Train Fares in Japan
 

As it stands now, we have the following train rides during our October-November stay in Japan:
1. Narita Airport to Shinjuku Station (we might take the limo bus, though).
2. Kanazawa to Kaga Onsen (25 minutes direct to the town where Beniya Mukayu, our ryokan is located)
3. Kaga Onsen to Kyoto (1 hour, 50 minutes)
4. Kyoto - Nara - Kyoto day trip (Kintetsu line - 35 minutes each way, if we don't stop at Fushimi-Inari Temple or visit a sake brewery along the way)

So, in reviewing the Hyperdia website and the Japan-guide one as well, I see that we can do unreserved seats (presumably purchased at the station), reserved seats (in advance, at additional cost) and Green seats (1st class, also reserved in advance at additional cost).

For my itinerary, what do you recommend?

jeane deserves 1st class...

Craig, does this mean you are flying to Kanazawa rather than taking the train? Are you taking your luggage with you on the train or using the forwarding service? (I love that you are asking these questions, since the answers will inform some of our planning as well).

Green car gives you more leg room and usually a car with far fewer passengers. However, the regular car gives you decent leg room. So, it's obviously nicer to travel in the green car, but the difference between Reular/Green is nothing near the difference between, say, int'l Economy/Business on an airplane.

Thanks, Don. I am most interested in whether advance reservations/reserved seats are needed or not on these routes.

Kathie, with Kimjapan's help we are flying to the rural Noto peninsula from Tokyo and renting a car. After a night at a place known for great food, we drive to Kanazawa. From there we take the train to our ryokan for another night and then continue on to Kyoto by train again. We are forwarding our bags from Tokyo to Kanazawa and from Kanazawa to Kyoto.

Craig, for legs 1 and 4, advance reservations are not needed. Think of Narita to Shinjuku as a suburban commuter line that we see in major American cities (e.g. NY's Metro North) and the Kintetsu line between Kyoto and Nara is a subway line.

I have no experience with the other two legs, but advanced reservations / reserved seats are mostly for high-traffic long distance journeys to ensure that you get a seat (e.g. Tokyo-Kyoto).

You make your seat reservations when you buy your tickets. Advanced seat reservations are possible 60 days in advance iirc but not possible from outside of Japan. All that said don't worry,you will get a seat. Answers to your direct questions:

1. If taking the NE'X you buy your tickets and make your seat reservation from the JR ticket booth or "Midori-no-madoguchi" ;)
http://www.jreast.co.jp/e/customer_s...ce_center.html

Buy the Nex/Suica deal so you can get a suica card for use in the Tokyo Metro and throughout Japan.
http://www.jreast.co.jp/e/suica-nex/index.html

While buying your NEX tickets you can also get your other train reservations and tickets at the same time....just take your time, no problem. I usually print out the schedule I want off of hyperdia.com and that helps in making reservations. With your schedule though you really don't need to make reservations ahead of time except maybe the Kaga-Kyoto route.

2. Make your res and buy a ticket the day before travel or at the station just before travel

3. ditto #2

4. don't think there are reserved seats on these trains....maybe the direct express train might but either way just go to the station before your times and buy ticket.
If you get off at Inari just go back to the station after your done and get on the next train back to Kyoto after buying a ticket either at the machine or ticket booth

Just realized you won't be riding a shinkansen :(. Maybe next time....

Aloha!

My husband is 6 foot 6 inches tall and we always found the legroom very spacious in the regular class seats, so I know I'd definitely not bother with green.

Because we got a Japan Rail pass, reservations were free. (I printed the full list of exact routes and times we wanted to do and had the whole lot of reservations made when we picked up our passes on arrival at Narita).

We only once decided to take a different time train (and popped into the office on arrival at the station to give them back the reservations for the later train we'd booked, so they could cancel them / give to someone else). On that occasion there was plenty of space for us in the unreserved coach.

I guess it would depend on whether it's a route with many trains a day, whether it's high season or some special holiday... but I'm guessing you'd most commonly find a seat without problem.

So if we take the N'EX to Shinjuku, do we change trains at Shinagawa? Easy to do?

Suica/N'EX deal sounds really good.

Looks like a stop at Inari requires taking the "local" JR line - 69 minutes from Nara...

> So if we take the N'EX to Shinjuku, do we change trains at Shinagawa?

Nope, no change needed. The NEx has 12 cars (sometimes 8) leaving NRT. At Tokyo, the train splits in half. All seats on NEx are reserved - just be sure that you're in your assigned car when you leave Narita.

This all sounds very confusing...Glad my travel consultant is handling all of this.

Omg my head hurts just reading this thread........ I am sure I will get lost/ confused when we do our train travel.......

I thought I was making it simpler for you all....guess not. Lost in translation maybe? ;)

Craig,
Here is more to confuse you. I assume you got the train schedules from the hyperdia.com site. Nara has two stations and two rail lines from Kyoto. The JR line and the Kintetsu line. Travelers with a JR pass would use the JR line while people without passes would take either line. The two rail stations in Nara are the Kintetsunara station and the Nara station(JR). Both are about two blocks from each other in Nara.

You mention using the Kintetsu line per Kim's excellent suggestion. You can check the trains schedules by first putting in your from and to city info in on hyperdia.com When your information pops up you can press the "interval timetable" next to the little picture of the train and all times/stops/schedules for that day and route are listed. You can then see which Kintetsu trains stop at Fushimi or which JR trains stop at Inari that day.

You could also take the express from Nara to Kyoto then hop on the local heading back to Fushimi/Inari as its only two stops away from Kyoto station.....maybe twelve walking blocks. If your pressed for time or the return local is say twenty minutes wait then just take a taxi from Kyoto station to Fushimi/Inari station. It might make more sense to take a taxi back for two people depending on the rail fare. The taxi fare should't be much more than ¥900.
The temple at Fushimi-inari is right across the street from the rail stations.

Smeagol, its not that hard and once you get there you'll realize how easy it really is. If you can figure out The Tube in London the Tokyo metro will be a snap. The only hard part of the learning curve is when you start your virgin travels from either Tokyo or Shinjuku stations in Tokyo. I have seen local Japanese get lost in those stations and I still have troubles because both places are continually growing and everytime I go there its something new that gets me,lol

kmkrnn, don't worry, just make sure your travel consultant has his requisite two martinis before leaving for an evening ride in the Tokyo subway systems and you should be ok.

Aloha!

I'm sure I'll eventually figure all of this out, but at this point I'm thoroughly confused. We know we will take the limo bus from Narita to our hotel in Tokyo, but after that...

Tokyo to Kanazawa by train

Kanazawa to Kyoto by train

Kyoto to Hakone by train

Hakone to Narita by train

And, in each case, we have to think about our luggage. When does it make sense to use the forwarding service vs. taking it with us. Would taking our luggage with us be easier if we used the Green Car?

And we haven't even started thinking about the subway systems.

I wish we had a travel consultant going with us!

Don, thanks for clarifying how the N'EX train works. What a relief that we don't have to change trains. My thinking is that we can lug all of our stuff onto this train and that it will be much quicker than the limo bus, since we arrive at 13:55. Also, since we are going to Shinjuku station, we do not get the benefit of door-to-door service anyway.

Thanks for that additional info, Peter. Seems we could go to the temple at Fushimi-Inari on almost any day as it is not far by either train or taxi. Incidentally, for those that are planning a trip to Nara and using Hyperdia, the station for the Kintetsu line at Nara is Kintensunara. If you just put in Nara, you will only get JR trains...

Kathie, everything about the trains and subways becomes abundantly clear once you start delving into the details, especially when you can ask questions here.

I can't believe that our trip is just 4 months away. We are so looking forward to it and to getting together with many of our fellow Fodorites.

Hi Craig, I'm sure that Peter and Don and other Japan experts will get us straightened out eventually. Reading in guidebooks and on the websites has made me more confused!

It sounds like you and Jeane pretty much have it figured out. I've been so busy I haven't done much planning yet.

Kathie et al, what I have found with my trip planing is that spending an hour or two every so often attending to the details works better than dealing with it all at once. It gives me time to reflect on what I've learned and to anticipate the adventures to come.

Good suggestion, Craig!

Traveling in Japan by train/subway is not really that difficult, just different than your regular location but everyone here seems to have traveled quite widely all over the world so I wouldn't worry at all.....

As a New Yorker I often think that many places in the world, including Japan, have a lot more staff in stations to help - here in NYC many stations no longer have token booths or clerks and there is absolutely no one to ask....other than another traveler.

Jjust a quick chime in about the Suica cards. We brought ours from last years Tokyo trip. They worked on the Fukuoka subway system for this years trip ,as well as convenience stores in Kumamoto and Kagoshima. They are a lot like a prepaid credit card and are accepted at shops, restaurants and vending machines, We loaded them up at the designated machines at various stations and kept a good balance on them. Hopefully we'll be able to hit the ground running with them when we get back to Japan :-)

<i> Incidentally, for those that are planning a trip to Nara and using Hyperdia, the station for the Kintetsu line at Nara is Kintensunara. If you just put in Nara, you will only get JR trains...</i>

This is not the case on hyperdia.com By putting in Nara as a destination from Kyoto will get you the 5 fastest routes there being private(Kintetsu) or JR rail line. If you go to the search details and click off Nozomi, airport and airport shuttle, you will get details of all lines where your search is for. Only if you click off the private line check in the search details area will the JR lines only pop up.

Kathie, it would be about time to start searching for your itinerary using hyperdia.com website. Your first search would be for a train from Shinjuku JR to Kanazawa. Click in the time you want to start your travel and voila the first 5 options pop up. From Shinjuku to Kanazawa will always be at least two train transfers but are not hard at all and pretty straightforward....something like you get off the train at track 4 from train 1 and catch the onward train 2 at track six. All very close together and very easy to do with lots of English signage. After you figure out your details on hyperdia, come back here if you have any questions. Your itinerary cities would be
1. Shinjuku JR to Kanazawa
2. Kanazawa to Kyoto
3. Kyoto to Gora
4. Gora to Narita Terminal 2 (I think thats where UA is. Check your ticket for details)

I would send my bigger suite cases from Tokyo to Kyoto and travel through Kanazawa with a 22" expandable rollie that you can easily handle on the train. Your bags will fit in the overhead rack above your seats and any coats or jackets are hung on the retractable pegs along the window walls. Then would probably send the bigger suite cases from Kyoto directly to the luggage claim at Narita terminal 2 or whatever terminal your airline will leave from. The Hyatt in Hakone will supply you with a couple of yukata per day that can be, and is worn by. most guests all around the hotel from dining rooms to the spa and fireplace room at night. ALWAYS wear your yukata when going to the fireplace room especially at night and the free drinks/hors. Your clothes come out of there after a couple of hours smelling like wood so save your clothes and use theirs. I think there are maybe 3 or 4 of your sizes(they check at check in)of each for each person in the room everyday. If you run out, just ask for more. You cannot and should not wear yukata outside of the Hyatt Hakone.

I agree with kalihiwai about the SUICA card. They are good for 10 years after your last refill. I have had one for the past 4 or 5 years now. They only use to work in Northern Japan but recently as kalihi mentions, has gone nationwide. You can pay for food or whatever you are buying at 7-11's, Lawson's and most stores in all JR stations nationwide. If you see the SUICA logo next to the VISA and other logos at the cash register then you know this vendor will take your SUICA card for payment. Vending machines nationwide will take your SUICA with a simple swipe. And vending machines are a HUGE part of life in Japan as you are all about to find out.
Also nothing easier when taking the subways and trains as you swipe your SUICA card at the entrance and swipe when exiting the gates and it automatically deducts fare from your card without you having to figure out a thing. Same with buses that take SUICA, swipe at the back door when you enter then swipe at front door as you leave the bus.....easy peazzy.

Aloha!

Ho Peter, thanks for the info. I was unable to get hyperdia to give me the info from Shinjuku to Kanazawa over the weekend, but I'll try again, I must have been doing something wrong. Ah, I did get it to work this time!

I'll work on this and be back with more questions. Thank you for your help, Peter!

Good info on using the SUICA card...

Peter, you are correct. Entering Nara and Kyoto on Hyperdia does bring up the private line. However, the search result instructs you to walk between Nara and Kintetsu stations (or vise versa) to get to your destination. This happens whether or not JR is unchecked. I think this might be confusing to those that don't realize that the two stations are fairly close to one another.

Hi Craig,

Do you know the Japan Rail Pass? Actually you can travel freely including JR Shinkansen train no more extra charge, throughout Japan, (!)Adult $282(US dollars) valid for 7 days. you can go anywhere in Japan, limitless use during the period. They also offer 14 days and 21 days, and child fares as well. Check it out.

http://www.jrpassonline.com/howtobuy.html

Craig,

If using hyperdia.com and wanting only JR line trains, then un-check the "Private Railway" box in the "search details" section and private lines like Kintetsu are not shown. I always un-check the airport, airport shuttle bus and nozomi options when starting a search and when I have a JR rail pass, unless of course when checking trains to and from the airport.

JR trains, though prevalent and you might say dominant in all areas of Japan, are not the best mode of transport <b>within</b> the Kansai region of Japan. Here the private rail lines like Kintetsu, Hankyu and Hanshin fight for dominance over the JR behemoth and are actually the more convenient and comfortable way to travel by <b>rail/subway/bus</b> within this region of the country and if not just whizzing by on that JR shinkansen.

Aloha!

Of course you can ride on Narita-Tokyo as it is JR and local trains in Tokyo, and Tokyo-Kyoto bullet train (Shinkansen), Nara as well, and return, too. You do not need to purchase any suika or jr local ticket including shinkansen bullet train's special express charge neither. all inclusive, and limitless. this pass is only available for people who visit Japan for sightseeing/short visit, so people from overseas who want to explore Japan have maximum benefit. Actually someone who is Japanese but have a family overseas, holding permanent regidency overseas is also eligible for this passport. www.jrpassonline.com/hottobuy.html
Japan Rail Pass has been around for many years.

Actually to go/back to/from Kyoto-Nara, Kintesu line is very convenient. Their fair is also reasonable, too.

From JR Kyoto station to Fushimi Inari, you can take a bus, acutually it takes 20 min. depending how busy the road is. Actually it only takes 10 min from Kyoto station to Fushimi Inari by car, normally. You can also find a local Keihan train, get off Fushimi Inari station, too.

Kathie, expecting a slew of questions after you research the Kyoto to Gora or if your adventurous Kamigora.....looks difficult but actually very scenic and ...easy peazzy ;)

There is one more thing. Normally it depends on the budget, too. normal seat (non-reserved, called 'Jiyuu (meaning Freedom)seki\(seat)' is the cheapest and you just pop into the specified cars and sit down, you don't pay reserved seat fee. Reserved seat (shiteiseki) is, you can reserve the seat, but the downside is, it is fine if the train is congested, and you want to get the guaranteed seat, but you have to book the train (you can do it just before you get to the train at the local train station though), you have to specify the time. Good point of 'freedom seat (non-reserved seat)' cars are, you can just step in whatever the available train is coming to the platform. You can't do this if you have a reserved train ticket.
Green cars- I don't think it is worth it. It is not that special, normally politicians and business executives are using this seat, but just extra wide, and not so much difference.

Craig, Narita airport train towars tokyo- as they use their own Keiyo sen line, You have to get off the train to Tokyo station, as the line ends at Tokyo station.
If you want to go to shinjuku, you have to change the train at Tokyo station to the local JR- which is the orange line (Chu-ou sen,) to Shinjuku.

Airport train's line is on the track of Chiba-Tokyo line which is independent from Tokyo's internal local JR lines.

One suggestion about the luggage thing- you can send off the luggage via courier from your hotel to the next hotel, their courier service is excellent (does not go wrong) and very punctual. You can send off the day before, and you can receive the next day morning (you have to specify, and make sure if it is available at the time.), you can just write down the next hotel name, address, phone number, and your name and check-in date. If you bother carrying around any big stuff, this way is very recommended.

Yes JR recently announced their Easten JR issued suica should be able to use the western area, but there are some reports actually some lines around Osaka-Kyoto-Nara are not able to use suica at all. You have to be careful about it. Some people also got stuck as some local, rural lines' stations are not available in the different area (not Tokyo area). If you spend a lot of time in Tokyo, Suica is fine.

Hi Peter, I've now looked at all of the segments... wow. I find all of the different rail lines very confusing. (though I understand better why you don't recommend the JR pass for our trip!) The only really easy one is Kanazawa to Kyoto - no transfers! All of the others require 2 or 3 transfers.

Any general guidelines for which routings to choose (other then trying to minimize transfers)? I do note that we will be on a bullet train for part of our journey to Kanazawa.

You should take what Lucy is saying with a grain of salt. Yes you can transfer at Tokyo station to the Chuo express which is a direct line to Shinjuku from Tokyo station but is not the way the NE'X travels. Don has it right, the train splits in Tokyo station. I have done the NE'X route to Yokohama and that is exactly what our train did(the split in Tokyo station)

Kathie, I will answer your questions when I have a little more time

Aloha!

Peter, Lucy seems to be new to the forum and has not posted on any other threads. While she is enthusiastic and attempting to be helpful, I did notice the error regarding the NE'X line to Shinjuku...

Peter, I'm going to make a separate post - which I should have done earlier - to ask my train questions.

Craig, thanks for letting me piggy-back on your thread.

Actually I've used Nex line before. I'm also familiar with Tokyo station.
However, I've noticed, Craig, since I used the NE'X train, the line seems to be extended to some stations, but not all NE'X trains go to Shinjuku. Basically, all NE'X trains go to Tokyo. Anyway in case your destination from narita is shinjuku, if you don't bother carrying your luggage around, and if you want to pop in the next available NE'X train from Narita, you can do it even they don't go to Shinjuku directly. You just purchase NE'X express ticket to Tokyo, and normal ticket should be Narita-Shinjuku. As I explained, you just switch the line at Tokyo station, by orange line (Chuo line) to Shinjuku. You don't have to wait to the next available train at Narita which goes to Shinjuku, as JR Tokyo seems to have withdrawn some extended NE'X trains beyond Tokyo station recently.

I guess as long as we have reserved seats on the NE'X to Shinjuku, we would be okay?

I just finished reading that old Narita limo vs train thread, brought to the top last night. If there are lots of stairs, it will be quite difficult for us to take the train from NRT. We each usually bring a large and a small rollie plus a smaller carry-on when we travel...

http://www.jreast.co.jp/e/nex/

Above is a link to the website of JR East that runs the Narita Express. You can see the timetable as well as the layout of the stations there. Better to see for yourself than to rely on someone else's opinion imho at least.... ;-)