Calling non-US citizens: Which US Pres. candidate would you vote for?
 

There's a thread in the Fodorite Lounge asking non-US citizens which Presidential candidate they'd vote for. Quite a few US citizens are looking forward to your response.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...=5&start=0

If you comment, please say which country you are from and when is your next election, so we can all give our opinions on that. ((*))

Thanks, schuler. I've posted my comments on the Lounge thread.

Jed, good idea. I'm more than happy for Americans to debate our political scene (which would give the lie to the other recent thread on the Lounge about Americans' alleged lack of interest in other countries affairs :) )

And I should have said that the next Australian federal election is due towards the end of 2010 (although the Prime Minister has some wiggle room if he chooses to exercise it).

For me ,in OZ also, it is OBAMA . Yes we can!!

If you US people elect another Republican, then as far as I am concerned you are gone.

The policies of the last Dubya years have just reinforced my antipathy to your country with its laiser faire atttitude to big business and its gung ho (we are the masters now) reponse to 9/11.

Once upon a timr I was an avid US watcher and student. I chose to study US history way back in the early '70s.

Now I am following the primaries with interest. Who is the better Democrat? Big question, but for us outsiders, the bigger one is not getting another right winger in the seat.

I prefer Hillary for her record of thinking and trying to do something about your nonexistent health service during Bill's first term.

Obama could be the best thing since sliced bread, but I'd feel safer with Hillary.

But expect another Republican, because, let's face it, there are too many totally ignorant Americans out there with a vote.

I would not vote! Reason - it would just be nice to be in a country that allows you the democratic right to decide to only vote if YOU want to and not be forced to do so.

As for choices: I don't think we know enough about your policies or politicians to be able to give you any idea. However I probably would vote ( if I were going to vote) for Clinton in case she did a "payback" on her husband which would certainly be fun to see.

janine from venezuela... our next election if... it comes, is to get rid of autocratic bully 3° world banan republic hugo chávez, our absolute karma!
i like obama but i'm scared of charismatic inexperienced politics, with good reason. i think hillary disguises her femininity to be perceived as tough and that's a mistake IMO, so i don't know. besides i'm a libra it could take me ages to decide, don't you see my trip planning? ;> jj

But I must say lavici, you do give helpful advice on travel! Lizzy, what a good point re Hillary's payback!At the beginning I was all for her but when Obama came on the scene I was hooked! I think we have lived so long under a mean spirited government here in OZ whose basic message was one based on fear ( I know you will disagree Lizzy ) that to see someone offering hope is a godsend. I was glad to see them go as I will be to farewell Bush but you would expect that of a child of the sixties!

Do you live in Nimbin PeterAlan?

The remarkable thing is how in just a few short months the Howard government has been consigned to the dustbin of history, by his Liberal Party successors as much as the general public. They've jettisoned almost all of what he hoped would be his "legacy", and few if any positive impressions of his years in office still linger. Howard himself is most likely to be remembered as only the second prime minister in Australian history to lose his own seat in Parliament at a general election, but perhaps even that accomplishment will be lost in the mists of time.

Sic transit gloria mundi.

IMHO George W Bush is the best thing to happen to the people of the USA in that now the population knows what can happen if you are apathetic about voting. It appears that many more people are becoming involved this time round as they realise they shape the nation with their vote.
Let's just hope that the terrible scandal of blocking the votes of people who see a future with a black president, is not repeated.

Very true, sunsurfsand, but people have short memories, I'm afraid. We followed the US into an unwinnable civil war in Vietnam over 40 years ago, and now we're at it again in Iraq and Afghanistan. (At least there were only two sides in Vietnam!) Truly, those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

But I agree it's a hopeful sign that so many more people are turning out to vote in the Democrat primaries. The Republicans, stuck with an ageing warhorse, seem to be trying to make the best of the situation - but it's not a done deal yet.

Take your point sunsurfsand. I have always supported the idea of compulsory voting with the hope it might make apathetic voters at least think about it and we are lucky we live in a country where we can vote. However I guess Lizzy has a point and Americans have both the right to vote but are not forced to. And no I am not a Nimbin dweller Lizzy but I do still have enough hair to put the flowers back in!

my dear mates from down under... i'm very amused about several idiomatic sentences which i don't understand at all, so i better start getting at it soon as my trip to OZ is around the corner, please advise on:
-what is 'a whinging POM attitude'?
- and what is "And no I am not a Nimbin dweller Lizzy but I do still have enough hair to put the flowers back in!"? it sounds tooo funny for words, please explain peteralan, if you don't mind. i need to polish my aussie coloquial words
and with due respect and for whatever my south american opinion here in the OZ's forum is worth, regarding lizzy's remark on the right to live in a country were you're not forced to vote ( by the way, how do they force you? i'm having images of all kinds in my head ¿¿??) i would like to add that even though i think everybody should have the right to be free and do whatever; between OZ and NZ there are about 9 of the best quality of life and highest standard of living cities in the world. so i wish i wish i wish with all my heart that we were forced to vote if our quality of living equaled yours even, if it meant being dropped into the jaws of a great white at the GBR, if i didn't vote.(LOL)
BUT... politically speaking, if you live in a democracy- with all it's imperfections- the only way to make a difference, AND gain the right to protest later for whatever, IS to vote. abstentionism may be used very effectively sometimes as a political strategy, depending on the circumstances, and when it's done massively like in peru as a strategy to bring down the autocrat fujimori,( he couldn't say he won massively when the streets were empty)but when it's done individually, it becomes ineffectual and goes down the drain, so IMO you lose the right to be a citizen, for better or for worse. i rest my case... jj

... and i like obama's hope message but, what i get when i see him, is the feeling of maybe his being too good to be true? like a packaged polished, finished product sold on oprah's show.
on the other hand the fact that he comes for a multiracial family and was brought up in indonesia and hawaii, makes him much better suited to put himself of the shoes of the "other" and be empathetic to people in the planet in this globalized world, than "the billary combo". see? tol'ya ... i'm a libra.jj

Do you get a feeling that you have seen it all before with Obama Lavici i.e. " I have a dream " or too good to be true?
ja ja ja Lavici, I wish you luck with learning our lingo! I have been trying to master South American Spanish for the last 10 years without too much luck. My daughter managed it but then she is somewhat of a linguist and it does not help when you are in places like Argentina where they speak Spanish with an Italian accent and inflection then you go to Chile and it is different again. Getting back to the right to a democratic life - we get fined if we do not vote so where is the democracy in that? You can avoid getting a fine by turning up at the polling booth and drawing all over your ballot paper though but you still have to turn up.
The reference on Nimbin and flowers in hair and child of the 60s - a child of the 60s was regarded as a hippy ( some were ) and would smoke weed and whatever and be out of their little minds a lot of the time - they would prance around with flowers in their hair and the best place to see this was in a town called Nimbin in northern New South Wales where a lot of hippies decided to live in the 60s and they are still there and pretty much look the same as they did in the 60s. The air in Nimbin still smells the same and you can just about get a high walking down the street where you will be offered any of the latest mind numbing drugs on the market. Some of the hippies became productive and now run shops and farms but the town is still much the same as it was in those times. So when Peterallen said that he was a child of the 60s I asked if he lived in Nimbin - by the way it is very much a tourist destination and a time warp and is a very beautiful area around Nimbin if you happen to be on the border of Queensland and New South Wales. There is a particularly nice round trip drive from the Gold Coast through Nimbin and out to Byron Bay and back.

I'm actually taking a bit of an interest in this political race. For the democrats two 'minority' candidates. Initially Hilary but now I'm not sure I'm so clear cut. Both are certainly stirring things up and it seems getting people out to rallies and thinking about their next president. It seems the choice of candidate will go right down to the wire. Have to admire their stamina.

I personally think having the choice to vote or not is good. I hate our system here in OZ. At least if you have a choice you have put some thought into the issues (hopefully).

hi lizzy :) well, what do you think? we can meet for tea in hobart and we'll do a trade off... i'll show you south american( lot's of countries), but i'll tell you right now, colombians speak the most beautiful spanish, we in venezuela speak it different liliting entonations from one region to the next, and i may say argentinians speak spanish( and do everything) with a whinghing POM/gaucho attitude ja ja ja )and over crumpets you show me tasmanian,maelbournian, adelaidan and finally sydneysider...?
i LOVED all this nimbin story you tell me with flowers in the hair as i can relate to the flower children 0:)so may i use it for my journals later?
yes, i meant obama seduces me with his hope and youthfulness like kennedy and martin luther, but scares me a bit with all his seemingly prepackaged charisma,too good to be true in a politician, and such smooth talkin' babe; is because f/instance our own very charismatic but crazy autocrat here seduced almost everyone with his smooth talking and we've had hell to pay for the last 10 years. last week he offered to build popular circuses with clowns AND everything, for $10usdmillion each for the people. can you believe this? in this day and age? roman "panis et circencis" ALL OVER AGAIN! we've had no 'panis'(bread), cofee, rice or milk lately(for 3 months and counting) six newborns died overnight for lack of care in the only low cost maternity in the city for the poor last sunday, but he's offering clowns... and protecting the FARC guerrillas.
so, i'll translate a popular saying here: "if you have ever been bitten by a snake, you get scared when you see a stick".
i hear you when you tell me about being fined. i know what you mean. it's very constricting and frustrating of course,not PC at all but...like i wrote before, from my chair here in caracas, if it got us even close to where you guys are right now in everything, i wouldn´t mind being fined for every single election! ironically, we have been "fined" in our quality of life everyday for the last 10 years :'(
janine

If I was not going to be en route to the USA myself when you are in Australia I would have loved to have met with you Lavici but our paths will cross over the Pacific I think. I have been following the exploits of Chevez for some time and shuddering at what will happen to Bolivia seeing they have alligned themselves to him. He was one reason I did not get to your country and of course the FARC were the reason I have not been to Columbia - I have been to most of the other larger countries in South America and have been entralled with it to the point that I would have been very happy to have spent part of my retirement in Bariloche had it not been for the chaos that is the Argentinian Government and the frustrations that come with living there. Chile on the other hand is much better but family won out over moving.
Perhaps you will find another reason to come back to Australia another time and then perhaps we can catch up. Whatever you do though, enjoy your stay in our country and have the best of all times here.

My comments on compulsory voting are on the Lounge thread.

Hi lavici. Lizzy has explained Nimbin et al. However in reality, so for as I was concerned personally,the sixties was a time when my political interest first arose with Vietnam etc. I was too boring though to ever wear flowers in my hair and didn't even do drugs. Yes, Kennedy, Martin Luther King etc inspired me and , for the first time in years Obama gives me the same sense of excitement. I agree that my excitement may well be misplaced and it might all be hype. However, I can't see him being less effective than the present President. I note our Prime Minister seems to be endorsing Clinton.

I'm still watching the primaries. Can't remember being this engaged in a US election since 1992 when, I have to tell you, I whooped for joy when I heard Clinton was in Bush Snr was out.

I'm sorry, Obama supporters, but I just have the feeling that the frenzy for him is media lead. Hillary is getting desperate. It would be hard not to if you were the front runner, then all of a sudden a no-hoper (originally) overtakes you.

I'd love to believe that Barack has what it takes. Maybe he is really special. But, from the outside, it just looks like a classic case of spin and dumbing down. I prefer Hillary and I don't think her association with a previous adminstration (in which her position was un-categorisable) should count against her.

But, for sure, either would be better than McCain.

PA, I watched Kevin Rudd on TV tonight and he was careful to avoid endorsing any candidate - unlike his predecessor, who last year blundered badly in attacking Obama and the Democrats generally, provoking some mirth among Americans, most of whom had never heard of him before then.

Then Bush gave Howard a ringing endorsement in Sydney last year. That was probably the final nail in Howard's coffin.

I'd be very surprised if Rudd, as a former career diplomat, made the mistake of endorsing any presidential candidate. It would do neither party any good, after all.

BTW, your experience of the '60s mirrors mine. Actually I saw very few hippies in the '60s - they were more common in the early '70s.

flowers in the hair, hmmmm i was in my VERY early teens, i was 9 years old in 1960 but in the 70´s i do remember hippies, and i even wore the granny dresses and wore a band around my head and many neclaces something like a yuppie/hippie maybe? and 'flowers in your hair... flowers everywhere' of course and 'lucy in the sky with diaaaaaamonds.... oh nooooooo'. well, speaking politics again. i know lizzy i read somewhere that our paths would be crossing. i'm sure there will be a next time...to meet you. i want to go to new zealand and i won't have time this time so i'll have to go back. soooomeday over the rainow tralalalalá...
politically as a s.a. IMO chávez is-- together with mugabwe (who seems to be on his way out),castro, bush, kim il sung, bielorussia's whatever, ahmadinejad-- part of the bad boys bully clique. bush is the same same 'ol as the rest of the gang, just standing on the other side of the radical ideological bible thumpin' rainbow, disguised by his twang and cowboy boots. he's the president the world loves to hate. chávez is now aiding madame K(argentina's inefable first lady), bachelet's chile flirts with him, but she remain firmly planted in their incredible economical growth just like brasil and uruguay. but he sends money to everybody and the cat: the farc,ecuador,cuba,ortega,perú bolivia( has a very strong opposition ... still)trying to convert south america into a farc- land under the gringo's very indifferent eyes... you see, georgie porgie still buys oil from us. so, i would say only uribe has his cojones very well tied in place,his economy is strong and self sustainable, and he resists our chavez's $iren$ oil songs... so, hillary would be tougher with this growing unrest in USA's own backyard, which bush has payed no attention to, centering it in oil rich iraq, plus iran/ghan. although obama would probably be more suave and deft at handling him than her or mc cain. but if 'billary' and obama keep wearing themselves out and tearing each other out in this very interesting race of two minorities, mc cain will be the next one paired with condi rice... he already has earned 6 points over obama and much more over 'billary'... ok, time to exercise my legs, instead of my fingers... see ya later mates. jj

Neil, yes I did think it strange that Rudd would actually endorse anyone.

Just thought you may like to read this everyone including Neil and PA:

A snipe at the Yanks by John Cleese.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Britain is Repossessing the U.S.A.

A Message from John Cleese: To the citizens of the United States of America:

In light of your failure to nominate competent candidates for President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas, which she does not fancy). Your new prime minister, Gordon Brown, will appoint a governor for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. (A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed).
To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.


1. Then look up aluminium, and check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.
2. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix -ize will be replaced by the suffix -ise. Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (Look up 'vocabulary.')

3. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. There is no such thing as US English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell- checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of -ize. You will relearn your original national anthem, God Save The Queen.

4. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.

5. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.

6. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. A permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

7. All American cars are hereby banned. This is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean.

8. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.

9. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline) at roughly $US10 per US gallon. Get used to it.

10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.

11. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. Australian beer is also acceptable as they are pound for pound the greatest sporting Nation on earth, and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of British Commonwealth - see what it did for them.

12. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie McDowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.

13. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nannies). Don't try Rugby - the Australians, South Africans and Kiwis will thrash you, like they regularly thrash us.

14. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first to take the sting out of their deliveries.

15. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.

16. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).

17. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm with proper cups, never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; strawberries in season.

God save the Queen.
Only He can.

John Cleese

thank you lizzy, it's too funny... imagining john cleese proclaiming this revocation edict out loud, dressed in velvet with a pompous uniform and a feather in his hat made my morning! ja ja ja janine

Yes Janine you can imagine John Cleese doing that thing dressed in, as you say, a pompous uniform and tongue firmly in his cheek. I thought it was very funny too.

At the risk of seeming a wet blanket, John Cleese didn't write this. The full story, including subsequent American rebuttals in the same vein, can be found at
www.snopes.com (search on "john cleese").

Interestingly, "aluminum" was the original spelling used by Sir Humphrey Davy, its discoverer. The US decided to revert to this spelling in 1925.

neil... you are a total -if honest- wet blanket. i was going to be a total copycat and inspire myself based on this idea for my monthly chronicle in a local newspaper. chávez, said in his last talk show on sunday ( lasted 5 hours) that he wants to create populist circuses in small towns, and i know we are far away from you in every way shape and form, but by chance do you remember spain's king juan carlos asking him to shut up in a summit in chile? well... so, i guess i'll use the inspiration anyway, john cleese or no john cleese. aluminum or aluminium. i'll have to find a representative of the beleaguered citizens of venezuela, who dressed in our national costume, will ask king juan carlos to revoke our independence(on april 19th)to become spaniards again and bow to the very tall king. the venezuelan copycat... jjjj

Not quite right on the history story of the spelling of aluminuim Neil - here is the correct one:

"It was not, however until much later that aluminium began to be thought as a metal separate and self contained for use such as other ferrous and non ferrous metals. In 1761 de Morveau proposed the name "alumine" for the base in alum. Later yet, in 1807, Davy proposed the name alumium for the metal, undiscovered at that time, and later agreed to change it to aluminum.

Shortly thereafter, the name aluminium was adopted by IUPAC to conform with the "ium" ending of most elements. Aluminium is the IUPAC spelling and therefore the international standard.

Aluminium was also the accepted spelling in the U.S.A. until 1925, at which time the American Chemical Society decided to revert back to aluminum, and to this day Americans still refer to aluminium as "aluminum".

But lets revert back to history. Aluminium was first isolated by Hans Christian Oersted in 1825 who reacted aluminium chloride (AlCl3) with potassium amalgam, an alloy of potassium and mercury. Heating the resulting aluminium amalgam under reduced pressure caused the mercury to boil away leaving aluminium metal. The metal was born for uses, which at that time no one could have thought of."

Never too old to learn ............