"charged" tipping
 

I know this has been covered before, especially the pros and cons. Are all Carnival ships going this route? In particular, the Inspiration? And I saw that forms had to be filled out?! Why? Can't you just say I want to tip personally without a hassle? Exactly what transpires when you go to the pursers counter to have tips removed from you cruise account? <BR>Thanks!

Elaine: <BR>Here's some info. Yes, all Carnival ships are now doing this. They say it's "for your convienience". I posted a simalar concern and was rebuffed for saying so. Many responses came back about how "tipping is everywhere" "it pays wages in restaurants" "I shouldn't complain since it's been going on for years in hotels, etc. etc." <BR>Anyway, as soon as Carnival activates your "Sign and Sail" card you will be charged for all tips for you cabin steward, wait staff in the main dining, assistance in the casual dining, etc. <BR>If you want to add to or reduce (or totally remove the tip so you can hand it directly to the person ... heaven forbid) you must go to the pursers desk and ask for a form FOR EACH PERSON IN YOUR CABIN. That means if you have two adults in your cabin you must fill out and sign 2 forms and they must all match! Then, you have to go back to the pursers station (to be embaressed again) and place the form(s) in a large container with a big sign on top that says "Place your tip adjustment forms here". <BR>If you're going to do this it's best to stop by and pick up the forms during off hours like after the late show, etc. or you'll stand in long lines. <BR>Anyway, to be fair, most lines now do something like this, its not just Carnival. And as long as people justify this nonsense it will continue. Tipping should be just that, a reward for extra service, not automatically deduced to pay their underpaid and overworked staff. <BR>Don't let this stop you from enjoying the cruise. I've sailed Carnival many times and always had fun, in spite of issues like this. Sal

Elaine, if what Sal says is correct, I would go right up to the pursers desk and tell them that I am now on vacation and I'm to busy to fill out forms. I would tell to remove that charge at once or I will dispute it as an unauthorized charge when the bill comes to my home. I would also tell them that I will tip the people directly, when and how much, at my convenience.

To the last poster, Good Luck!!! C'mon this is Paul's favorite line. They can do no wrong. If I remember correctly tipping is an added value response. That means that did a better than average job and you want to reward them for their actions. It is not Carnival doesn't pay their employees enough so they defer payments to you. <BR> <BR>What a great system. You notice how difficult they make it for you to remove it. Just one more way for Carnival to show their true colors. <BR> <BR>And to the response everybosy is doing it. You have got to be kidding me. So that makes it okay? When your child comes up and says everybody has the new toy in town do you go out and buy it if they have not merited it (if you do, shame on you). No, you don't. How is this any different. You earn a tip. It's not supposed to be automatic!

BRAVO to Sal, Sid, and XXXXX! I've been shocked to see the posters do what Sal said and defend the lines for this nonsense. Tipping is between me and the person giving the service, no one else! Sal is correct about the process. On our last cruise on the Paradise there were lines that wrapped completely around the atrium of people waiting to get the forms and the pursur desk refused to put them out for people to take...each person had to publicly state that they wanted them. By the way, what Sal didn't mention is that you have to declare on the form why you are changing the tip! Keep up the good comments!

I see..Well, it's our daughter and son-in-law taking their first cruise next month, at our urging. They are a little leery about a cruise anyway and a long line might deter them. But I will tell them my thoughts about this and tell them to get the forms!! I know they are very generous tippers and appreciative of good service and they are aware of the tipping recommendations and have no problem with it. But how can it be called a tip if you can't give it to the recipiant along with a 'thank you'! We've been on several cruises and actually tipped all the mentioned parties a little more, plus the wait staff on deck..the ones that pick up your mess and refill your coffee cup because we saw the same couple of fellows every day and the wine lady on the last night since we'd had a couple of bottles during the trip. I remember some of the (pro)reasoning behind this and couldn't agree less. For one thing, I have never seen the wait staff get stiffed because people stayed away the last night, ours and every other table I saw was full! And if Carnival keeps a portion for themselves (as was also mentioned) for their having collected it, I'm sure the involved parties would much prefer to go back to the old way. Maybe if enough people object, they will stop this nonsensical practice. <BR>If you just state on the form that you would rather give the tips out yourselves, do you get any static? <BR>I appreciate the replies and enjoy reading your responses. Thanks again!

Elaine, Have your ask her travel agent to be sure if this is the policy on the Inspiration before you get too worried about it. Contrary to what Sal said, i don't believe that all of Carnival's ships are doing this. I know that I just checked for some clients on Victory for next Spring and was told that they are NOT one of the ships that is having pre-paid tips. I'm not sure which ones are. The next time I call in I'll ask but that won't be for a few days.

<BR>I was on a Carnival ship two months ago and at that time only two ships had automatic tipping. Last month I was on Ren and they did automaticly place the tip on my acct. And it was higher than Carnivals.

Beth, did you approach Ren about reducing or increasing or re-distributing the tip amounts. The last RCCL cruise gave us the option of putting the tips onto our account or using cash. We liked the idea of putting them on the account, since it was that much less US cash to carry. We are Canadians. We did make a point of telling our servers what we had done and wrote a note to the purser advising that NO tip was to given to the Head Waiter since over a 17 day cruise he never introduced himself to us or even said "Hello". We did instruct the purser to ensure that any monies remainging be allocated to the servers in the alternate dining room. I can't remember the name right now. It was on Legend of the Seas.

This prepaid method is one way for the lines (and it is not limited to Carnival) to spread the risk of the cheapskate nontipper amongst the staff. Amounts charged to your account are pooled and then each tipped employee gets an equal share (depending on their job title); if you want to single out someone, I think extra cash given directly will insure that they get 100% of it and it won't be "pooled". <BR> <BR>Hey, I kinda like it (the charged amount now earns me ff miles). I have never had bad service (always at least adequate), and imo that qualifies for the suggested tip. I will generally tip more to anyone who exceeds the adequate standard.

<BR>The reason why the dining rooms are now full on the last night of the cruise is due to all mass-market cruise lines eliminating alternative restaurant dining for that evening. <BR> <BR>Now those that do not wish to tip can just walk out or sit in their room and order that delicious room service food. <BR> <BR>Paul

Jack Jack Jack, you really aren't that naive are you? It has nothing to do with spreading anything out except less for them to pay out. <BR> <BR>As a large multi- national corporation I want to make sure they get tipped better. They are just trying to offset their fixed costs to their employees. It also helps them to hide the true cost of their cruises to you. They are automatically imposing tips therefore your trip is automatically more than you expected. And now, the employees no longer have an incentive to work for a better tip. Economics 101 is a good place to start. <BR> <BR>Also Paul, make up your mind. I thought the room service was great. By the tone of your comment your saying it's not? Which one is it?

Eliane, most people on the Fodor's site now know to take what Paul Therault says with a grain of salt. He promised, too many times to count, he would abandon this site and go elseware because he ususally aggitates everyone. I urge you to look at other postings in which he always has an opinion. <BR> <BR>As for charged tipping...I hope this will be the last straw for Carnival. If travel agents do their job, they will advise clients of Carnivals new tipping policy and hopefully this will push cruisers to sail on another line. Carnival has a long history of poor service. A previous poster said it best, "where there's smoke, there's fire" and Carnival is blazing. I sailed with Carnival for the last time in 1999. I refused to sign up for the "Sign & Sail' card and paid cash. This eliminated questionable charges that showed up on previous Carnival sign and sail bills. But the sign and sail card may now be mandatory, I don't know. <BR> <BR>It's worth going to your local bookstore and picking up a book on cruises and reading some professional reviews. But read between the lines. Most of those reviews will not publically slam Carnival, but will give you enough information that you can make an educated dicision. <BR> <BR>Happy sailing.

xxxx man, so you don't think you can adjust tips upward?? we can see that you never even considered that!?! You talk about econ 101, don't you consider the suggested tip amount part of the true cost of the trip?? Or do you tip that minimum amount when the staff "walks" on the water, which has not happened yet? <BR> <BR>The incentive to provide excellent service is two fold now! They still have the opportunity to get additional tips directly from passengers (unless they are serving Mr. xxxx) and there will also be an amount of peer pressure since bad service from anyone could affect everyone... <BR> <BR>Its really no problem xxxx, now you have to justify why you are stiffing someone rather than being a coward and doing it anonomously. This is not a Carnival issue, it is a cheapness issue.

Hey Mr. "tipmore@theydeserveit" <BR> "Its really no problem xxxx, now you have to justify why you are stiffing someone rather than being a coward and doing it anonomously. This is not a Carnival issue, it is a cheapness issue." to quote you. Talk about anonimity, Mr.tipmore@theydeserveit. <BR> RIGHTBACKAT YOU. <BR>

Jack can you be any more naive. You are just what the cruise lines ordered. if this is such a great system why do the cruise lines make it near impossible for you to adjust the tops downward if their is a charge that you don't like. <BR> <BR>In my experience they usually want you to show up at 5am on you last leg of the cruise to make any financial adjustments and fill out forms they won't provide you with. The last thing I want to do on my vacation is get up early let alone fill out forms at the butt crack of dawn. <BR> <BR>As far as being frugal. Yes I am, but cheap, no I'm not. If the waiter or staff warrants a tip then I want to decide how much or little they get. <BR> <BR>On my last cruise I did not see the head waiter at all throughout the entire cruise. On the last day of the cruise he was everybody's friend. I'm supposed to tip him. Uh uh. I tipped the waitress that waited on me with exceptional service. <BR> <BR>Also, most places have a pooling system based on a percentage of their employees involvement. The waiters or bartenders have to "tip out" their support team (bus boys, bar backs etc...) This system has worked quite well in the restaurant and bar industry for eons. It supports everyone that did a good job and does not for those that haven't (i.e. my head waiter). <BR> <BR>If you use your system (Carnival and others) then it becomes a domino effect and those truly deserving don't get the compensation they are entitled to and the slackers get rewarded as well. This is now all at your expense. This saves the cruise lines untold amounts of money and now puts the burden of income on to you. <BR>So tell me again how this is such a great system?

Here is what I do now with Carnival, I stop at the pursurs desk on the way back from the midnight buffet, etc. and pick up the forms (no-lines), we fill out and sign the forms and check the box "I prefer to give me tips directly" and have ALL tips removed from our bill. I then discard their "suggested" tipping guidelines and tip people who made our trip special such as waiters in the self serve line, security staff I noticed doing their job well and if the busboy was nicer to us then the waiter, guess what, he gets his tip and the waiters too! This kind of tipping has a GREAT impact on staff. <BR>Suggested guidelines identify staff that you should tip which is nonsense, what about the cooks in the kitchen or people working down in the engine room...without them doing their job you'd really have a bad cruise. <BR>You tip who you want, as much as you want, when and how you want, its none of the cruise lines business. <BR>Finally pooling tips is a crock, the staff that works hard don't get their reward and the staff that are lazy get rewarded for being lazy.

Bottom line here is that forced tipping is a crock. Is it that hard to think on your own who is good or bad? If you have never had to make money on a tipping system don't bother to open your mouth. It's like talking about anything you don't no about. It just sounds like you know nothing about it, Jack! <BR> <BR>If you really don't want to think and travel to far away places the armed forces are always looking for more people. And just think you can stand in line and fill out as many forms as you want at no cost to you!

xxx, ok I agree, forced tipping is a crock when you want to stiff the staff!! <BR> <BR>Why don't you answer my questions? Specifcally, don't you consider the suggested tip amount part of the true cost of the trip?? What is your service threshhold for tipping the suggested amounts? If you have never tipped the suggested amount what is your methodology? Or are you just a taker?

Just got off the Ren 2. They automatically bill $12 per person per day to cover dining staff and stewards. They are clear in letting you know that you can adjust or eliminate this. If you eliminate - simply by asking that they remove it from your account, you will find left on your door, 2 envelopes, 1 for dining staff and 1 for stewards plus a small card to fill out with name, cabin number and amount you are putting in each envelope. Ren also distributes a sheet explaining that none of the monies goes to the company, and that in the case of the Ren 2, 8.50 of the daily $12 goes to the 70 dining staff, maitre d' and assistant maitre d', in a pooled amount, and that the steward gets 3.50 on an individual basis. Frankly, even though I started out intending to adjust the amount, the service by every single staff member I came in contact with was so excellent, I just let it be. So glad to dispense with filling those envelopes and dealing with the extra grovelling I experienced on other cruises in the final days of the cruise.

I think I started something..... <BR>Guess what, I called Carnival and asked about the Inspiration's policy and was told that ship has cash tipping, so my initial inquiry is moot. <BR>I disagree with any implication that objectors to tips being charged are either cheap or intend to "stiff" the staff. Having been a waitress (in my younger years) I know that some people will leave nothing but then there are some that leave a lot more than required and 'usually' it all evens out. And I would for sure rather have taken my chances than have had a restaurant collect it for me and maybe get it or maybe not. I bet Carnival employees would say the same. The definition for tip is "a gift or a sum of money tendered for a SERVICE PERFORMED". It's not a tip if you don't know who is getting what and if you can't reward the specific people who did the most for you during your trip. If Carnival wants to increase their employee wages they should go up on the price of their cruises and leave the tipping system alone!!! <BR>Happy cruising everyone!

Elaine thank you for being more polite than I would have been in answer to Jack's uniformed comments. <BR> <BR>Jack just beacuse I don't feel like having someone automatically TAKE MY MONEY for service that has not even yet been rendered doesn't mean I don't tip. I just like to THINK for myself. I usually tip 20% on the average for a meal, thaT is quite generous, and a minimum of a dollar a drink. <BR> <BR>Now if you insist on being belligerant and unintelligent that's your problem. <BR> <BR>Again, the army is looking for a few good men (they might even except you). And then you won't have to think for yourself at all. They tell you exactly what to do, and they control your money as well. You'd fit right in. <BR> <BR>TIPPING IS NOT A RIGHT! IT'S A REWARD FOR EXCEPTIONAL SERVICE!

The rationale behind for listing a reason why you are adjusting your tip is direct verifiable feedback to management on a staff person's performance. Better than the somewhat unverifiable comment cards some lines use. <BR> <BR>Advantages: <BR>1. It is convenient <BR>2. Get frequent flyer miles because its on my credit card. <BR>3. I get to use the money free for up to a month because of the billing cycle of my credit card. <BR>4. I can still adjust/distribute the amount any way I see fit (ooh independent thought, can I handle it..) No loss of control at all. <BR>5. The incnetive to work hard is still there; additional cash tips are available from passengers, peer pressure from other staff since charged amounts are pooled and bad service which results in stiffing affects all those in the pool; and verifiable feedback on specific staff members when adjusting tips. Has the effect of making service more consistent at a higher level. <BR>6. Risk of non tippers is distributed amongst the staff and a consistent baseline income can be established. This will help attract more and better employees. <BR>7. Less of a hassle handling the cash etc. <BR>Disadvantage: <BR>1. Can't stiff the staff as easily without embarrassment. <BR>2. It is a change in cruise culture. <BR> <BR>By the way, the study of economics is based upon the efficient use/allocation of resources, not the assignment/shifting of costs; that is accounting. I will stand by my argument that the charged system is better for all involved. <BR> <BR>To xxx man; your comments regarding the army are inane; I would be proud to serve my country. Don't quite understand the connection between army and an inability for independent thought. Additionally, your definition regarding that tipping is a reward for exceptional service is incorrect...technically it is a reward FOR service and in the cruise culture we know that staff depends on tips, hopefully not yours. Finally, answer the questions you have avoided; 1) "Don't you consider the suggested tip amount part of the true cost of the trip? <BR>2) "Do you tip the suggested amounts for adequate service?"

Jack you seem to have an unhealthy preoccupation with the stiff issue. <BR> <BR>1. No I don't consider the "suggested" amount part of the trip. Again' it is someone else telling me how to allocate my resources. <BR> <BR>2. As I have already stated no I don't tip the suggested amounts for adequate service. I usually tip beyond that, 20% as opposed to 15%. <BR> <BR>3. Since when was putting money on your credit card free? <BR> <BR>4. According to your comments earlier I thought the pooling system was fallible. <BR> <BR>5. Do you really think management pays attention to how you adjust your tip. And that it has a verifiable result on the personnel's performance. <BR> <BR>6. And finally when it came to the end of the trip I did not tip the head waiter that had not been around the entire voyage the suggested amount, but gave the added amount to the waitress that had really done all the work. She walked away with $50.00 dollars as opposed to the suggested $10 or $15.00. <BR>Why should he be rewarded automatically for a job not done. When she did a job well. Therein lies the flaw of the system. If he was automatically tipped what finacial motivation does he have to do a better job. None. <BR> <BR>And finally, the armed forces until recently did not promote independent thought. Everything is laid out for you as far as policy and protocol. So what part don't you understand.

Truce...Uncle.. <BR>May I suggest the following. <BR>Jack, Carnival told me when I called that even if a ship doesn't automatically charge tips, that you can request this 'service' two weeks in advance. I'm sure any cruise line will do the same. You and others who like this system and it's 'perks' have this option. <BR>xxxxman, I and probably the majority will plod along, bring the cash, stuff the envelopes, say thanks, get a hug or two and go on our merry way. <BR> <BR>Everyone should be happy now!

Since somebodys got to be the gentleman here (handshake! handshake!). Thanks Elaine!

Jack: <BR>You think getting frequent flyer miles is a benefit of tipping? Let's see, your tips for a 7 day cruise might be $150. You get 150 miles credit at 12-18% interest on the $150. EEEEKKK! No wonder you have no problem giving away your money!

Jack I agree with Stan. And since you like throwing your money away I hear dot coms are really good investments. You may talk the talk with finanial lingo but you can't walk the walk. <BR> <BR>I would much rather have my money accrue interest in my benefit rather than the credit card companys. Heck, it's only money right.

xxx and stan, did you ever hear of using the float time on your credit card; paying it off in full at the end of every billing cycle? No interest there, and you get the miles. I guess great economists like you all buy into the credit card debt syndrome...

Bravo, Jack. xxx and Stan just like to hear themselves talk.

You guys might as well give up on Jack. People like him are always right, just ask him he'll tell you. They are know it alls on every subject and authorities on nothing. <BR> <BR>You remember him. He's the guy you avoid conversations with at every cocktail party or social gathering.

All this discussion about tipping brings to mind the days when I was the Manager of Room Service for a luxury hotel. I was always amazed at how poorly guests tipped room service waiters, as opposed to the wait staff in the restaurants. It was as if the customers thought just because it was the dining room, the staff worked harder. Hah! Everything is preset in a dining room, so the waiter takes the order, gives it to the kitchen, brings the order to the table, and then periodically checks water, wine, bread, etc., then gets tipped 15-20%. The room service waiter, gets the order, has to set up the room service cart, heat the hot box, give the order to the kitchen, check to make sure everything is as requested, including condiments, water, wine, etc., then find an available elevator, haul the cart up many levels, zigzag his/her way down corridors, knock on the door with a "do not disturb" sign inadvertently left on the knob, deal with customers in various degrees of dress and undress, set up the cart or transfer the items to a table, get a signature on the check, and then he/she might receive a dollar or two . . . for "delivering" the food. What a joke. As for tipping in general, my staff fought adding an automatic gratuity to the checks, but when the time came, they realized that the really good waitstaff would still get tipped for the simple fact that they were good. Therefore, automatic gratuities took care of the problems with poorly tipping customers, but still allowed the really good staff to earn extra. Sorry, folks, just venting, I guess.

Sometimes I think you guys don't really cruise that often or simply don't pay much attention. You keep harping about Carnival but there are other lines with automatic tipping. <BR> <BR>All NCL ships. <BR> <BR>All Princess ships have auto tipping, $6.50 per person a day for waitstaff(waiter, assist., and Maitre D). Doesn't matter if you choose traditional or personal choice dining. I know because I just got off the Sun Princess. You still get to tip the cabin steward on your own. <BR> <BR>Rennaissance has auto tipping. <BR> <BR>And eventually the other lines except for HAL will follow suit. They are line sheep ya know.

<BR>This is an interesting thread. If there is that much stress concerning obligatory tipping I know Carnival will not initiate it on all ships and possibly do away with it on the ships where it is now used. They do read the comment cards. <BR> <BR>It was supposed to be iitiated on all ships by the end of the year but I do not see this happening. <BR> <BR>As for me, I asked to have my tips put on my account on the Victory a couple of weeks ago and they said no. I like the idea of not counting money and placing it in envelopes. I then use the envelopes to place a few extra dollars along with the voucher for those that I believe did an outstanding job. <BR> <BR>As for me praising room service. I stated the room service was good I never said the food was good. Heaven's no. Same on all mass-market ships. Just snack food. <BR> <BR>Paul

All the more reason to read between the lines when going on a cruise. They insinuate that everything is taken care on a cruise. There seems to be more hidden costs than can be imagined. Yes, the seasoned cruiser seems to know all this, bit what about the first timer, that doesn't know the right questions to ask. Their brochures do not point any of this out. It's almost like buying a car. Lots of research, and you always feel like you got slighted. Could that be why so many people have it out for Carnival. They promise a Jaguar and deliver an Escort. Yes it works yes it's nice, but it certainly doesn't meet the level of expectation you were promised. <BR> <BR>I am glad to hear that they are actually making some changes, could it be all the bad press? The world will never know.

a tip is a tip and just that! it is not a charge! i am sending the carnival cruise line and email to tell them that also!!!!!

<BR>All charges are stated in the back of the brochures. <BR> <BR>This is when you should decide to sail or not to sail. <BR> <BR>Paul

Paul that is the equivelent of fine print. All information they're not sure will sway you negatively is hidden, oops I mean printed in the back.

<BR>Gee whiz, I did not expect my little tidbit to open up a discussion. <BR> <BR>I just think it is important that passengers that spend thousands on a vaacation should read their brochure and documents before they leave home. Also, the print is not fine, it is all general information and if there are additional questions they should adsdress their travel agent. <BR> <BR>Paul

Here we go again...."They do it at hotels, other cruise lines do it, everyone else does it, etc." Tipping is between ME and the person giving me the service!!! Not Carnival, NCL, Princess or anyone else! Will you people WAKE UP!