Definitions, please
 

We are going to spend most of April in OZ and are looking forward to our first visit with great anticipation.

But, as with so many other places where so many different terms are used, we are puzzled how some items we see mentioned on this web site are defined.

For example: could you please define the term "milk bar"? This one leaves us scratching our heads. Is it like a delicatessen? What can you buy there? Are they open at night? Do they have toilet facilities for tourists?

Originally (1930s-1940s), milk bars were started up as a place for young people to buy non-alcoholic beverages and hang out, with juke boxes, pinball machines, etc. Over time, they were replaced by fast food restaurants, so now they are more like convenience stores.

That's funny -- I've never thought of it as being different but we don't really have a common similar thing in the states.

To me, a milk bar definitely has ice cream/milk shake connotations.

Think of a small counter-top diner or soda shop. No wait staff. Kind of like a deli but more hot (fried) fast food. A Snack Bar.

A typical milk bar of the time featured a counter and fixed seating (banquette style) down the side. It was usually run by a Greek family who served basic meals like steak n' chips, hamburgers and the like. You can still find these places in country towns, invariably containing a display of heart-endangering deep-fried items. I remember being bemused when on my first visit to NZ a motel owner told us that milk could be bought at a "dairy" down the road. As this was in inner-suburban Christchurch we envisaged a long walk, but soon realised that dairy = milk bar.

Milk bar = soda fountain.

Sodas never really caught on in Australia as they did in the US; probably because milk was plentiful and cheap (government-controlled prices), kids in Australia used to sit and sip at a milk shake, preferably a chocolated malted with double ice-cream. That, of course, was in the days before Coca-Cola dispensing machines with those infernal paper cups! The milk shake was served in the same glasses as the American kids used for their sodas.

Thank you! We will just have to live dangerously and look into "milk bars" to see what is inside.

Once upon a time in America, now long passed I am afraid, recently arrived Greek families (usually) opened and operated what were known as "candy kitchens." More often than not, grapefruit would be piled in small pyramids in the window, accented by stacks of Heinz ketchup bottles. Inside would be a counter with fixed seating and with booths lining both sides in the rear. Opposite the counter would be glass showcases containing hand-dipped, homemade chocolates and sometimes baked goods. The smell of these places was heavenly. Alas, their sons and daughters seldom wanted to keep the grueling hours and hard work these places demanded. The loss was America's. There is a place in a town in Indiana that has preserved one of these glass-and-marble palaces, one of what were once a common fixture across the country. So sad.

Most milk bars (certainly in the capital cities) are now just small owner-operated stores with icecreams, soft drinks, snack foods and milk etc. They do not have toilet facilities. They usually open from around 7am to 9pm - although this can vary widely. Some in country areas would have hot food of the take away variety.

Milk bars in suburban Melbourne have all but disappeared over the years, to be replaced with 24 hour 7/Elevens and Safeways. They were the place we'd go as kids to get milk, bread and, of course, lollies.
Kay

See? My point exactly. What are "lollies"? We have lollipops, sort of hard candy on a stick. Same thing?

USNR, from your last post Iget the feeling you are annoyed by the language differences... You should be enjoying it! :) It is really neat to have so many different words used in the same language alll over the world. Makes it special.

No, quite the opposite. Vive l'difference -- but please do help me understand clearly what others are talking about. As Shaw said, we are two peoples separated by the same language.

USNR, Aussies use the term "lollies" for all candies, whether or not they're perched on sticks.

In casual conversation they sometimes use rhyming slang, like "Brussel Sprouts" instead of "Boy Scouts."

One of the more confusing terms for me when I arrived in Australia was "bench" (in the context of a kitchen). An Australian kitchen bench is the same as a North American kitchen counter. But in every other place I've lived, a bench has been something I've sat on!

An Australian expression that I like (it's used when someone behaves foolishly) is, "He/she has lost the plot." In North America we say, "He/she has lost it," but to my ear it adds panache to include "the plot."

Another expression I like, that's used when a family, a business, a school or other institution is going through or has gone through a period of difficulty or conflict, is "the wobblies." As in, "They've got the wobblies," or, "They're just getting over the wobblies."

Never heard "Brussels sprouts", Judy - is that a Melbourne thing? Rhyming slang was inherited from the Cockneys of course - possibly the only American example is "blowing a raspberry" (raspberry tart, fart). Yer true rhyming slang usually leaves out the first word, as in "Noah" (Noah's ark), shark. I don't think you'll hear too much of it, though, USNR, and I doubt that you'll hear much of anything that mystifies you. Much of Australia's rich slang vocabulary has to all intents and purposes disappeared. Pity, when you think of such terms as "galah", "nong", "dill" and "drongo" to describe a fool. However, if someone tells you they're "crook" it doesn't imply a criminal disposition, just that they're not feeling well. As in the old Sydney saying "crook as Rookwood" (Rookwood being a very large cemetery). On rare occasions someone might indicate extreme thirst by saying they're "as dry as a Pommy's (Englishman's) bathmat".

If you've spent time in the UK you'll find some of our usages have British roots. We use petrol, not gas; on the other hand we use kerosene, not paraffin. Sidewalks are footpaths. Your car has a bonnet and a boot, not a hood and a trunk, and a windscreen, not a windhsield. As in the UK, the street-level floor is the ground floor and the next one up is the 1st, and so on. We've taken to metric measurements with more enthusiasm than the British, though.

What you might hear is a propensity to abbreviate words as in "barbie" for barbecue. Queenslanders seem very committed to this habit, possibly because the heat saps their energy. After spending a little time in Brisbane (Brissie) I thought that I could be quite happy sitting on the porch of my four beddie (four-bedroom home), eating muddies (mudcrabs) and knocking off a tinnie (can of beer) while I looked out towards South Straddie (South Stradbroke Island). A little further north I saw the memorable roadside sign "Fisho at servo 500m" (fish seller at service station 500 metres up the road).

BTW, the only serious breakdown in communication I experienced in the US was when I asked a waitress for some cutlery rather than silverware.

I'll leave you with my favourite Australian joke. It concerns an old swaggie (swagman, drifter) lost in the Outback and starving, who makes camp at a billabong (water hole). After lighting his fire he turns to his faithful old dog. "Well, Blue," he says, "you've been a good mate to me, but now you're going to have to do one last thing for me. I'm sorry, mate, but I'm gonna have to eat you."
Later, he gazes sadly at the small pile of bones beside the fire.
"Jeez, I wish old Blue was here," he says, "he'd of loved them bones."

I liked hearing this one, from my friend who lives in the Sydney burbs. "Let's have a sticky beak." By that, she meant, let's have a look.. in a little shop we were passing by.

I need to get out my travel journals from my 5 trips to OZ and find a lot more sayings that were unique.

I also enjoyed sitting around at night, while on a 13 day tour of the outback, tasting a variety of beers, from Red Center to Emu Beer to N.T. Draught, etc. and discussing US/OZ politics. A lively discussion!

USNR, I know you'll have a wonderful time in Australia! The folks are so warm and friendly. You'll never meet a stranger!

Some Australian sayings are of course not suitable for a family board like this one....

Some Australians like to skite (boast) about our beers but IMO most are ordinary lagers not much different to ordinary lagers everywhere. If you want something with more character, try the James Squire range (Amber Ale, porter etc) and Cooper's Sparkling Ale. The latter is brewed in the bottle, as you can see from the yeast residue at the bottom. Some people like to shake the bottle before drinking, which I assume means they suffer from constipation - but it's a good drop. Cooper's also makes a good stout and a brown ale whose name I can't remember.

I think the difference between US and Oz beers (the common ones anyway) is accounted for by the use of malted wheat in addition to barley by American breweries, but I'm open to correction on that one.

Neil, you are on to something. Yes, American beers do use wheat (like the Germans do, too, only they designate such beer as "weizen" (VITE-zen)). Budweiser, the biggest seller in the US and possibly one of the world's most vile concoctions, IMHO, uses rice in its mix of grains. Perhaps it is time that we start a movement that the Brits had a few years ago: a return to real ale. The best hope in sight over here, Neil, is the great emergence of micro-breweries or small, hometown breweries, that have sprung up nationwide. Some of their stuff is simply fabulous, although marketed in very small areas. Too, we have some regional brews that have attracted a national following. Sad to say, their production is microscopic compared to big boys with the bittery, watery, nasty after-tastes and their enormous advertising budgets. I moan every time I see people drinking so-called "lite" beer. As the chemist told the brewer: "I am sorry to report, sir, that your horse has diabetes."

You're right, USNR, a lot of local brews in the States are very good, as is the widely available Samuel Adams Boston Lager, which won first prize at the Australian International Beer Awards a few years ago. Sadly, when people think of US beer Bud is usually what springs to mind. All I can say in Bud's favour is that it improves after half a dozen glasses. But then, any beer does.

Buying draft beer in a pub you may have to deal with expressions such as "middy" (a 10-ounce glass) or "schooner" (15-oz), in New South Wales anyway. It's different elsewhere.

Booze, smokes and petrol are all more heavily taxed and so more expensive here than in the US. On the plus side, the government goes easy on the wine industry. And many restaurants will allow you to bring you own wine at the price of a corkage charge, although this usually doesn't apply to beer, aperitifs, liqueurs or spirits, unless the place is so humble that it doesn't have a liquor licence. Even the much-feted (and wallet-lightening) Tetsuya's will allow you to bring your own wine, but it had better be bloody good, or you'll be sneered at by their sommelier. If you have a thick skin you might get some fun out of bringing a bottle of Orlando Jacob's Creek.

Hi USNR,

Not to throw a curve ball at you but we here in Oz also tend to use the same word but give it different meanings depending on how it is used. A good example is the word "mate". This can be used to mean pretty much anything from "a friendly hello" to " you bast..d".

If someone is keeping watch on the people passing by in the street they are usually referred to as "an Esmay".

Out here in the outback we usually greet people with G'day mate. You probably wont here this in the cities.

If someone is telling porkies then they are lying about something.

Someone how is behaving in a stupid manner is referred to as a Gallah. You may here someone say "check out that Gallah" or another version would be "What a goose".

Anpther little gem is the term "roach coach" meaning a mobile food vendor.

Cheers

Paul_S

http://www.aussieslang.com/slang/all...lian-slang.asp
This is handy, all of them are there, and many more!! :)
The only thing is that I'm not sure if these expressions are really used. When I was learning Dutch for example, friends told me: No we don't really use that word, although it is correct, we mostly use this other word.
So... Dictionnaries can lead to confusion sometimes too! :P

While out to dinner at a pub, my mother-in-law asked the serving staff for another "nappy", after hearing the term somewhere & assuming that it was an abbreviation of "napkin".

My wife and I were in stitches because a "nappy" is a diaper -- what she really wanted was an extra "serviette".

"Porkie" (pork pie) is another exmaple of rhyming slang but probably of English origin (cold pork pies are no more an Australian institution than warm beer).

Some terms are so obscure that few Australians will have heard of them. For example, "esmay"....? I must have led a sheltered life, Paul_S, but I've never come across that one. I'd like to think that bizarre expressions like "don't come the raw prawn with ME, mate!" are still part of the language, but they're slowly but surely passing away.

As scurry's mother-in-law found, a little learning can be a dangerous thing.

Okay, Aussie Fodorites, you haven't mentioned FURPHY yet. It's a tall tale, a false rumour, I guess what we in North America (and perhaps others too) have come to call an urban legend.

The term apparently originated during World War I. The Australian army purchased galvanized iron water-carts from the firm of J. Furphy & Sons. These water-carts, with FURPHY stenciled on their sides, were wheeled from camp to camp throughout the Australian army, particularly camps located in Egypt and what was then Palestine. Supposedly the water-cart drivers were sources of news, gossip and rumour, and soldiers used to gather around the water-carts to get the latest scoop. It was Australian soldiers who first used the expression, "a furphy," but the term made its way into the general population.

It is a pity that we cannot use quote replies in this forum it would make life a lot easier.

Anyway Neil to be an Esmay is quite a common term used it stems from the show A Country Practice in which the old busy body, Esmay Watson, watched all the goings on. It just became accepted as normal terminology for that sort of behaviour.

Maybe these terminologies are disappearing in the cities but they are alive and well out here in the sticks. Things don't change much out here the great ozzie ocker is alive and well much to a lot of peoples dismay.

Cheers

Paul_S

Paul_S: what is an "ocker"?

I'm sure this wasn't quite what Paul had in mind, but the Australian Concise Oxford Dictionary defines "ocker" as follows:

"-n. a boorish or aggressive Australian (esp. as a stereotype).
-adj. characterised by a discernible vulgarity .... [20th c: origin uncert.]"

I once knew a guy who could throw off thoughtful observations like "Look at that bloody dill-brain, dressed up like a pox doctor's clerk. Thinks he's as flash as a rat with a gold tooth, but the dopey bugger wouldn't know if a Bondi tram was up him until the bell rang!" He was a bookie's son - I think the racetrack environment helped to preserve some colourful argot.

Sydney's long-dead tram services also gave rise to the saying "to shoot through like a Bondi tram" (i.e., make a very rapid departure). Melbourne had more sense and kept its trams.

In a pub an Australian will say "it's my shout" rather than "my round". Presumably this originated in pubs where it was necessary to shout to get the barmaid's attention. It's a cardinal sin to allow others to buy a round of drinks that includes you and not reciprocate. If you do that you'll be accused of having short arms and long pockets.

It's interesting that Americans sometimes still refer to a cent as a "penny", but the word dropped out of use immediately Australia converted to decimal currency in 1966. Of course, we no longer have 1- or 2-cent coins, or $1 notes for that matter.

Fascinating, we all speak "English" but how varied it is. Rhyming slang is of Cockney origin (within earshot of Bow Bells, London) and includes "porkies" (pork pies) = lies, "apples" (apples & pears) = stairs, and literally thousands of others. Nappy IS short for napkin, and yes it does mean what USA calls a diaper. What USA calls a napkin is a serviette in Oz (although to be exact a serviette refers to the paper imitation while napkin is used for the real cloth one). Others are lollies = candies, jam = jelly, biscuit = cookie, shopping = marketing. It's not that the terms candy, jelly, cookie or marketing are NOT used in Oz, but they have different meanings there.

And jelly = Jell-O, scone = biscuit. But there are plenty of "cookies" on sale on Oz supermarket shelves all the same.

It's been years since I darkened the doors of a McDonalds - does anyone know who won the "fries" vs. "chips" war? And why do they sell "quarter-pounders" when we went metric years ago? OK, it does sound more impressive than a pathetic 113 grams.

here's a few more - breakfast or BBQ sausages (snags) are what Americans call "link" sausages, not sausage meat patties; our bacon has more meat and is like what Americans refer to as "Canadian" bacon; bell peppers are capsicums here; canteloup is rockmelon. Bacon and eggs in Australia is usually fried or grilled bacon with two fried eggs (sunny side up) with fried or grilled tomato and maybe mushrooms. We usually pronounce the "h" in "herbs" - and yes, you do eat the seeds in passionfruit!

Hi USNR,

Well the closest thing to an ocker would in America would be the redneck.

Neil, since the price of beer has gone up so much you don't see too many shouts in bars these days, in fact I know a lot of guys who wouldn't shout if a shark bit them. :o)

Cheers

Paul_S

I like that one, Paul.

Another difference in terminology - an Australian who's pissed is drunk, not angry or disgusted (which is "pissed off").

There was a nice example of deadpan Australian humour in "The Odd Angry Shot", a Vietnam War movie. From memory a scared soldier, wounded in a firefight, is waiting for the medics' attention and apprehensively says to his sergeant "They won't cut me leg off, will they, Sarge?"

"As long as they're not pissed, they won't, son," replies the sergeant philosophically.

Of course there's the quote from Dave Letterman's Top 10 Greetings from around the world - "Toss another dwarf on the barbie!".

As for quarter pounders - we all know from the movie Pulp Fiction, it's either that or "Royale with Cheese".

I heard an interview with a New Zealander (mayor of Napier?) on the CBC where he used the expression "everything's fluffy ducks!" which does sound interesting in a non-family sort of way, but allegedly means everything's just great. Unfortunately, we asked someone we knew in NZ and he'd never heard the expression.

I have photographic proof of an Australian "trolley bay". It's where you park your shopping cart in the parking lot.

Well, I've got photographic proof of a NZ "trundler park"! This is a beautifully descriptive term and beats "trolley" IMO.

It's often the little subtleties of language that trip us up, isn't it? I remember reading a page-turner written by an American author who had one of his English characters saying "Are you all right, bloke?" Perfectly reasonable if you assume that "bloke" is a precise equivalent to "guy" in all contexts. Not so, unfortunately.

MD, when I saw "Pulp Fiction" I was paying attention to Uma Thurman, not the burgers, so I'll have to take your word on that one.

Some common things

Seven Up = Lemonade
Lemonade = Lemon Squash
Cilantro - Coriander
Squash = pumpkin (as in butternut etc)
Cart at supermarket = trolley
Biscuits - we don't really have them but a plain scone is the closest.
Mom = Mum :) maybe too obvious lol


Also please note we do the date thing the other way around.

eg

5th June 2004 in the US is 6/5/2004, here it is 05/06/204. So speaking we say 5th June whereas Americans say June 5th.

Hope you have fun on your holiday. (holiday = vacation)

:)

Also seeing you are in Austtralia in April please check out Anzac Day activities even if you are not into war things. It starts at about 4.00am in the morning with a dawn service in just about any town and if you are not moved by the service you are not human. Then in towns you go the the club and have breakfast and play two-up. (A gambling game only legal one day of the year) If you are in Sydney downtown there is a big parade of war veterans then maybe pop into a bar with lots of old soldiers.. There is a club on Barrack Street. Usually some bands from the parade come in and entertain.

It captures an Austtralian spirit that you either appreciate or not but at least you get to witness Australian emotion.

We regret to say our tickets force us to return to the States just before Anzac Day.

A few years ago, while in Turkey, we stopped at Anzac Cove and its cemetery on Anzac Day. A small group of Australians were there. Yes, you are quite right. There is a wistful, prideful spirit about their presence on marking a brave defeat. The Turks have put up a large monument, inscribed in both Turkish and English, with a long inscription saying that they, the Turks, will take care of these remains and that families back in Australia should rest assured. Very sad. Yet very hopeful.

I might have mentioned once before that the only monument to a foreign entity along Canberra's Anzac Parade is one in honour of Kemal Ataturk, the founder of modern Turkey. This was a quid pro quo for the Turks naming the landing site Anzac Cove.

There is a large NZ monument, or rather pair of monuments, but although New Zealand is a foreign country, I think most Australians would find it a bit odd describing Kiwis as "foreigners", and it's 'ANZAC' Parade after all. IMO the differences between Australians and New Zealanders are no greater than those between residents of (say) Vermont and Georgia.

Just to add to the thread.

There is one saying in New Zealand which appears to be opposite to the meaning in the US. Lucked out. I've heard Americans say this and mean that someone has had good luck. In NZ if you luck out you do just that you are out of luck, usually in a big way.

As to the ANZAC theme one of New Zealand's most important war memorials is at a place called Chunuk Bair which is at the highest point of the Gallipoli Peninsula overlooking the straights of the Dardinelles. It is all of fifty feet from a statue of Kemal Ataturk. It symbolises a defeat yes but in conjunction with the memorial at Lone Pine, which Neil_Oz would certainly know a lot about, the three memorials can also be seen as the basis for three countries finally identifying who they were.

As far as New Zealanders and Aussies and the difference between us, it has been said that Australians mangle their vowels while New Zealanders merely swallow them.

Just ask a Kiwi and an Aussie to say the following and you will see the difference straight away - Dance, Chance, Milk and the old favorite Fish & Chips.

(I will not go near the jokes that arise from Sheep and the pronounciation of my hometown, Whakatane)

Cheers and laughs

Steve

No, "lucked out" doesn't have a positive connotation in Oz either. One US usage that could puzzle outsiders is that "I could care less" means exactly the same as "I couldn't care less."

Steve's accent summary is fair enough, or in Kiwi 'fear enough' (sorry, the Devil made me do that). Of course, it depends what one compares oneself to. For a long time a lot of Australians felt that their accent somehow wasn't quite legitimate, the "correct" model being BBC-English, and newsreaders used a quasi-BBC accent. We seem to have got over that, along with some other aspects of the national inferiority complex.

Steve, I might be showing my age here, but when I first visited NZ in the early '70s I wasn't conscious of too great a difference in vowel sounds, but when I returned many years later it seemed quite marked, especially among younger people. I think I read somewhere that there really had been a change in the last few decades, but nobody knows why.

Sometime in the fairly recent past, a piece of spoken punctuation has crept into American English. I refer to the use of "you know" or "y'know" -- a sort of spoken comma or dash. It fills space. It shows that the speaker is careless or ignorant or merely biding his/her time until a thought invades his/her brain. Very annoying. Most common among athletes being interviewed for TV. Sort of like letting your motor/mouth run idle while waiting at the curb. Has the Australian vernacular been invaded by this rhetorical virus?

USNR, would that be "y'know" as in "well, y'know, I mean...."? Sorry - you can run, but you can't hide. Hollywood got here ahead of you :(