Per xman ([email protected]) <BR>Date: 8/17/2001, 8:51 am ET <BR> <BR>...."They insinuate that everything is taken care on a cruise. There seems to be more hidden costs than can be imagined. Yes, the seasoned cruiser seems to know all this, bit what about the first timer, that doesn't know the right questions to ask. Their brochures do not point any of this out. It's almost like buying a car. Lots of research, and you always feel like you got slighted"...... <BR> <BR>It sounds like this man is advocating the use of omg!! Travel Agents...Paul can you help him?????

<BR>Mr. xman: <BR> <BR>This thread is concerning tipping, not hidden costs. <BR> <BR>If you wish to know what is costs for ice-cream on Princess ask your travel agent. Also what it cost for each alternative restaurant. Also what it will cost for visas if it is not supplied by the cruise-line. <BR> <BR>If your travel agent does not know the particular ship you are sailing, get a new agent. <BR> <BR>Travel agents are not out to gyp you or they would have no repeat customers. It stands to reason. <BR> <BR>Simply stated: If you do not like the cruise-line policies do not cruise. Period. You do not have to get all bent out of shape. <BR> <BR>Paul <BR> <BR>

To Tom & Paul. I am not getting, "bent out of shape". I am simply stating the obvious. The cruise lines will do what retail stores have been doing for ages. They suck you into their establishment with a low advertised pricing, and then tack on costs to make up for the difference. It's almost like accessorizing someone. When you pretend to present one set of pricing and then later use another it is a loss leader system. So you tell me why people dislike retail outlets or other sales establishments doing it to them, but it's ok for a cruise line to do it? <BR> <BR>Forced tipping is all part of this issue. The cruise lines now do not have to put forth as much expense to their employees. You do. If someone does a good job then "I" am happy to reward them. Once you have forced tipping it raises the bar. You now end up tipping beyond 20%if you want to reward the good worker. And the schlep that did nothing is still rewarded. <BR> <BR>This now brings out another issue the schlep does not have any incentive to be a "non-schlep" because he is already being paid extra for his poor service. It is akin to negative reinforcement. <BR> <BR>With that said, now tell me why I shouldn't decide who gets what?

to xxxx.... <BR> <BR>Tipping is a part of the cruising, it always has been. If people choose not to participate...well I just don't know..?? As I understand it you still have full control over the allocation of tips even when they are charged to your account. If you do not want them to charge your account take care of that when you check in at embarkation. <BR> <BR>You have seemed to have changed the emphasis of your objection to the incentive aspect of the charged tipping system. I think those comment cards that are tied directly to the tip adjustments, the pressure from other tipped staff that are in the tip pool, the chance for additional cash tips from guests are the incentives to provide excellent service. <BR> <BR>Additionally, these people do take pride in their work. They are professionals. Who knows they may be bucking for that promotion also. Don't you think they will do a good job, or do you think people are innately lazy and trying to get by on the least effort etc...

Tom: You are REALLY missing it. One more time..... Tipping is between ME and the PERSON serving ME. It's none of the cruise lines business. PERIOD!!!!

Sally, <BR>It is the cruise lines business to provide an environment that is a win-win-win situation for guests, employees and the line...better tipping system equals better service because they are able to attract the best people...it is not a zero sum game where some one loses (passenger vs. employee vs. cruise line)..it is a reality that cruise lines must pay (or have a system where) the servers (earn) enough to attract the quality people from the various ship chandlers. It really doesn't matter if its called a "tip", charge or salary, it is a part of the equation. You can't get something for nothing. Costs are costs and a cost of doing business is a reasonable profit. Business does not work when one party is always getting short changed. I think it is all interelated...

Bravo Sally !!! Tom if you are so behind "the bottom line" why don't you lobby to have the cruise line pay more in monthly salary? Tipping is a reward PERIOD. I'll be damned if i would tip someone I never saw! P.S. some of you sound like you work on a cruise ship?? A little defensive are we??

Jodi, <BR> <BR>My point exactly, the bottom line is the bottom line...these monies are a cost of cruising no matter what you call it...tip, increased salary (lines would raise the prices), charge etc...you still have full control over it...from my previous post... <BR> <BR>"As I understand it you still have full control over the allocation of tips even when they are charged to your account. If you do not want them to charge your account take care of that when you check in at embarkation." <BR> <BR>Tip who you want to tip but don't kid yourselves into thinking you are not paying or won't be paying the server/steward etc. full salary one way or another...by the way, just because you don't see someone doesn't mean they are not serving you... <BR> <BR>

Tom both embarkation and disembarkation are a war zone on RCCL and Carnival. Also, they make it next to impossible for you to do this because you have to fill out aseperate form for all depts and parties concerned. Again ,"Bait and Switch". <BR> <BR>So changing your tipping is not that easy. Eventually they figure you'll give up.

<BR>I beleive you should all give up. No amount of bantering will change the mind of another. <BR> <BR>Paul

paul, <BR>Thank you

You said it. Paul your proof of that.

I was so concerned about this after reading all these posting I asked my TA today about this for my Celebrity cruise this winter. She informed me that I should not allow anyone auto charge tips! She has been on many ships and has never done this. She advised me that is more personal to leave cash in the envelope and if you have a wonderful time leave extra for those who helped make it that way.

Thank you Sue (and your TA). Your TA is much more polite about her comments than I, but it boils down to the basic issue. Control your own funds.