Train questions
 

I'm very confused...I've researched, but am having very little luck getting specific answers. I appreciate any help you can give me.
First, I will need 4 tickets, and I want first class on 3 of the 4. It's actually a little more expensive to go with JR pass, so I want to buy 4 different tickets. I'm going during Golden Week, so I would love to get the tickets and reserved seats before I leave.
So, I have lots of questions about this.
First, is it possible to get the tickets (not the pass) before I leave the US? If so, would you direct me to a website that can handle this?
Second, if it isn't, can I get all 4 tickets at the train ticket office in the station? (Or better, at Narita airport)?
Third, when I do get the tickets, can I request a seat assignment? I am afraid with it being a very popular time of year, I will be stuck standing for a couple of hours.
And finally (fourth) once I have the ticket(s), I can probably figure out the platform and the gate, etc. But I read something about having to stand in line. Having traveled only on Amtrak and European trains, this is something I'm inexperienced at and I would like to clarify. I know there's a painted section on the floor where the train will ultimately arrive. On the ticket, I'll see a train # and a compartment #? Then I find the painted section for the compartment # and stand in line? Do I need to do that if I have a seat assignment, too?
Thank you so much in advance!
Felicia

Recommend reading this: https://www.seat61.com/Japan.htm

Thank you, but that's one of the websites I looked at, and it doesn't answer the specific questions I have. As a matter of fact, they highly encourage the JR Pass, which if even I got doesn't answer the other questions. I appreciate your reply, but as many things they put out there, it doesn't answer my questions.

Really? You actually read it? Because it doesn't seem like it.

How to buy train tickets, both at home and in-country, right at the beginning: https://www.seat61.com/Japan.htm#How_to_buy_tickets

Also: "Tickets for the reserved cars cost a little more but come with a allocated seat so you're sure of somewhere to sit. Green cars are always reserved so tickets always come with an allocated seat. " From: https://www.seat61.com/Japan.htm#class

Getting to your train and seat:
https://www.seat61.com/Japan.htm#Travel_tips

And yes, you stand in line even with a reservation so that boarding goes quickly and smoothly.

At the risk of getting slammed for not providing information in the precise way that you think most useful, here's another resource:
https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2019.html

First of all, the JR passes are rarely worth the money, unless you are moving around quickly. I always check the math, and have never found it to be cheaper than individual tickets, so your calculations are not surprising to me.

Thursdays and kja have already sent you links to answer your questions, but I would like to offer some reassurance about train travel in Japan. There are lots of employees at the train stations, and the locals are extremely helpful in directing you to the correct carriage. I typically keep my ticket securely in my hand, and if I'm not sure where to go, I simply flash the ticket to whoever is nearby. Everyone in Japan loves to help foreigners, you will be pleasantly surprised. Also, the so called lines are extremely orderly. There are footprints on the ground where you are to stand. There is no pushing or shoving. In fact, you will most likely be ushered to the front of the line, as an honored guest.

Regarding seats, I would sit in the very first row, if that is an option. The reason is, there is more space there (think airline bulkhead seats), and you can keep your luggage there with you. Otherwise, you will have to put it in the back of the carriage, or in the high racks above the seats.

Lastly, do not throw away your ticket until you have exited the train station. On our first trip to Japan, I was surprised that someone actually wanted to see our tickets when leaving. I'm not sure why.

fyi, concerning luggage on some shinkansen trains, new rules came into effect a few months ago about what sizes are allowed, see this link:
https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2274.html#news

A generalisation that is simply not true. It may be true in your case but in general it most definitely is not. You just do the arithmetic, tweak your schedule if appropriate and make a decision. It appears the OP has already done that.

For the OP, the one thing you haven’t said is where you’re going and when (time frame). Without that information, it’s hard to provide meaningful advice. You state that on 3 of the 4 journeys, you want ‘first class’ - why?

Um, tt7, what a shameless misquoting of the post to which you responded. This is the full paragraph of the half-sentence you selectively quoted:

EVERYONE in this thread -- including the post to which you responded -- is saying the exact same thing: that the pass is worth the money if you move around a lot, that the pass is not worth the money if you don't move around a lot, and that one should do the math based on the trip s/he wants to take.

You and CaliforniaLady are saying the exact same thing. The generalization that you quoted (that the passes are rarely worth the money) is immediately followed by: (1) a caveat that tells when the generalization is not true (i.e., when one is moving around a lot); and (2) information about how to apply the generalization (i.e., do the math for your individual trip). Unfortunately, you deliberately decided to only quote half of the first sentence of the entire paragraph.

tt7, not sure why you felt the need to pick a fight to make yourself look smart and others look bad!

I was about to scold tt7 for misquoting me, but LAX did it much more eloquently than I. tt7 - I accept your apology in advance, and please edit your post to remove the fake news.

Scold all you like. Your statement that “JR Passes are rarely worth the money” is simply wrong. Yes, of course you have to do the arithmetic but that doesn’t make your inaccurate statement any truer. If anybody needs to edit their post, it’s you.

I didn’t misquote anybody and I certainly didn’t pick a fight .... though that seems to be what you want to do.

Yes, I did. Although I'll admit you did have me second guessing myself, because I did read a lot of stuff prior to coming to this website, where I figured I could get the answers.

I went back just now and read it again. While this website does answer some questions, I'm not sure it answers mine. For instance, it states you can buy mainline tickets (I assume that refers to non-JR pass tickets) thru Voyagin, but it says Shinkhansen tickets thru them, and some of the routes I want are not Shinkhansen. Thus, we are back to my original question.

Then I read a little further, and I see I can buy all 4 of my tickets from one place in the station. Can I buy at Narita, too? I wasn't sure.
Also, I'm still not sure if I wait, can I get the tickets, since it states that there are plenty of seats unless you go during a busy time, and I AM in fact going during a busy time. So that question isn't answered to my satisfaction either.
Next, that website does tell you how to purchase a ticket from the machine, but it doesn't say if you can purchase a specific seat. Since I do not want to stand for 1 hr or longer, I do want a seat.

But I see your answer that YES I will have an allocated seat on reserved cars; however, if I buy the ticket at the station the day of travel, well I'm not really reserving a car, I'm just buying a ticket.

Let's pretend I'm 9 years old. I've traveled to over 100 countries and to all the states in the US, so I'm not totally inept, but this has me second guessing a lot.

Thank you for sending me the information that you sent.
Felicia

Thank you, Kja.....I never slammed you or anyone and appreciate ALL the help I can get. :)
Felicia

Californialady - thank you for the reassurance! I have been worried, but it sounds like you don't think that's necessary. Also, I was surprised and checked myself several times, but on Hyperdia, the rates are less expensive to get individual tickets than the pass, like you said happens sometimes. Thanks again.

Thanks - this is helpful. I am going to have a carryon and a small backpack the whole time, so I'm good. That's the best when you're traveling alone, IMO.

I'm going from Tokyo to Takayama, then from Takayama to Kyoto and then to Kobe then back to Tokyo. And this is 3rd week of April thru 1st wk of May. You want to know why do I want 1st class on only 3 of the 4 journeys? Or why do I want it at all? Since I'm not sure what you're asking, I'll answer both. I don't want to pay for 1st class on the short train journey. Just saving a bit of money on that. But I want 1st class so I can be guaranteed a seat assignment on the others. Am I not thinking correctly? Let me know. Thanks.

Firstly, you cannot buy tickets more than one month in advance. There is no need to buy tickets from sites such as Voyagin as they are not doing anything that you can't do for yourself once you get to Japan. They may purport to sell you a Shinkansen ticket now for a journey in April but all they are doing is sitting on your money for a few months until tickets go on sale (and charging you a premium for the privilege).

Although late April, early May is a 'busy' time of year, the only part of it you need to have any concerns about is Golden Week, which in 2020 is April 29 to May 5. That said, I wouldn't anticipate that you would have any great trouble getting tickets/seats. Trains are frequent (there are 150+ Shinkansens daily between Tokyo and Kyoto...) and so, provided you have some flexibility as to the precise time you travel, you shouldn't have any issues if you get tickets in advance.

Long-distance trains in Japan are comfortable. On the Tokaido Shinkansen line between Tokyo and Kyoto (and beyond), the seats in the regular carriages are in a 3 x 2 configuration. The seats are similar to airline economy seats but have much, much better legroom. We have only ever travelled in the regular cars and have never felt the need to sit in the Green (first class) car. Those seats are 2 x 2 so, yes, they're a bit nicer but .... I would save your money and just use the regular cars. Obviously, your call (as it's your money!) but I would stick to the regular cars unless Green car is the only way to get a seat reservation on the specific train that you want to take.

Use the website at Hyperdia to research train times. Some links -

Tokyo to Takayama. There are two ways of doing this - west to Nagoya and then north from there, or northwest to Toyama and then south from there. See the first two route outputs in the link.

Note that the fare is the total at the top of each output (¥16,120 and ¥15,190 for the first two in this example and not the fare in the column in the middle (¥8,030 or ¥8,910). That amount is just the "base fare" and doesn't include the express fee or the seat fee. Hyperdia lumps those two together and just calls them a "seat fee" - if you click on the dropdown in the "seat fee" column, you'll see that you don't save much by opting for a non-reserved seat (and note that some trains may be reserved-seats only).

Underneath each train name, you'll see a "Train timetable" and an "Interval timetable" link. Those links will give you (a) a schedule of where the train stops and when and (b) a schedule of all the trains for the day.

On the Tokaido Shinkansen line between Tokyo and Kyoto and beyond, the seats in the regular cars are designated A-B-C and D-E. The seats on the D-E side are on the Mt. Fuji side of the train (if that is of interest) both coming and going .... the seats rotate so that they are always facing forward but the train doesn't, so E is always closest to Fuji. On that line, the trains are usually 16 cars, probably 3 Green cars, 3 unreserved cars and the rest regular cars. Car 1, Row 1 is at the front heading west (and Car 16, Row 20 at the back, if it's a regular car) ... and vice versa heading east.

Takayama to Kyoto. Back down south to Nagoya and then from there to Kyoto is the obvious way. However, you could also go back north to Toyama and from there to Kyoto via Kanazawa. Kanazawa is certainly worth a couple of days if time permits. In Kanazawa, don't miss Kenrokuen.

Kyoto to Kobe. In this link, you might wonder "where's the Shinkansen?" It's here - Kyoto to Shin-Kobe. Like Osaka (Shin-Osaka), the Shinkansen stops at Shin-Kobe and not Kobe.

Shin-Kobe to Tokyo. You haven't said how long you're spending in each place but if time permits, Himeji is worth a day trip.

You can get all the tickets when you get to Japan. Have screenshots (or printouts) from Hyperdia showing the trains you want and just show them to the ticket office staff. Finding your way is usually straightforward - platforms are well-marked and there's lots of English signage. If all else fails, just stand there looking like a clueless gaijin and it won't be long before someone offers to help (and unlike many countries where you'd be wary of anybody offering to "help" you, we've always found these offers genuine - Japanese people will often go out of their way to help, including taking you to where you're trying to go).

to the op - You're welcome. I'm sure you will have no trouble navigating the train system. Before our first trip to Japan, I called the local JNTO office in Los Angeles, and had the kind ladies help me determine if a JR pass was worth the money. They showed me how to make a comparison, and when the comparison proved that I should purchase individual tickets, one of them actually said to me. "JR Passes are only worth it if you make around alot."

tt7 - Many of us have been posting on the various Asia boards for years, and we try to be kind to one another. We all have made mistakes, including myself, but the right thing to do is act classy and apologize. Your behavior is detracting from the OP's questions. Where I was educated, we were taught early not to take part of a sentence out of context. That's the purpose of a paragraph, actually, to build on a thought. I hope that helps to explain to you how English Composition 1A works.

Felicia - whatever you decide about a JR Pass, be sure to get an IC card -- a prepaid card you can use to pay for local trains (JR and non-JR), subway, buses, and at convenience stores, supermarkets, some cafes, restaurants, vending machines, and left luggage lockers. It makes life much, much easier - no having to stop to get a ticket or figure out how much the fare is every time you want to jump on the subway or a bus. It also saves you from getting pockets full of change. If you arrive at Narita, you can either get a Suica or a Pasmo card. Suica is issued by JR East and Pasmo by the non-JR train companies and subways in Tokyo. They're effectively interchangeable so it doesn't really matter which one you get. If you have an iPhone 8 or later, you can add a Suica to Apple Wallet and top it up with any card you have in Apple Pay. If you get a physical card, purchase it at a ticket office or designated ticket machine and top it up at ticket machines or convenience stores - purchase and top up is cash only. You can use it in most major cities in Japan.

The four train journeys you're proposing (Tokyo-Takayama, Takayama-Kyoto, Kyoto-Kobe, Kobe-Tokyo) will cost about ¥45,000 so, as you've already concluded, a nationwide JR Pass is probably not going to be cost-effective if you do those trips over a three week period. [7 day Pass is ¥29,650, 14 days ¥47,250, 21 days ¥60,450.] You don't say how long you're planning to stay in each location and whether you're planning to do any day trips (particularly from Tokyo and Kyoto) but, if you do, they can often make the Pass worthwhile. Given how efficient the Japanese train system is, you can do day trips to relatively distant places. For example, if it's of interest, you can do a day trip to Hiroshima. Take the 7.20 am Shinkansen from Kyoto and you'll be in Hiroshima by 9.05. That trip is ¥11,500 each way, so adding that one-day trip to your itinerary immediately makes a 21 day Pass worthwhile. That same Shinkansen will also get you to Himeji in 44 minutes, a journey that otherwise would cost (on that train) ¥5,570 each way. You can also use the Pass between Narita Airport and Tokyo on the Narita Express (NEX), which is otherwise ¥3,270 each way. Add in a few selected day trips and suddenly the JR Pass arithmetic changes.

In addition to the nationwide JR pass, there are also a variety of regional JR passes. Some of these may be of interest to you, depending on your timing and any day trips you decide to take. Look at the Hokuriku Arch Pass - a 7 day Pass for ¥24,440 that could be used to get you from Narita to Tokyo to Inotani (which is most of the way to Takayama) via Toyama, then on to Kanazawa and Kyoto (and also Kobe ...) .... though that portion may not fit within the 7 days. The Takayama-Hokuriku Area Tourist Pass - 5 days for ¥14,260 would get you from Nagoya up to Takayama and then on to Toyama, Kanazawa and Kyoto. Although Nagoya is primarily a commercial city, if you go to Takayama via Nagoya it may be worth a stop; the Tokugawa Art Museum (and its adjacent gardens) are worth a visit. Look also at the JR Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass. You don't want to 'force fit' your itinerary to fit any particular pass but if visiting some of these other places, if only for a day, is of interest then some of these passes can be cost-effective.

I suggest that when you arrive at Narita, you get your luggage, then go down to the level where there is a JR station. The line may look really long, but it will move fast. These agents all speak English, and if you have the trip and the dates written down, they will a) tell you if there is a pass that can save you money and B) help you purchased or reserve your seats. (You do not need green car to have reserved seats.) You can get a JR Pass or a regional pass there. I am too lazy to figure out which pass will work for me while I'm home, but I do like it if a pass comes close to equal with individual tickets, mainly because they offer a lot of flexibility if you get an urge to take a sudden day trip, for example, and regional passes often include local trains and buses- you can just jump on and jump off without needing to figure out the system.

During Golden week, you can usually get tickets, if not on your first choice train, you'll get on another. However, golden week+ japan being a "hot destination" + Olympics = more people on trains. I'd definitely get reservations/tickets when first arriving in Japan, not counting on same day purchases. Most times, if you want to change an already paid ticket for another, there is no charge, or only a tiny change fee.
The lines to get on the train are painted on the platform. Make sure you are looking at the lines for your specific train. Do not join the line until your train shows up on the overhead electronic signs. Since the trains run so efficiently, you man end up getting on the wrong train if you are in line too soon! If you are unsure, ask a station employee or a mother with a baby stroller. They both tend to be knowledgeable and kind!

On warning to my above advice: If the lines in JR Narita are super long, and if you are using a pass, they will only book one or two trips for you . You can finish the reserving in Tokyo or your next destination.

TT7 - wow, you're amazing! Thank you for this in-depth reply. I AM going during Golden Week. I suppose it's the only thing I'm concerned about - getting a seat on a train. I will deal with it, I guess. I'll be in Japan, after all! Sometimes the best times are when things work differently than you intended.
Only one question from what you said. I'm going from Kobe to Tokyo. Which side of the train should I sit in for views of Mt. Fuji?
Thank you again. MOST helpful!

CaliforniaLady - what a brilliant idea! I never even thought about calling the local office in the US! I'm doing that tomorrow. Thank you again.

tt7- once again, thank you. One question about the Suica card. If I have money left on it at the end of the trip, can I get the cash back and if so, how do I do that?
Thanks.

Lcuy- thank you. Great tips. And you answered a few of my questions. I will have time when I arrive in Narita, because my train doesn't leave til the next day and I am sleeping at the capsule hotel in the airport. Just for that first night, then when back in Tokyo, I'm there 4 nights. I'm most relieved that I can get all the tickets on the first day. I'm clarifying that you said that. Right? I'm also glad I don't have to have green class/business to get a seat assignment. Thank you again.

osnabuluru - Regarding my suggestion about calling the JNTO office, please only call the one in Los Angeles. I tried calling the one in New York, a couple of times, and they are not as helpful. For my last trip, the Los Angeles ladies gave me countless suggestions, and critiqued my itinerary via email. Between them and the Japan Guide site that kja always recommends, I put together a wonderful itinerary.

Yes … no …. maybe.

If you have an iPhone 8 or later and load a virtual Suica card in Apple Wallet, the practical answer is probably no. AFAIK, getting a refund requires that the Suica be registered and that you have a Japanese bank account - so for most of us, that latter requirement makes it a non-starter. However, it’s not an issue if you plan to go back to Japan anytime soon - just save the balance for next time.

The regular Suica requires a ¥500 deposit and you can get that back plus any unspent balance minus a ¥220 handling fee. However, you can only get a refund from the entity that issued it. Thus if you get a Suica from JR East in the Tokyo area, you can only get a refund from JR East. You can’t, for example, get a refund in Kyoto because that’s JR West not JR East. Same for an ICOCA card acquired from JR West in Kyoto - no refund from JR East in Tokyo. Another quirk in this is if you get a Suica at Haneda Airport, it’s actually issued by Tokyo Monorail and not JR East, who don’t provide service to Haneda, so you have to get any refund from Tokyo Monorail. There are, I believe (never actually seen them personally) Suica refund machines at Narita Airport - I don’t know whether they exist at Haneda. If you’re flying in and out of Narita, you can get any refund there (either at a machine, if you can find one or at the JR ticket office).

As from September 2019, there is also a tourist “Welcome Suica” that is valid for 28 days (a regular Suica card is valid for 10 years after it was last used). The Welcome Suica requires no deposit (good) but does not allow for any refund of any unspent balance (bad).

In all these situations, keep an eye on the balance and don’t load too much on the card, particularly towards the end of your trip. The maximum you can load on a Suica card is ¥20,000. Each time you use the card at a train station or subway gate, the gate display will show you the fare charged and the balance on the card. If you use it at a convenience store or cafe etc, the receipt will show you the balance on the card. You can also get a print out of the balance and recent transactions at a ticket machine. If you have the virtual card in Apple Wallet, you can check the balance at any time by looking at the card in Apple Wallet. If all else fails, just go to a convenience store (7-Eleven etc.) and spend it!

I guess I need to familiarize myself with the map.

I'm calling them in a minute. Thanks for the additional tip.

Thanks. I'll look forward to the excuse of spending. <G>

Felicia:

I have just returned from Japan, and can only speak to the Narita to Takayama portion of your trip. We have been to Japan a few time (have traveled mostly to Europe, like you), but this was the first time that we traveled by train in Japan on our own, so we were nervous. I can tell you that the Japanese are incredibly helpful--one young man even walked us to where we needed to go. You will take the Narita Express to get from the airport to Tokyo. The trickiest part of the trip was once we got off the Narita Express. There is quite a convoluted walk to change stations get to the "bullet train" (Hikari Shinkansen) from Tokyo (on the Hyperdia website the station may be listed as Shinagawa, where we got off, or some other station in Tokyo) to Nagoya. Just give yourself enough time to do this, since like us, this will be your first time. We only had 33 minutes and made it by less than a minute with the help of three separate people (including a station employee who pointed the way and told us to "hurry up"!). Once in Nagoya, you will take a local train to Takayama.

We were in Japan for the 1st time in Sept/October. I was nervous about the trains, mostly making connections. I wish for a couple of trains I booked that I had allowed more than the time I had, which was maybe 6-9 minutes or less. Some stations are easy to navigate and others not so easy. Sometimes we had to go up or downstairs and across the terminal to get to the connecting train. As noted the staff and other passengers are very helpful. But that means you have to stop, show them your ticket and wait for a response. All that takes time. One train staff person actually sent us to the wrong track, which luckily I managed to catch before we ran over to the wrong train track. Once you feel comfortable and not as uncertain, it still takes time. We didn't miss any connections, but we sure ran like he!!

I'm not sure I understand. The Tokaido line Shinkansens (to Nagoya, Kyoto and beyond) originate at Tokyo Station, then stop at Shinagawa Station and then Shin-Yokohama Station. I'm unclear on why you would "change stations"? If you're coming from Narita, then you could take the Narita Express to Tokyo Station and get the Shinkansen there or you could take the Narita Express to Shinagawa Station and transfer to the Shinkansen there. As a practical matter, it's the same train -- the Narita Express goes to Tokyo Station and then splits, with one part going to Shinagawa and the other part going to Shibuya and Shinjuku. It's probably easier to go to Shinagawa, simply because the Narita Express arrives down in the bowels of Tokyo Station and it's a bit convoluted to get from there to the Shinkansen platforms. It may feel like you're changing stations but it's all one station. That said, the Shinkansen platforms usually have their own ticket gates so you probably "exit" the regular train gates and "enter" the Shinkansen gates. Of the two stations (Tokyo and Shinagawa), Shinagawa is almost certainly the easier to navigate (particular for the novice) so it makes sense to take the NEX to Shinagawa (via Tokyo) and get the Shinkansen there.

If you're coming from Haneda, you have two choices. Either take the monorail to Hamamatsucho and change to the JR Yamanote line -- either three stops north to Tokyo Station or two stops south to Shinagawa Station or (easier and quicker) take the Keikyu line to Shinagawa.

...
So, I have lots of questions about this.
First, is it possible to get the tickets (not the pass) before I leave the US? If so, would you direct me to a website that can handle this?

>> I won't help with this.

Second, if it isn't, can I get all 4 tickets at the train ticket office in the station? (Or better, at Narita airport)?

>> Yes and yes. That is what JR Ticket Offices and Travel Service Centers do, including at JR Narita Airport station. They sell tickets for future dates, not just on the day of travel. They sell tickets for travel between any two stations in Japan, not just for travel from the station where the tickets are sold. You might be better off going to the Travel Service Center, if one is available.

Third, when I do get the tickets, can I request a seat assignment?

>> Yes. And, if the reserved seats are sold out then you can have them look for avalable seats on a later (or earlier) train. From Utsunomiya to Tokyo the train leaving in 20 minuts had only center seats, so I asked the JR lady to check the next train. I only had to wait an extra 14 minutes to get an aisle seat on that train.

I am afraid with it being a very popular time of year, I will be stuck standing for a couple of hours.
>> I know. Don't be afraid: this is Japan. Be flexible. Be patient. Be k.ind. But you don't have to be afraid

And finally (fourth) once I have the ticket(s), I can probably figure out the platform and the gate, etc. But I read something about having to stand in line. Having traveled only on Amtrak and European trains, this is something I'm inexperienced at and I would like to clarify. I know there's a painted section on the floor where the train will ultimately arrive. On the ticket, I'll see a train # and a compartment #?

>> Your reserved seat ticket will indicate the Car and Seat to which you are assigned. There aren't any compartments. If it turns out that you are standing in front of the wrong car, that is ok. Just board the train and make your way to the correct car.

Then I find the painted section for the compartment # and stand in line? Do I need to do that if I have a seat assignment, too?

>>Yes (for the car, not compartment) and yes. Signs on the car indicate if the car is resercved or unreserved.

Thank you so much in advance!
>>yw

Burta- thank you so much! This is SO helpful. I may book 2 one-ways, to allow time to make that connection. I guess once you've done it, you know where to go and it's easier. Thanks again.

Yestravel - at least it's not like Indian trains or some flights where you have to worry that the first one will be late! Thank you for this information. I'll be sure to allow a lot of time.