What is With Discouraging Beach Time in Thailand?!
 

I want to start this post by thanking all the regular posters for spending their time to offer up such helpful info about Thailand! It has really helped me plan my upcoming 3 week trip in Feb. You guys are the best! :-)

I know this is going to open up a can of worms but it is something I wonder every time I read a post about someone spending time on the beaches of Thailand.

There are several regular posters who always suggest that you should cut out beach time and spend it in Bangkok.

When I posted my rough draft itinerary I even said "I know many of you will suggest we cut out beach time but my boyfriend insists on 6 nights" I still received responses to cut out beach time. 6 nights beach time leaves me with 15 nights to explore other places. Seems resonable.

First of all, I have heard that Thailand has some of the most beautiful beaches in the world!

Secondly, many people do not live near a beach so it is a luxury and a treat to be able to chill out with a good book and a cold beer on a white sand beach with Palm tree fronds whispering over your head (I want to be there now!).

Thirdly, not everyone likes big, noisy, polluted cities like Bangkok so why encourage people to spend more time in an environment that is unappealing to them (I like the hustle and bustle of a large foreign city)?

Is the info we have read about Thailand having gorgeous, white sand beaches fringed with palm trees all lies, just the Thai tourism industry trying to get people to visit when in actuality the beaches are horrendous?

Is Bangkok THE best city in the world?

What is it?

I live in Portland, OR. We have stunningly beautiful beaches but it is rarely warm enough to lie on the beach and the water is so cold that you only enter with a full wet suit.

Frankly, I am going to enjoy chilling out on a nice Thai beach or two. I rarely have time to read a book so this will be a true luxury!

Bob, Gloria, Gpanda, Kathie and a few others, please enlighten all of us beach lovers! :-)

Thanks!

Euro, I can talk about my approach, the others will speak up for their approaches.

There are lovely beaches in SE Asia (not just Thailand). I'm not one to discourage people from visitng a beach, but when I see an itinerary that's almost all beach, or where the person spends their time going from beach to beach (so they don't even get the relaxation of staying at a beach) I do comment on it. As you know, beaches even in the most gorgeous places in the world give one very little sense of the local culture.

I figure people post here because they want feedback. I give them my feedback, and try to specify at least some of my biases, so people will know whether taking my suggestions will make their trip more enjoyable for them or less enjoyable for them.

Thanks, Kathie. As I said in my original post, the info that you, Bob, Gloria, gpanda and others post is invaluable. I can't imagine planning our trip without all of your helpful suggestions.

We are definitely spending more time in Bangkok than we had originally planned due to you all raving about it! I think it will be awesome!

I just can't get my boyfriend to agree to cut any beach time from our trip. Since it is his vacation too I need to give him SOME control as to where we stay. ;-)

we simply love bkk more than almost anything....

beaches....i find the beaches only ok...they are not as fantastic as the beaches we have in certain parts of new england for instance...
one thing to note is that because of the extreme heat in mid day and all day really it is very difficult to spent all that much time on the beach even under cover...
i love to insert stays at beaches while in asia but they are not my focus...your point about people not living near the shore is a good one, so i will keep that in mind...just as people have said for a long time you don't go to bali for the beach, i think the same holds true for thialand---i will catch it for this...water related activities yes, but beach alone no....for instance i spent some time on phuket in june, and i did not see one beach where i wanted to even walk...sorry...

many people short change their stay in bkk, which is a personal choice....i think it is a mistake and i try to point it out...

does this help??

Since you have 3 weeks, and you like spending time at the beach, I think you will certainly enjoy spending 6 nights at a tropical beach resort in Thailand. That's what we did and it was a wonderful combination for us, but everyone has their own ideas of what they like to do and how they want to spend their time. Some shop til they drop; others like spas, or hiking and trekking etc.. etc. You have to plan your trip to fit in the things you like to do, and many different posters on this site, in addition to the "regulars" whose likes and dislikes are all very clear from their many, many posts, can give you a feel for many different options. One of the fabulous things about Thailand is that there really is almost something for everyone. By the way, if you do decide on a beach resort, we loved the Pimalai on Koh Lanta near Krabi, and the weather will be perfect there in February. Do a search for Pimalai and you will bring up our trip report and some info from other posters as well.

I usually premise my statements about a beach by saying that I'm not a beach person. However, I have been to the beaches of thailand as well as other places closer to home and my feeling is that while the thai beaches are beautiful they are NOT thailand and not necessarily better or more romantic than places a lot closer to home. I absolutely understand people wanting to spend time at a thai beach but if they are spending half or more of their time at one and it's a frist trip, I usually say that they are missing what makes thailand special by focusing on the beach resorts. Since people come here to ask for feedback I figure they can read all the various points of view and come to their own conclusion. I just don't want them to think that if they go to Phuket they will be experiencing thai culture, art, history etc. Nor do I want them to think that the thai beaches are more extaordinary than beaches closer to home.

You're right that it's important that we all make sure we give full explanations as to why we say what we do so people can make up their own minds.

The first time we went to Thailand we had a few days beach time and we are glad we did. Next February we are not doing any beach time even though we are going in the dead of winter. The main reason is that we are traveling all of that distance and there is so much to see and do. Not only is Bangkok a great place to spend time but it is a great hop-off point for exploring other countries in SE Asia - Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos, Viet Nam, Bali, and even India. No, we are not going to all of those countries on our next trip (we only have 2 weeks) but we will be flying to Angkor Wat and Luang Prabang as well as spending 7 nights in Bangkok.

Euro-- as I said before I am not a beach person but I have spent time at beaches. Why? Because the person I was travelling with wanted to and as you said it's their trip too. So you compromise.

i think you have a nice long time and if you want to spend it on a beach, go ahead.

pn my third trip to thailand this summer i finally got to the "famous" beaches and to me, they did not measure up to those in oz, hawaii, or anywhere in the south pacific.

but maybe i took a wrong turn, whatever. do what you like it's your life and this is just a silly message board for a very limited number of people who are segregated by society in that : we over scrutinize our travel plans and want to let others learn from our missteps.

take it with a grain of salt...no sand!

enjoy your beach holiday!

I suspect that the reason a number of regular posters discourage too much beach time is that we are a self-selecting group. The common thread is that we all LOVE Thailand. While we undoubtedly each like different aspects of T-land, there is an essential Thainess for which we yearn. While that quality is difficult or impossible to define or even describe, one can say without a doubt that the beaches of Thailabnd do not communicate thisa quality as well as other locations, e.g., BKK, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, etc.. Our (I have not been authorized to speak for anyone else, but I do it all the time, so who cares)"suggestion" about keeping beach time to a minimum is given to maximize your exposure to people and sites and things "more Thai".

The beaches are wonderful, but not unique. There are many places with beaches as good. The Caribbean beaches are prtobably better. However, there are many unique aspects to Thailand; the people in more normal settings, the food, the river and more. The beaches are almost all purely tourist destinations. Everything is skewed towards catering to the Farang tourist. At most, you get Thai-lite.

Having said all that, we go to a beach every time we're in Thailand. A few days at the end of a trip are exquisitely relaxing. The key is that I don't think any of the regular posters go to Thailand to be on the beach. We go for many other reasons and just use the beach as a minor diversion. Hence our consistent recommendation that beach time be reduced. What do you expect from a bunch of know-it-alls?

After you go, please let us know whether you wish you had more, less or thye same beach time. We'll pretend to be open-minded.

Have a great time.

Gpanda, well said!

That really sums it up!

When I return I will post a detailed report of my trip, including whether I wished I had more or less time on the beaches.

I am truly looking forward to exploring the REAL Bangkok as well as the beaches.

As I have stressed, I do appreciate everyones advise and suggestions. That is why I post questions on this thread. This bunch over here is sooooo much kinder than the Europe forum (sorry guys but it is true).

That being said, Is 6 nights in Bangkok ample time to explore and shop?

Gpanda-- VERY well said! You certainly speak for me on this.

Euro -- whether 6 days in bangkok is enough time depends on a couple of things: 1) how much shopping do you want to do?; 2) Are you interested in or planning on taking any side trips to Ayyuthya, River Kwai, floating market?; 3) Are you having clothes made or planning on going to spas?

My first trip to Thailand was in 1985 and I went for 4 weeks, spending 8 days in Bangkok. I returned within the year specifically so I could spend another 2 weeks in bangkok and have been back 16 more times. So I'm amont those who says the more time there the better. On the other hand a friend just returned and said 8 days was much too long for her -- she wished she had cut two days and added them to Chiang Mai which she loved. So everyone is different.

I would say 6 days is a good minimum stay but if possible I would try to do your beach time at the beginning of the trip so you can explore Bangkok without jet lag. Get over your jet lag on the beach where there is much less to do or see.

Six days in BKK are perfect for a first visit. If you are swept away, you can do the secondary stuff and relish each moment. If you think it's too crowded, polluted, hot and humid, you can retrench and do day trips ike Ayutthaya, Floating market etc. Give yourself a few days to decide. Let jet lag and acclimatization settle. You can always wake up any day and change your plans.

I agree about the Europe Forum. They often seem to be overly invested in being the quickest, brightest and most knowledgeable. I liked Junior High School, but it was 40 years ago.

Gloria-Thanks for the validation. Sorry you won't be joining us at the GTG. Maybe next time?

We're all into different things. I usually head to Ko Tao where I can get a house in a quiet coconut grove away from the beach. Everyday bike down and scuba dive twice in the AM and twice in the PM, veg in the sun with a good book between dives on the boat. For 10 days-month, b4 I have a group of fellow travellers together for a tour of a slice of the country.

Hi luangwablondes-would love some info on Koh Tao. We plan to be there early Dec 2005 for a few days before we fly to Sri Lanka. Places to stay, restaurants, beaches, snorkel spots etc.

To eurotraveller-Thai beaches are great places to relax. Grab a book, a beer and a towel and relax for 6 days! You'll need it after Bangkok! And if you are after a fabulous country for your next trip, then research Sri Lanka. It is truly beautiful & better value for your buck than Thailand. Shopping is good too, although not as great as Bangkok! Good luck!

I am in BKK as I type this post. I, for one, love the beaches in Thailand. Some will say they are not as beautiful as, say, Hawaii or the Caribbean. I will differ on that. You will not find the land forms in those places that you see here. The small volcanic islands that jut out of the water are really beautiful!

I was just in Phuket a few days ago, and could have easily spent a week there, just chilling with a good book, listening to the pounding surf, and dining on some excellent food. Since I only have two weeks total, it did not make sense to stay that long, so I only had a couple of days. BUT they were a real HIGHLIGHT of this short trip.

When I come to Thailand, I always stay in BKK for at least a full week, and usually more. The last time I was here, for two weeks in February, I did not leave the city at all. There is so much to see and do here, and I have made so many Thai friends during my eight trips here.

DO go to the beach and have a great time there!!!

Carol

the secret of a good holiday is to research, ask for advice and then do what you want to do!
I cannot agree that if you go to a beach you are not seeing the real Thailand. Perhaps I just have been lucky. Doesn't anyone here ever speak to the beach sellers? Don't they eat Thai food? Try a songthaew with the locals? Go out to see the surrounding area?
I do a stressful job- when we go to Thailand I love to go to Bangkok but I also like to chill out at a beach. We can't do that in Scotland( well we can do the "chill" bit literally!!)
Some people go to Bangkok and spend all their time shopping,in spas( how many locals do that?) staying in American chain hotels and eating at hotel restaurants. Are they seeing the "real" Thailand? No- but they are doing exactly what they want to do.
The reason why Thailand is so popular is that it means different things to different people.
Listen to what the posters here say, you get some fantastic advice, but remember is is YOUR holiday!

I love Thai beaches - perhaps I should speak up more when it gets on to the question of beaches vs Bangkok! (although love Bangkok too, and think people often don't spend enough time there. Euro - re. the six days in Bangkok, you could spend a lot longer there, but you only have 3 weeks and you seem to have a good balance.

I think this forum is great too - the responses are considered, detailed and impassioned (although am now intrigued to look at the unfriendly Europe board!! - but am supposed to be preparing a lecture I have to give tomorrow on the legal constitution of a company - snore - you can see why I taking a detour via Fodors.)

However, I too have noticed that a common piece of advice is to cut beach time in favour of Bangkok - and when a poster has visited Thailand so frequently, the recommendation, coming from experience and knowledge, carries a lot of weight and can come over v strongly. Fair dos - it's just an opinion, but for some people, especially honeymooners and travellers from Europe, the beach is a major part of the draw and a big part of the dream holiday - and I'm sure nobody would want to burst that dream bubble that is so looked forward to. (I know that we have some lovely beaches in Europe but we are short on tropical waters and islands here!)

For a lot of my friends, the attraction of Thailand is the ability to combine beautiful beaches (I'm with Carol on this) with culture, cities, waterfalls, trekking, food (YUM!).

From Europe, Thailand is better value than the Carribean and the flight times are comparable (12 hours). Hawaii would take even longer. Flights and accommodation (other than in a cattlemarket resort) for a Carribean destination would be expensive for us. I'll admit, some Carribean beaches once you are there are picture postcard perfect, but you don't get everything else that Thailand has to offer. Perhaps it is worth finding out where someone is travelling from if not apparent. I know a lot of posters are US based, but some of us live elsewhere!

Oh, also if coming from Europe, as we can fly in 12 hours direct and overnight, we can be up and running in Bangkok more quickly than someone coming from the US.

Bella
You make a good point, about being ready to get out and explore maybe a little more perky than us US travelers, because your travel time is not so great.

I don't have a beach in my part of the heartland, so coming to a beach in Thailand is a real treat. Hawaii is an 8 hour flight, and very expensive. There is value in the beach vacations here.

Carol

Wow I don't think I can do this one sitting in an Internet cafe !
Here goes....a very large number of tourists never see anything more of Bangkok than the airport, because very large numbers especialy from Europe just connect either by plane or other transport onwards to the beaches, because their plan is to have a beach vacation in Thailand and that does not include city time. Prior to living in Bangkok for some time I perhaps spent a couple of nights there over a decade, for me a sprawling city and I am personaly not a city person, living there though somewhat different but eventualy moved away.

I think it really is what you are after from your vacation, so many visit Thailand purely and simply to laze on the beach, do some snorkeling, have a meal and maybe head to the bars or whatever, the concept certainly for many especialy from Europe of a Thai vacation is lazing on a sun drenched beach, not spending time in a city.

What is great about Thailand is that there is such a diverse choice, Bangkok has an almost endless amount to offer those who are happy with big cities, but you can also get away from it all, it doesn't matter whether you want to trek in mountains or kayak down a river, shop all day long or ride elephants till you can't move a muscle, some snorkel or dive every day, others do nothing except grab a lounger around the pool and stay there all day.
Charter flights travel from Europe direct into Phuket with package holidaymakers who would never dream of going to Bangkok, other head to Bangkok and go no where else, most head for main tourist destinations ( and then say how Thailand is swamped with tourists, not appreciating that well over 90% of the country almost never ever sees a tourist ). People ask about quiet beaches, I often recommend nice quiet places where you can find nice resorts and certainly not a McD in sight, but those places remain quiet, because people head straight to the main tourist places, because whatever a lot of visitors say they really 'do' want a McD and a Starbucks ( check the queues into those places in Patong ! )
Everyone wants something different, and of course it depends too where you are from and how you want to spend your time.
If you want big city it's there, if you want beaches, those too, you want untouched Thailand, plenty !!

Hi JamesA - absolutely agree you re. the European package holidaymakers. More fool them! With fixed itineraries/stays, unlikely to be posting on this board though and will remain uneducated as to the wonder of the rest of thailand

See, I knew this would raise a good topic of discussion! ;-)

I am always surprised when a poster says if you go to Thailands beaches, you are NOT experiencing the REAL Thailand. IMHO, if it is in Thailand, it is the REAL Thailand!

We had originally considered going to a nice quiet beach on the south end of Phuket (Nai Harn) but have decided to skip Phuket altogether. Mass crowds of tour package folks just don't appeal to me. Those folks aren't "travellers" they are "vacationers".

We are also now going to spend 7 nights in Bangkok (still not cutting out beach time!). I know when we were in Istanbul in June we regretted only spending 6 nights there. We could have used an extra week! Big cities deserve more exploration.

We do plan on having clothes made. From what I have read here that can be done in as little as 4 days, right?

Lyndie, thanks for suggesting Sri Lanka! That has peaked my interest so I am going to consider that form my next overseas trip!

Eur0-- yes you can have clothes made in 4 days but the longer you give the tailors the happier you will be/ I would suggest starting the clothes the first day you are there.

I think when we say phuket isn't the "real" thailand we mean it in the same way as saying that Disneyworld isn't the real america.

Fiona, you expressed my sentiments exactly. Tell me, folks, is the Pen (so much beloved on this site) the "real" Thailand?

James and Bella

I can well understand what you mean about some European holidaymakers not seeing the REAL Thailand - I often see posts on the Europe forum from American tourists going to the "Greek Islands" and they invariably ask about Santorini, Naxos, Mykonos, etc and I think to myself that if only they realised that there's more to Greece than the well-beaten American tourist route around the Cyclades, they might actually see something of the real Greece.

However, I'm hoping to go to Thailand for about 3 weeks sometime within the next 18 months and, although I wouldn't dream of going to an AI resort and want to see something of Bangkok and maybe another city, I'm planning plenty of beach time into the trip. Mainly because it will probably be the only opportunity I get to relax on a beach and soak up the sun that year and that's one of the things that I like to do on holiday, as well as soaking up some of the local culture.

So please don't be too hard on the "european package tourists". For us, SEA can be a relatively cheap means of grabbing a couple of weeks in the sun and we might even get to experience a different culture whilst we're at it. Also a "package holiday" usually means something different to Europeans than it seems to mean to Americans. In Europe, most package holidays include just the flights and accommodation and after that you're free to do whatever and wherever you please, without being tied to any set tours and rigid itineraries.

I once participated in a training for volunteers going to the third world for a few months. I remember the trainer saying that in order to get to know the country and its people -- do what you like to do at home as long as it's something that puts you in contact with locals. He said he always finds a pool hall. Others like to shop. If you talk and intereact with locals other than to just say please, how muchy and thank you, you're learning about the country,

CFW and Fiona, those are my thoughts as well. I think the average Thai family probably spends more time on a Thai beach than they do at the Pen, the Marriott and the Oriental. I am sure that they also probably dine more often at a beach side vendor cart than they do at the Bed Supper Club or the restaurants at any of those hotels.

BTW, I HATE that damn Marriott Pop up the covers half the screen when you are trying to post a message! Talk about annoying!

Let's face it, even those who visit BKK yearly are all just tourists. None of us, except perhaps James A and a very small number of others who actually live in Thailand, can say what the "real Thailand" is.... And Gloria, Disneyland is most definately a reflection of a slice of American culture, whether you like it or not. What is the "real America," Nantucket or a honkey tonk beach on the Jersey shore. Manhattan or a small Kansas town? What is the "real Thailand"? Go and experience what you like and see for yourself the smorgasbord (now that's a mixed metaphor!) that Thailand has to offer, which is why so many different types of people with different likes and interest love it.

Why do we travel? I think that’s really the question this gets down to.

To some people Thailand’s beaches are a cheap vacation – and that’s all they want. They can get sun and water and stay in a nice places and eat good food for much less than it costs them to stay at a mediocre place at home. Those people will go wherever they go, the beach, Bali, Bangkok, the Greek Islands, Mexico, and will miss any flavor of the culture. They might as well stay at home – except this is cheaper, more novel, and has an exotic tone to it. There is nothing inherently wrong in this, though these are the people most likely to offend the locals with inappropriate dress and behavior. As long as they behave ok, their presence brings in tourist money to an area.

I was stunned to read a post on the thread about the latest Bali bombings that was a rant about how the Indonesians hate Westerners and there is no reason to go to Bali anyway, it’s just a cheap holiday. I expect that others here were as amazed at that attitude as I was. For those of us who come half way around the world to experience Bali’s unique culture, calling it a cheap holiday is missing the point entirely. But to some subset to Australians, that’s what Bali represent to them (just like for some subset of Americans Mexico is just a cheap holiday “but why don’t those people speak better English?”). So there can certainly be an ugly side to this approach, but most “package tourists” come and spend their money and appreciate the sun and relaxation.

If someone is posting for trip advice on this board, I assume that they want something more from their holiday – some understanding of the people and the culture, a chance to view the world from a different perspective. That means visiting more than resorts. Yes, one can insulate oneself pretty effectively in Bangkok, but it’s harder to avoid contact with the day to day activities of the local populace in a big city than it is at a resort. Yes, talking with workers at a resort or the beach vendors gives you more of a glimpse of the culture than not talking with them, but I would maintain that the “beach culture” of a resort area anywhere is a special subset that doesn’t necessarily reflect much of the larger culture. That’s why I respond by suggesting more time in Bangkok (or Hanoi or wherever) when someone posts a proposed itinerary that skips or slights major cultural sites.

I’m not arguing against having relaxation time. Indeed, I believe it’s important to rest and to have the time to absorb new experiences. I always make sure I’ve scheduled in some relaxation time, whether it’s a day of spa or a few days at the beach. But if ALL I wanted was relaxation, I’d do something closer to home.

Thanks for posting this thought-provoking question, Eurotraveller

Kathie-- and outstanding response. Agree 100%.

Hmm..
I am a little disappointed with your post Kathie- sorry!
Perhaps it is just me reading it wrong. Someone who wants a beach resort doesn't have to only want it because it is cheap and sounds exotic!They don't have to offend the locals by dressing inappropriately. They can talk to locals there. Who is to say that the locals there are less Thai than city dwellers? Why can't you go to the beach resort but also go on trips beyond the beach?
I agree with what you said about Bali- that post annoyed the hell out of me as well. I spent a while on a beach there as well by the way. During that time I watched the locals fishing, repairing boats, selling their goods. I saw the Hindhu shrines on the beach and watched the ladies going round with their offerings. I watched the local children flying their handmade kites. I also hired a local driver who took us round the island and told us all about daily life.
I'd hate to think that just because I like time on a beach I am somehow inferior to others.
Sorry if I have picked you up wrong.

fiona, I guess I didn't fully communicate what I wanted to if you thought I was saying going to a beach meant all that. That's one of the hazards of posting - it doesn't communicate as fully and clearly as we'd like, and there is always the risk of misunderstanding especially across cultures.

I'm saying that I expect the travelers who post on this board are asking questions because they want more than a cheap beach vacation. That doesn't mean that enjoying a beach means you aren't interested in culture. But if you are interested in culture, you'll want MORE than a stay at the beach.

now can we get back to harmony???

Hi Xenos - I am European (British) so completely understand that you can put together a package where you are stopping in various places around Thailand as well as the beach. If you read my earlier post, I put in a plea for others to be gentler with regards to the beach plans of the Europeans! We are going for 5 weeks (including our wedding) next summer and are planning to spend 3 out of the 5 weeks on various islands. This is probably more than we would normally spend there (this is our 6th extended trip) but we have a small toddler who we need to think of - the cultural and anthropological sites we would love to visit this time round are simply not suitable for her. Also, we love diving and snorkelling so will be getting some time in down in the deep whilst we are there.

The type of packages I was talking about were the ones that I am sure you will have seen advertised, where you go for 10 days to the beach and that is it. Certainly, from the UK, these do attract SOME who may as well have a blindfold on. If you are living in Greece, you may well have heard about the delightful (not!) behaviour of my fellow Brits in your country too. I'm truly sorry if I caused any offence to you, I really didn't mean too.

B

Kathie
Phewww!Glad I was wrong! I know what you mean about posts. I wish we had an edit button here!

Sorry, Kathie, maybe I'm just feeling cranky today, but I think the attitude that came across in your posts is a little self-righteous -- as if people who enjoy a beach resort are not interested in the culture of the place they visit. On the contrary it seems as if Eurotraveller and others are very much interested in seeing much more than just American-style hotels (like the ROS special towers rooms that you like so much) and western restaurants. And what about those who seem to spend time at the the pools of their western-style hotels in BKK -- are they experiencing the culture of the place they are visiting? And those of who so highly recommend the Italian restaurants in BKK, which I could never understand. Why go to Thailand to eat Italian cuisine? But, if that's what they enjoy -- hey, it's their vacation -- yes, it is a vacation not a cultural exchange as some of you would like to pretend. The point is, people who stay in glass houses (or should I say glass hotel towers) shouldn't throw stones. Well, this does sound like a rant, but I'll end with a positive note by saying that of all the posters on this topic Gloria and GPanda seem to have been most straightforward about their own interests, likes and dislikes, and not so judgmental about others.

rhkkmk!

The beaches of New England? You must be kidding.

How could you go to Phuket and not see a decent beach? You must have stayed in Phuket Town. Kata and Karon beaches are among the best Thailand has to offer and Patong would be too if it wasn't for all those darned tourists.

Mind you, I am not a great fan of Thai beaches myself, as I demand surf, and, forgetting the glorious beaches of my homeland, about the only place you get that in SE Asia is Bali. But I am also a beach runner and for this activity Thai beaches are great. So take up jogging and you will get a new perspective on Thailand.

Harzer

Oh, and I forgot SJ Jewelers -- another true Thai cultural experience, I suppose... Don't get me wrong, I also enjoyed shopping for jewelry in BKK & will when I am there again, but that is again something that is more for tourists than local Thais... and trying to portray yourself as someone who truly experiences the local culture while criticizing others who go to the beach or do so many other things that you may have never tried rings a little hollow.

Why do some people always have to take things personally on this forum? :(

i think using the word "critize" is a bit harsh....
bob, kathie, james, gpanda,orgy and all the other regular contributors to this
forum have been awesome to us "newbies".
my first trip to thailand, cambodia and myanmar would not have been nearly as enjoyable without these folks helpful information.

each person has their favorite places to go, restaurants, shopping suggestions and towns...we are all biased on what we individually like and dislike...and we make our own decisions as to cities to visit, sightseeing and whether to go to certain countries or beaches....

i live on maui...work near the beach and watch people spend their entire holiday sitting by the pool or on a lounger by the beach....and they could have saved themselves thousands of dollars by going to san diego. you need to get off your duff to experience local culture...and this includes dining your way across asia...wats, shopping, treks, beaches, museums. all of these things give us the opportunity to savor thailand...even if you stay in a major hotel...bangkok is amazing...
thailand is the most incredible place with something for everyone....

and thank you bob...and kathie...for all your incredible information and for sharing it with us. keep it up...