Christy,

yes I hope that I can convince my husband to go to Jamaica at some point. The short travel time, good value, and combination of lushness and good beaches is to me the major advantages of Jamaica.

I've been reading with curiousity your take on St. John. That will probably be our next extended Caribbean vacation (I'm thinking of doing a long weekend trip to Punta Cana or the Riviera Maya in the early summer). What was your impression of the Westin on the island? That will probably be where we'd stay just b/c you can get fantastic deals on it on priceline.

Marion- did you ever end up going to Harbour Island? I've noticed that several of the hotels on the island have raised their rates.

Mah,
The Westin looks nice but there beach is manmade so definitely go to other beaches while there.It is also convenient to Cruz Bay and the North Shore beaches..which are beautiful!:)

I would like to stay at Caneel Bay Resort next time we go..it's expensive but has a very nice property with some of the nicest beaches onsite.

I love St John and feel that it has some of the most picture perfect beaches that I have ever seen.

Christie

I would love to stay at Caneel too. A girl that I went to school with went there on her honeymoon and her pictures were unreal. However, at this point in our young lives I am too cheap to pay Caneel prices. If I got a good rate at Westin (and took a jeep to the other beaches) I would probably spend half as much as I'd spend at Caneel (and that would let us take another vacation that year!).

My husband always comments about how when we first started dating (our first year of law school) I used to be so carefree about how much things cost. Not having money in law school was great in the long term b/c I've grown so much more thrifty (he calls it cheap!).

Mah,

Harbour Island is still on my list !

I imagine that you and your husband would love it !


Wantsomesun gives the best information here...but you know that :-)

Have you researched Long Bay Hotel in Antigua ? It is one of EJ's favorites and is always highly rated on Trip Advisor.

The smaller, family owned resorts are my favorites. They offer a completely different feeling. A feeling I think you and your husband would enjoy.

Just some *planning* ideas for you :-)

Marion

Marion,

I have looked at Antigua but it takes SO long to get there from New Orleans. If we had a lot of time to take vacations that wouldn't be a problem. But with work it is hard for us to take off more than 7 days at a time, so Antigua would eat up 2 days travel time.

We actually almost went to Harbour Island (Coral Sands) intead of Turks and Caicos in May. We opted for Turks b/c the Sands had 2 nights free.

I'm always making little dream lists in my head for places we'll travel next. My ideas for next year are: Anguilla (Frangipani), St. John (Westin or Villa), or St. Kitts (Marriott to use points). Those are all undecided.

However there are two trips that happen every year- a long beach weekend in the gulf coast of florida (perdido key), and a girl's trip with my friends from college. i'd like to convince them to do charleston & savannah.

as you can tell, i should spend more time working and less time planning! if i won the lottery tomorrow i would have no problem never working again and leading a life of leisure!

I just want to add to my earlier post.. the reason we in Cayman don't allow street vendors and solicitation is simply cultural... this is turning into an interesting thread about what people want out of travel, but as regards discovering other cultures, hear in Cayman our people are generally quite, conservative and reserved, hence they would not be comfortable with street vendors aggressively hawking their wares, just as we are serious about "no shoes, no shirt, no service signs etc".

Having said all that, personally I love to haggle with street vendors... from Negril to Beersheva (where I did my Xmas shopping in a nomads market many years ago) !

MarionCK: I agree with you to a certain point. Let's be honest now, there are vendors out there who don't take just a "no thank you". Some can be more persistent than others. I think that if someone is not use to that, they won't like dealing with it (it could be that it makes them uncomfortable or they just don't like it, period).
I'm of Caribbean descent and have lived the first 16 years of my life in an African country. Let me tell you something, Caribbean vendors have nothing on African vendors in terms of persistence. So nothing phases me, but I can't expect someone who hasn't had my experience to feel the same way. Case in point, my husband. He's a true born and bred New Yorker. Big guy, no one can scare him, no one can make him uncomfortable (really a teddy bear inside :-) ), but do not get in his face. And he believes if he tells you "no thank you" once, he shouldn't have to repeat himself.
We were in St. Lucia a few years ago and the vendors bugged the heck out of him (I can attest that they were persistent). I had to explain to him that it's sort of a cultural thing and we're on vacation and just chill. My husband is not ignorant, he's not mean, he gets it...this is just his temperament. Those telemarketers you mentioned, the ones who call at home right here in the U.S., they piss him off with their persistence just as much as the persitent vendors in whatever country we are.
All this blablabla on my part :-) to say that vendors are not all wonderful and they're not all awful. At the end of the day, people are different and will react differently to situations for whatever reason (and yes it could be due to fear or ignorance). But I think it's just too easy to put it all in a box.
People should just thoroughly research their vacation. That should dramatically increase their chance of picking the right island for them because it will fit their needs and likes. And we can all be happy :-)
I wish I were going to some (any) sunny beach right now.

Good points and thread, Marion! Especially good to read if you are a first time traveler to the Caribbean. It may help people get the theory that the beach vendors have to make a living too, just like you and I do.

Tom,

I'm not sure this is about what people want in travel. My point was what people should expect in travel.

I'm somewhat sure that even in beautiful Cayman, people might expect to be approached to buy something.

I was just asking people to examine their level of comfort/discomfort with what seems like an ordinary sale of product to me.

Commerce does make the world go 'round...yes ? For those who have traveled in Asian countries, street stalls are common. In the Caribbean the beaches are the public markets. In either locale the consumer has the right to say yes or no.

I guess I'm just tired of reading posts that want PERFECTION in the Caribbean...perfect weather, perfectly crystal, clear water, perfect sand, perfect meals, kids/no kids, and keep the imperfect locals at a distance.

Just think about a Fodor's board for Caribbean residents thinking about coming to this country. What perfection could we provide ?

Worthy of thought...I hope :-)

Marion

Living in the Caribbean myself I can relate to both the necessity and the annoyance of local vendors.

I have bought many things from local vendors over the years and also had many wonderful experiences with them.

On the other hand, however, I have been harrassed by local time share owners to the point of literally being followed in my car and put on the spot.

Either way, I have to admit that a simple, "No thanks...I live here" usually works well for me.

I can see both sides of the coin and I think that every island, and every tourist, has a different way of dealing with the issue. The experience can be either charming or it can get annoying.

Marion: You're the only poster I can think of that can generate 29 responses in no time flat to a very thought-provoking observation about travel. Everyone's replies have been so interesting as well. You know, I seem to read more posts about fears of being harassed than posts about being harassed by vendors.
And how about the posters who are bordering-on-paranoia about the possibility of crime?
And how about the posters who complain about locals' failure to meet their bourgeois expectations of solicitous behavior? I find it so exasperating to read about what basically amounts to a quest for a Hollywood set of the Caribbean.
Oh well, I suppose that's the point of these travel forums... for those of us who have to inform, clarify, encourage and yes, even challenge those who have not had the fortune to travel.
Mah: I've stayed at the Westin several times and it is a very, very comfortable and aesthetically pleasing place to stay. Great beds, terrific airconditioning, great cable TV, basically a wonderful base of operations from which to conduct forays into the rest of the island. The beach there is only okay. We rented a car from O'Connor's which is conveniently located on site and you just park in the Westin parking lot. Very convenient.
Carrybean: Carry on, you hard-worker! I think it's a fascinating concept that in an ethnic community, when an individual excels, he/she is discouraged or even attacked for getting ahead. I had a secretary whose parents would not allow her to accept a full college scholarship because her success threatened her family's and community's sense of cohesion. They thought it was better for her to have three kids by the time she was 24 and slave making a modest living rather than being the C.P.A. she dreamed of becoming because it would propel her into another tax bracket. Hmmmh... cultural limitations placed on economic growth... too late for me to be getting into that one. I'll leave it to Marion to have another brainstorm next Monday. :)

Marion, what amazes me about travelers is that they forget about the ladies that clean their bathroom daily. Part of the pleasure of my traveling, is to get to know a little about the lives of these hard working women. We just stayed at the Marriott on Grand Cayman. I asked "our gal" how many guests leave a tip. Her answer "not many". My thought is "anyone that cleans my toilet deserves a tip".
To me, it is a token of respect. Owa

Tuxedocat: Good *chilly* morning to you. Ready to pack those warm weather duds ? My post was generated by one I read yesterday morning...requesting that Caribbean perfection without local vendors. Rather than replying to that, I thought I'd start a new thread ;-) I am surprised at the number of responses but pleased that people are reacting/thinking. I think a forum like this should be as the word is defined...an exchange of thoughts and ideas :-)

Owa: Welcome home ! I'm with you all the way on respect and learning what life is like for the locals who make our visits so pleasant. Conversation with hard-working locals, can and should be another kind of forum :-)

It's early for me to step down from the proverbial soap box..so I can't make any promises ;-)

Have a good day !

Marion

The only time I was ever upset about vendors was at the famous Dunns River in Jamaica. It was so beautiful. I lost my husband as it was such picture perfect setting and we were both busy snapping away and as I made my way to the parking lot certain that he must have gone back, I was grabbed by every vendor who literally "helped" me into their little area to show me their work. Nice, but VERY persistant and two women vendors started fighting over me. Once I started saying to them that I had lost my husband and had no money on me they left me alone. Being this was my first trip to the Caribbean made a little more impact on me. Vendors have never bothered me again.
I agree, too, Owa, about the cleaning ladies. We have always left our tip on the nightstand every morning when we leave for breakfast. When we were in Kauai (yes, I know it's not in the Caribbean) we stayed at the Hyatt hotel for two weeks and every morning we got a "thank you Mr and Mrs note" from our maid. You may have just explained why. We would never not tip anyone. In fact, we tipped the concierge and he was so surprised that he kissed me! LOL!

In reading this post, I agree with Caribtraveler that it is not always about whether you are well traveled or not. I think it is a personality type. My husband is a salesman for a living. He talks to everybody. He loves to bargain with a vendor. I think he considers that part of vacation. Whether here in the states or another country, my husband will chat with the guy fishing off the dock if he is out on his morning walk. I, on the other hand, do not like the vendors. I hate to haggle and I do not like saying I am not interested a thousand times a day. I hang up on phone solicitors because I tire of explaining why I can't donate to every cause.
Last spring we were in Chinatown in SF and we had a wonderful tour with an elderly chinese woman that grew up there. She told us stories of her childhood. After a week in SF, we spent four of our days wandering through Chinatown enjoying the people, culture, and bargaining for goods(MY kids especially enjoyed this.)We saw the woman who gave us the tour and my girls ran up and hugged her like she was an old friend.
So, in some respects, by experiencing the culture, I agree with Marion that it seems that we are not as afraid of different people and their cultures.
Since, I am now the only "non-bargainer" person of the family, I guess I should park my butt on the Cayman Islands with Tom and enjoy the serenity.:)(Just teasing!!)

I love the vendors! I have been all over the Caribbean and to Negril many times and probably have the world's largest collection of ankle bracelets and wooden carvings. Other than the guys selling drugs, I have always found that a smile and "no thanks" does the trick if I am not interested. And when I have been approached to buy drugs (which is happening less and less these days since I am getting older and a less likely target) I just tell them I am drug tested at work, which always works! I would feel like I have missed out on one of the best parts of my trips by not interacting with the local residents. Those people work very hard for next to nothing and a few dollars a day for trinkets is nothing next to the megabucks I spend on my room, airfare and food. And shame on people that do not tip their housekeepers. You should be doing that everywhere, not just in the Caribbean. In fact, I have started taking an extra bag with me when I visit the islands with inexpensive T-shirts, coloring books, kids clothes, etc. that I distribute after I have had a few cocktails. I always bring our driver a new shirt and the lady that sells the orange juice some lightweight fabric for a dress. I leave our maids lipsticks and perfume samples (with their tip) and small bottles of lotion. I took Sammy Sosa shirts to the Dominican Republic years ago we were the hit of the island for the whole week. They love it and it makes me feel good.