doubts and you can't assume most here will believe you. It has nothing to do with one saving for a yr. vs. a mega-rich corporation. It really isn't like its poor little old me vs. huge, cold and uncaring HAL. Its your word here only. If you have the pics lets see them.
I agree with the above about being sure you get a speciifc cabin assignment. This is what most people do. Do try cruising again but go through an experienced TA who will not only be your guide but also will get a better price too than booking with the cruise co. itself. You did say the room was cleaned and the beds were arranged to your liking so I don't see how you are justified in asking for > 50% your cruise. Sorry it just doesn't add up. I mean you used the ships facilities, had your meals, had the opportunity for entertainment every day and night and so on. We spent a good hunk of $$ two yrs. ago for a Tahitian cruise but couldn't tender into one of the islands due to high seas. Thas bad luck and not anyones fault. JM2C.

I'll be happy to share my pictures if someone will tell me where to post them and how. My complaint is about the cabin and its deplorable condition. Anything else I mentioned on the list was an error on my part in that it took away from the real problem.

Just post a link.

Where does one link to for photographs? I don't have a website.

Can you put the pics online, like in photobucket or Kodak? You don't need a personal web site, just a hosting site.

Here are a few photos from the room.
http://photobucket.com/cruise

You're kidding ??? This is what the fuss is all about ?? Where is the stained and dirty carpet? HoleS in the wall. If I cannot put my fist in it, it is not much of a hole. I assume the pictures were extensively cropped to exaggerate the damage but it still doesn't look very severe. The room has had some wear and tear but nothing effects functionality.

When this post started it sounded over the top -- VEENDAM IS HORRIBLE. I expect some comments about the pool, the dinning room, food service that would support such a blanket statement. Then holes in the walls, filthy room in total disrepair, etc. and I expected a room trashed by a bunch of teenages. Now we are seeing a room with a few nicks and bumps. IMO, you trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. It just doesn't compute.

If the room was truly unclean, then that is unexcusable BUT easily corrected in about an hour and you seemed to imply that your hard working cabin steward did a good job. But complaining about a torn towel? I sure it was replaced the next day or within the hour if you asked.

I believe you in the sense that it is your perception of the turth. I not sure I would have shared the same perception. I have never counted or looked for the nicks and chips in my rooms.

We have done about 60 days of cruising, 20 with Holland Am, and there has always been little problems but it depends on you ability to roll with the situation.

Don't know your prior travel experience but this doesn't rise to the level of demanding half you money back. I have the feeling that Holland Am would be just as happy if you didn't cruise with them in the future.

I think an upgrade which for two is a nice hunk of change to be generous considering the evidence you gave. Sorry but >50% for this just doesn't compute. Again, JM2C.

I see this kind of wear and tear in almost every hotel room or cruise cabin I have ever stayed in.
I sure would never call this horrible disrepair it is just normal wear. Do you expect cabins to completely replace chipped furniture every time it gets damaged? And a ripped towel can be replaced right away.
I can understand dirty but not just wear and tear.

Ripped towel? The cabin steward made a caterpillar for your enjoyment, as they always do, out of spear towels, and he deared to pick a towel not up to your standards? I've noticed you don't complain on the quality of your bath towels in the restroom area.

Chipped furniture - how many hotels can say they don't have any? Why do you expect anything ideal with customers changing every week or so? Your complains would be valid if the cabin would be dirty, it simply looks, as I said, your expectations were too high.

Oppsss I meant "he dared to pick" Sorry :)

I can’t believe that the pictures you posted are what you are upset about. I didn’t see any of the filthy conditions you complained about. First of all – lesson learned for you – be sure you book a cabin that is in the location you want. Of course mid ship cabins are in a higher price category so don’t expect to get the lowest advertised price and get a prime area for your cabin.
The cabin had some wear and tear – to be expected you were not on one of the exclusive high priced ships that would cost you at least 4 or 5 times what you paid. I see that you expected ½ of your money back – looks like you paid less than $900 each taxes included. You couldn’t get a hotel room of the quality you would expect for that money let alone having 3 meals a day, entertainment and the experience of visiting new ports. I have stayed in $300/night hotel rooms that showed wear and tear but as long as the room is clean I would never complain. That’s life and that’s travel. If you are going to cruise again be prepared to pay a lot more for the accommodation you are expecting and understand that weather inunpredictable so ports can be cancelled. Its for your own safety – you should understand that.

FainaAgain -- SHARP EYE -- good catch. You are correct, it is one of the towel animals. Didn't see that. And I am sure that towel was chosen for the ratty end. It fits. This has to be NJgal's first cruise. Too bad.

LOL when I saw a towel animal the first night on my first cruise, I immediately went to the bathroom to see how many towels left. It was such a relief to see "my" towels are not used for that!

And on NJ's picture you can see, it's not a towel hanging on a rack, it's a neatly folded towel laying on a blanket on a bed.

My complaint was different: the animal was wearing MY spare glasses which I kept in a CLOSED glass case, like a box with a lid. The steward opened my case! Was it his business to do that? The cruise company only thanked me for letting them know :)

I laughed when I saw the picture of the caterpillar and wondered what NJgal would have thought if it was the monkey towel hanging above the bed!!!

NJgal, sorry about your disappointment. We each have our own standards. You have the right to be upset when your's are not met.

In some ways, IMO, HAL is a nice line. However, it is a mass market cruiseline, not luxury. So it is possible to experience many disappointing issues with them.

DH & I have many cruises with HAL & other mass market lines. We have had good cruises with HAL & one (our last) horrible cruise with HAL. The problem seems to be their "old" ships - yours was the Veendam, ours was the Maasdam. Our toilet became non-functioning so often & for so long that at one point we went 24 hours without one. I could not get the front desk staff to assist, other than saying a message has been left with maintenance. It finally got resolved towards the end of our cruise because we attended the Captains talk in the theater. Luckily I got the microphone & asked if he could possibly find anyone on the ship who would fix our toilet! It got fixed immediately. We did not get any sorrys or benefits from the Captain or from HAL. That's why we won't cruise with them again. Not because of the toilet, but because of the lack of customer service.

When I gave my report on cruisecritic, I was told that "sh_p happens"!

Hope your future trips are more pleasing for you.

Dear JulieAgain ... Thank you for your kind response ... My experience of posting has left me feeling beaten down ... I will likely never post again ...

Oh, you had a run in with the Fodor Nazis and bullies. Stay away from the Lounge in that case. They're brutal over there, especially if you don't agree with them.

I agree NJgal -- you should have expected more.

NJgal, please do post again. I'm sure in your travels you will have vital info to share with those of us who are truly interested. IMO what you have learned is what many of us have learned on many travel message boards. Use them for getting information important to you - they are wonderful for that.

If/when you share your viewpoints, be very specific about the fact that these are YOUR viewpoints, you have a right to them because your money paid for the trip, & those who don't agree, start their own thread! MOST IMPORTANT - then just ignore the posts you don't like & respond to the others. I've tried it & it works for me. You should have read the thread I started about where can we find American food in Italy because we didn't like their food - WOW!! But I was prepared for the irates & just utilialzed the valuable info from those who truly wanted to share info.

See you next time, Julie

NJgal...If you do NOT post again, then "THEY" have won. And Fodors becomes "THEIRS".That is what they want.Not what the editors want.Your opinion is important.It counts.It keeps this a public forum, not private for those who use this and other forums for their own purposes.Like trying to convince the rest of the world they should be editor or Travel and Leisure.Or other travel magazines.Or that they should have their own websites....I say to that, get your own frickin website.Blog your blog, do it and leave me to the information of the public.

BeachBoi, didn't know this was a contest. Who won? Who are they? I thought this was a discussion, pro and cons, evaluation of arguments, presentation of the facts, find the truth, who is being the bully?

Ironically BB slams the supposed "rippers" with rips of his own. Nothing new there. Overall the tone of the replies were civil for the most part though a good dose of dismay was expressed due to the wide disparity between the descriptions given vs. what was actually seen in the pics. Was there some sarcasm? Yes but it sure could have been more. JM2C. Time to move on.

So, if I disagree with the original poster, this makes me a bully? Oh, well... I'm still coming back with my cruise report, bully me all you want in return :))

I'll be on Princess June 6-16.

So close; that's exciting, Faina. Enjoy!

I have been trying to stay away from this "discussion" but here is my 2 cents worth.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. No one ever wins if there is no discussions. Everyone loses if NJgal does not post again as we would have lost another point of view. By the way, perception is reality. If NJGal's perception is teh ship has poor maintenance, then to her, it is poor maintenance. It doesn't really matters what everyone else thinks or what the truth is.

We all have our perceptions and to us, that perception is real. How often we have felt that we were mistreated by someone (spouse, boss, parents, friends etc) and after the fact, we realiaed that we were not? But at the time, our perception is that we are being mistreated and to us, that was real.

Our perception is that the crusie lines are charging a fuel surcharge to make more money and gouge us. It doesn't matter when a barrel of oil was less than $65 when they set the price of the cruise and the oil is at almost $130 a barrel and still rising. Well, that's not our problem and the cruise lines should lose money becasue they did not gaze into their crystal ball and guess the right oil future price.

To us, that perception is reality. The cruise line is "nichol and dime-ing" us to death. What used to be free are now extra cost items. Our perception is gouging. The fact is the are just trying to stay afloat. No pun intended. If you don't believe me, just look at how the airline industry has chanegd since 911.

Back to NJGal's complaints. Based on the pictures, and some of the descriptions, I would say there are grounds for a legitimate complaint. Even for a mass market ship, they have to do better maintenance. The least they could have done is to fix the damaged trims to the furniture. Who will have to pay for the damaged expensive suits and evening gowns that ripped becasue of the poor reapir state of the furniture? Those suits and gowns can cost thousands of dollars.

You know what is my biggest pet pees for hotels? (and cruise ships too) It is the plugged, slow draining, bath tubs or shower stalls. There is nothing worst than taking a shower and standing in a pool of water not draining.

The usual cause for the plugged drain is hair and it is yucky. I would say at least 30% of the hotels (even the high end ones) has slow draining problems becasue the staff does not clean the clogged drains.

My solution? Carry a pair of surgical tweezers and disposal latex gloves and unclogged it myself. I would put the glob of hair in a water glass (complete with some water for effect) and take it down to the front desk and ask politely to see the manager.

Usually, you will get some startled looks, followed by an apology, and soemtimes, something complimentary. By the way, I sanitize my tweezers with the in room coffeemaker's hot boiling water after the deed.

So, NJGal, keep posting as your opinion is valuable. We all lose if you stop posting. By the way, if you do get a refund, good for you. If not, that's real life.

If we have a disagreement over an issue and the other party leaves because of it its not our loss IMHO. Its their choice so just move on. I would like to see NJ back but its really up to her. I can't control her behavior so for me its not my loss really. Maybe its hers. JM2C.