Vietnam & Cambodia Itinerary
 

Hi,

I need recommendations for a 21-day Itinerary to Vietnam and Cambodia in December (Is it a good idea to add Thailand)?
We are very active and adventurous. Budget-travel

Thanks

If you are not really interested in the other 2 countries, then add Thailand. But I would not recommend that. My previous Vietnam trip lasted for 3 weeks and I felt like that was not enough time only to explore the southern half of the country.

Thank you, I appreciate your input Tvsalphaaov :-)

No it is not a good idea to add time in Thailand. Firstly it is much more expensive than Vietnam or Cambodia so doesn't fit well with your requirement for budget travel, Secondly, 21 days is barely enough for Cambodia and Vietnam - you could easily spend the entire 21 days in Vietnam.

First thing to do is to sort out your international flights as that will largely dictate your route (wherever you decide to go). Ideally, I would aim for an 'open-jaw' ticket into one city and out of another. Hanoi and Saigon are the obvious candidates. Vietnam is along thin country and this would avoid doubling back. Even better would be into Hanoi and out of Phnom Penh but the only airline I know that may offer that would be Emirates.

Something like this would work well.

Hanoi (+Ninh Binh, Mai Chau etc...)
Hue /Hoi An
Saigon
Through the Mekong Delta by bus , boat and bike stopping off at Ben Tre, Can Tho, Chau Doc
Boat from Chau Doc to Phnom Penh in Cambodia
A few days in PP then get buses to Siem Reap via Battambang for Angkor Wat.

In terms of "adventure" you could spend less time in the cities and get out into the countryside either in the delta or on the mountains of northern Vietnam.

most of these places we covered in our blog @ https://accidentalnomads.com just click on the destination tab for the relevant country.

The options are many so you really need to decide what it is you want to see and do and plan a route accordingly. Both Vietnam and Cambodia are very geared up for independent budget travel but it can take time to get from place to place. It is a cliche I know but less really can mean more in SE Asia.

Hi Crellston

Thank you so much - that sounds great.
I've checked your blog twice now and love it. I don't like the fact that they eat dogs in Northern Vietnam but I assume that is how it goes. Do you think they kill dogs to eat them or cook dead or sick dogs? Must say as a big animal lover I wouldn't like to experience that.
However thanks for all the advice and info on your blog - Much appreciated!

Hi Crellston

Let me know your thoughts:- and how many days in each of these?
Flying from South Africa to Hanoi -
Then flying or taking the overnight Bus (or train) to Hue /Hoi An? -
then to Saigon (fly/train or Bus)? -
Then, travel by Bus through the Mekong Delta - boat and bike, stopping off at Ben Tre, - Can Tho, - and Chau Doc.
After that, take a boat from Chau Doc to Phnom Penh in Cambodia -
A few days in PP, then get buses to Siem Reap via Battambang for Angkor Wat.
And then back to SA?
Any recommendations for overnight places?
Hiking (or Cycling) - I've read about your hike through Northern Vietnam - would you recommend that for a Solo traveller? (I'm unsure if I'll travel alone as hubby is not very interested.)
Would you also recommend I take a backpack rather than a suitcase (perhaps a dumb question)? hahaha
If any adventurous travellers out there would like to join me - let me know - I need to live life while I have the chance and in good health.

Hi Mimmie,

Good to know you found our blog helpful.

Like you we are animal lovers. Indeed when back in the UK we spend much of our time in other people’s houses looking after their dogs. Sadly eating dog meat does happen in Vietnam (and much of SE Asia) though it is not widespread and the average tourists would be unlikely to come across it. It is mainly to be found in more remote, rural areas, mostly in the north .

As far as nights in each location are concerned, to visit all the places you mention at a reasonable pace would need the best part of a month. I think something like this would work but you may need to drop a few places to fit into your 21 days otherwise it would be way too rushed.

Nights

4 Hanoi
3 Hue/Hoi An
3 Saigon


Mekong Delta

2 Ben Tre
1 Can Tho
3 Chau Doc

boat to

2 Phnom Penh
2 Battambang
4 Siem Reap

1 Hanoi

By my calculations that is 25 days. I suppose you could shave a day here and there but do bear in mind that two nights anywhere only gives you one full day of sightseeing plus the odd half day. Three nights = 2 days etc.

The hiking tour we took from Mai Chau to Ninh Binh took four or five nights as I recall. A brilliant trip! We chose a private trip but most will just join a small group which has the advantage of being cheaper and provided company for a solo traveller, so yes, I would recommend it.We used Ethnic Travel who were very good but there are literally dozens of tour operators in Hanoi and Saigon offering trips all over. Some are better than others so caveat emptor! To incorporate such a tour you would need to drop something. I would suggest Hue/ Hoi An as the weather won’t be great in central Vietnam at that time of year

Backpack, backpack, backpack! If you possible can, do what we do and get it all into a carryon so you don’t need to check it in all over the place. My packing list is to be found in our blog in tne travel tips section. My wife’s is also there (basically the same but with different underwear and she has more lotions and potions!)

Hanoi flight or train to Hue or Danang and then Danang flight or train to HCMC, avoid bus due to long distances.

I will say flights are the best. The train will not be that comfortable.

Definitely train rather than plane. Easier to get to/from and much better scenery. I've ridden Vietnamese trains the full length of the country and the rolling stock has been refurbished since my last visit. I wouldn't recommend Hanoi to Sapa (worst ride of my life) but the other trains are fine.

For more info see: https://www.seat61.com/Vietnam.htm

Thank You!

Thanks

Hi Crellston, what do you think about a) SAPA? and the following 50% discounted trip from Tourradar? Please give me your opinion as a 50% discount might be worth it?20 Days in Vietnam and Cambodia along the Mekong

Hi Mimmie,

Sapa is beautiful, stunning scenery, but hit as suffered from overtourism for years. To make the best of it, I am of the opinion that you need to get out of the town and into the villages rather than stay in the town. It is many years since I have been but it is not a place which would be high on my list.

Regarding your tourradar trip. I don’t know of them but it is difficult for me to comment without details of teh tour which you haven’t included!

My apologies, link is https://www.tourradar.com/t/76118.
There are several ones.

Thank you.

My first thoughts with any tour company is - who are they? Where are they based? What consumer protections do they offer to you based on your geographical location? Are they financially stable and only then would I even consider partying with any money.You will need yo do your own research on these points and make an informed decision based on that reasearch. I have never heard of them but there is no reason that I should have. I am based in the UK but this company seems to be based in Vienna. Using a company outside of my own country would always be a concern for me.

As for the tour itself, I am afraid, as is typical of many tour operators, it is very fast paced. Way too fast for me. to put this into context, we have taken several trips along very similar, almost identical routes but it has taken us two or three times the amount of time. I appreciate that we are slow traveller compared with some but this itinerary

In-Depth Cultural Tour: 20 Days in Vietnam and Cambodia along the Mekong

has you changing location around 12 times in 20 days. That is 12 times checking in and out of hotels, transfer to airports, taxis between towns etc. etc. I bank on losing half a day to mundane stuff like that every time you move which is a massive chunk of your waking vacation time. To an extent this is mitigated by the fact that someone is organising all this for you but not by much. Some of those moves will involve some nice sights along the way. Personally , I would want a minimum of three nights in any location which would allow for 2 full days of actually doing and seeing stuff. Some people are fine with this and are happy with a whistle stop tour ticking off locations but it wouldn't be for me.

Apart from Sapa, of which I am not a great fan, the itinerary seems fine, just very rushed. As an example they have you spending a single day at Angkor which is a massive site. Most people spend at least 3 full days there and usually more. You may as not bother with one day there given the 8-10 hours it take to get there from PP.

I dont have time to dig into the pricing in dept but a quick look seems to indicate a cost of almost £2000 for the tour excluding International flights. Which is not as expensive as many I have seen but that includes a "50% discount" which IMO is probably just marketing hype. and still more expensive than you could do independently or even with a series of local tour in country.

Hope this helps

Personally, I would view any company offering a 50% discount with deep suspicion. I also note that the price does not include "+ $366 Internal airfare and Tour Guide fee". Tour guide fee? Tourradar appears to be a reseller,rather than an actual tour company, selling tours operated by multiple other companies. This tour appears to be private rather than an actual tour group, and a combination of separate shorter tours with different transport and drivers. The advertised price is probably for the three star hotels. I haven't checked them, but it looks like the Hoi An hotel is on the beach and not in town.

Aside from that I agree with crellston, although I'm OK with two night stops in some places. However, any tour that offers just one day at Angkor is rubbish. I suspect they hope you will buy an add-on. My first visit to Angkor was two and a half days (three nights) and I decided that wasn't enough and went back for several more nights.

They do, but not only in the north (just more in the north). It is brutal that they do a lot of things to the dog. But it is not a "cultural" thing, when I was traveling in Vietnam there were not so many places like that, just a few for a small group of people. For the rest they loved dogs and tried their best to protect them from the "dog thieves" around the streets.

Hi all
Thanks for the advice.

Hi, Which Flight Co in Vietnam do you recommend? Will it be better if I book in advance (before my travel)?

The two main carriers in Vietnam are Vietnam Airways, the national carrier and Vietjet , a budget carrier. Neither are up to the standards of major western airline but IMO, Vietnam Airways are by far the better bet. Vietjet seem to have a pretty awful reputation for reliability etc. Elsewhere in Asia and to/from Vietnam I have always used Air Asia and have always been happy with the service and fares.
We have always tended to visit for extended periods and use the overnight trains where possible - worth trying once just for the experience!

Hi

I can get a reasonable flight from SA to Hanoi - and, after travelling to Vietnam, to Siem Riep. I've noticed you mentioned (the last day in Hanoi before flying back) Why is this as Saigon is closer to Cambodia, or is it better (and Cheaper) to pass at the end of my trip from Cambodia to Hanoi than Saigon? I need to know before booking my main trip to and from Vietnam.

This will be my first time travelling Solo (a bit scary)! Would you recommend I book accommodations only for the first few nights or arrange it when I'm there? Or book most of the accommodation as it's peak season?

Do you have any specific recommendations for accommodation and the best way to travel between places?

Two reasons I mentioned a night in Hanoi before flying home to South Africa ( wonderful country BTW - we spent a couple of months there and loved it!)

1. I would always recommend staying in the city of departure the night before a homebound flight in case of delays or cancellations.
2. I assumed that you would be getting a return flight from SA. If you can get an open jaw ticket then, yes flying out to HAN and back from SGN at no extra (or little) cost then yes, that would be better

Booking accommodation

On a relatively short trip such as this, it would make sense to book accommodation in advance. You can research at leisure and choose the places you like in the right location. I book using booking.com always on a fully refundable basis so if I do change my route I can just cancel 24/48 hours before with no cost (you pay on arrival direct to the hotel for most stays). On longer trips we sometime just book the first few nights and see how we go. on these trips we often change plans. One time we booked three nights in Saigon and ended up staying three weeks. If your route is set then I think it makes sense to book in advance and if things do change, no problem. It is not like South Africa where I remember having to book AND pay for accommodation in advance (indeed that is the only country I have had to do that!)

Apart from Tet, it is very rare not to be able to find a room whether it be in a cheap backpacker hotel or a five star place.

Once you have decide on where you are going and if you would care to provide an idea of the sort of places you want stay/budget, I would be happy to suggest places to stay and how to get between this places.

PS I forgot to mention in my previous post, yes, I would suggest booking flights in advance as soon as you have finalised your itinerary

Thank you!

I've read that springtime is best for most parts of Vietnam (roundabout March - April - May).
Will it be better to not go in December and rather book for April?

The best time to travel to Vietnam for the best weather is Spring (March - April) and the months between Autumn and winter (October - December):

• Avoid storms in July and August that affect your trip negatively. Your trip may be canceled/ delayed due to bad weather).
• Avoid the super hot summer (from May to August), and the rainy season in the South (from May to October).
• Freezing and dry climate in the North and Center (from the end of December to January).

Vietnam , being a long thin country affected by various monsoons, has complex weather patterns. This tour operators website will help you pick the right month https://www.selectiveasia.com/vietnam-holidays/weather just click on a month/region for a more detailed explanation. Jan to April should be good for most areas. December could also be good - in these days of climate change, it's hard to tell! December will probably be a bit wet in Central Vietnam (Hue & Hoi An) and it will likely be cool in the north.

Thanks, DinHo and everyone else for all the info

Thanks, Crellston

Hi tvsalphaaov,

So you wouldn't recommend the overnight train to Sapa, right? what do you recommend?

Hi, I meant to say which way of transport you would take if you visit SAPA next time. Thanks

Hi everyone,

I eventually convinced hubby to come along and I booked our flight from SA to Hanoi and a return flight 27 days later from Saigon to SA (Johannesburg). It looks like a 29 day Itinerary but keeping in mind the overlay in Dubai it's more 26 days. We are usually tired after our arrival seeing that we cannot really sleep on the plane and so on.

Unfortunately my hubby is not the planning type and don't give his opinion and leave it all up to me, saying he knows he will have a great adventure (I guess I I'm used to that by now - I'm the only one with the Wanderlust gene's).

I wanted to spend a few days in Sihanoukville but read that there is a lot of construction going on and not a pleasure - there are other great beaches but I've read on a top travel blog that they had a huge problem with sand so that they felt sick. So I guess I must forget about that region.

After all my research it was clear that for transport in Vietnam and Cambodia, I'll have to look at other transport (our ZAR are very weak against he US$, Euro and GPD) - I wish!
And let's face it all the tour Co's are out to make money and cater for thos who earn dollars and Euros.

I'm happy with what Crellston suggested (and the few others who commented), thank you. To incorporate a hike what would you suggest, I also need suggestions on travelling from one place to the other and so on. Thanks guys/girls - I'm getting super excited now and are looking forward to your feedback and advice!

Not entirely sure what you mean by "After all my research it was clear that for transport in Vietnam and Cambodia, I'll have to look at other transport "? Anyway buses, minibuses and trains are cheap in both Cambodia. Even taxis are quite reasonable. Flying used to cheap but in common with most countries has increased significantly post covid. I appreciate the the Rand has fallen in value in recent years but, even so, I think you will find that costs on the ground compare very favourably with costs in SA.

The cheapest way to book tours is to do it in country and pay in Dong not $, £ or € - it is illegal in Vietnam to sell stuff priced in foreign currency.

You couldn't pay me to go the Sihanoukville - ruined by Chinese money, development and gangsters. Some nice beaches on the islands but not easy to get to. Frankly, after the beaches in South Africa, you will find those in both Vietnam and Cambodia a huge disappointment!

Enjoy your planning and anything we can do, just ask.

Vietnam Airlines is an EXCELLENT airline, as good as any, which I use regularly (3-4 times a year) since 15 years, including a round-trip Hanoi-Paris); PLUS, beautiful stewardesses.

Hi Crellston

My apologies; I meant the flights are pretty expensive, but as you say, the ground transport is very affordable. I haven't checked all the flight companies yet, but those I've checked, for example, Siem Reap to Sihanoukville, were half of what I paid for my return flight from ZAR to Vietnam. Thanks for your comment on Sihanoukville - I'm no longer interested in going there. Still not sure about Sapa and Mount Fansipan - now that we have more days, I'd like to have your opinion - what would you add to the Itinerary you suggested before?

We now first need to apply for a multiple entry Visa and also a Visa for Cambodia which I hope won't be a problem.

Hi Larsay,

Thanks for the info. I'll check the flight prices using Vietnam airways.

Sorry but Vietnam Airlines is not an "excellent airline". I would describe it as average at best, so don't expect too much. It is fine for short haul within Vietnam but not a patch on Emirates that you seem to be using for your flight from South Africa. We used Vietnam Airways from London to Sydney last year when our flights via Japan were cancelled last minute because of the pandemic and were very disappointed even in Premium Economy (but then, the beauty or otherwise of the cabin staff has never been a key criteria for me!)

No need to apologise Mimmiehuman. Probably just me being dense!

As far as flights are concerned, I doubt you will actually need that many. We have probably spent in excess of a year travelling around Vietnam and Cambodia and I can count on the fingers of one hand, the number of flights we have taken. Trains are a great way of travelling through Vietnam. Not luxurious by any stretch but fine in soft sleeper compartments where you have the added benefit of saving on a nights accommodation cost.

If your flights are return CT to Hanoi then you would only probably need a flight back from say Phnom Penh to Hanoi to pick up your homebound flight. A quick look on Skyscanner show direct flights in march for around $160 US and around half that with Air Asia via KL or Bangkok (but clearly that takes. few hour more)

As for where to go and what to do, this really depends upon your specific interests, all I can do is make suggestions on what I would do with that time which is necessarily my subjective opinion. other will have different priorities. sadly this forum no longer sees that much participation (for all sorts of reasons!) If you head to the Vietnam forum you will see LOT more activity and varied opinions and suggestions.

FWIW , given the time you have, I think I would not necessarily add any additional locations. The best advice I can give for SE Asia is to travel slowly - less really can be more. You will want a few days in Hanoi come what may , it is an amazing city. I would also include some sort of visit to the countryside in the north. Sapa would not be my first choice however. Having done many rural treks etc in Northern Vietnam, I think the one we did with Ethnic Travel would suit - you will find it on our blog which I linked previously . Not necessarily the easiest travel but more unspoiled, few other tourist and very rewarding.

Heading south you can largely go by overnight trains the link to seat61 that Thusdaysd posted earlier has all the info you need. Once you get to Saigon you then have options to go through the delta by land and boat or bus direct between HCMC and PP.

Anyway, off on my own travels shortly down to darkness Cornwall.

I've checked the Vietnam Airline fees from Cambodia to Vietnam and yes they're reasonable thank you.

Hi,

Eventually, we received the Visa, and I got to have some (sort of) an itinerary. Please let me know your thoughts - also, on Transport in between - any input - thanks, guys!

Over all the years, I've organized many travels, but this is the first time that I'm stuck - I mean, Peru and Turkey are both very diverse Countries - but perhaps because Vietnam is so very different to all other places (I think) - that I'm overwhelmed.

After some research about my job with little time left, I've decided on the following: I booked nothing except for the Flights to Vietnam and back. Based on Crellston's Itinerary (thanks Crellston). How would you change this itinerary? - All input is very welcome.
I might never revisit Vietnam, and because of the freezing weather in December, I'll skip the Trekking in the region.

Arrive in Hanoi on 3/12

1 Hanoi
2 SAPA (take the morning bus to SAPA) - on day 3, take the overnight train back to Hanoi.
3 Hanoi
1 Halong Bay (2 days Halong Bay Cruise)
2 Hue/Hoi An
2 Saigon

Mekong Delta

2 Ben Tre
1 Can Tho
3 Chau Doc

Boat to
2 Phnom Penh
2 Battambang (Crellston why do you recommend 2x Battambang?)
4 Siem Reap

fly back to Saigon / Ho Chi Minh
1 Saigon

before flying back to SAHi,

Eventually, we received the Visa, and I got to have some (sort of) an itinerary. Please let me know your thoughts - also, on Transport in between - any input - thanks, guys!

Over all the years, I've organized many travels, but this is the first time that I'm stuck - I mean, Peru and Turkey are both very diverse Countries - but perhaps because Vietnam is so very different to all other places (I think) - that I'm overwhelmed.

After some research about my job with little time left, I've decided on the following: I booked nothing except for the Flights to Vietnam and back. Based on Crellston's Itinerary (thanks Crellston). How would you change this itinerary? - All input is very welcome.
I might never revisit Vietnam, and because of the freezing weather in December, I'll skip the Trekking in the region.

Arrive in Hanoi on 3/12

1 Hanoi
2 SAPA (take the morning bus to SAPA) - on day 3, take the overnight train back to Hanoi.
3 Hanoi
1 Halong Bay (2 days Halong Bay Cruise)
2 Hue/Hoi An
2 Saigon

Mekong Delta

2 Ben Tre
1 Can Tho
3 Chau Doc

Boat to
2 Phnom Penh
2 Battambang (Crellston why do you recommend 2x Battambang?)
4 Siem Reap

fly back to Saigon / Ho Chi Minh
1 Saigon

before flying back to SA