changnam, THAT was very well said...and truly awesome. :)

changman, let me be clear, I have visited Thailand many times, some on business, some on holiday, because its one of the most interersting countries, in many respects, that I have visited -- culture, sights, food, charm, great beaches, friendly people, etc.

But, the overt display of prostitution is off-putting, and is much more in-your-face than other countries, including elsewhere in Southeast Asia, where I have also visited many times.

And I lump in the King, as revered as he may be, because he's uniquely situated to use his moral authority to diminish the prevalance of prostitution. But, the Thai sex industry must, and this is just a guess, support thousands of people, and by allowing the sex industry to flourish, there is no need to find alternate occupations and industry.

I find the people that frequent the sex roads equally reprehensible, if not more so, but its up to the Thai government to control prostitution in their own country -- if they depend on the kindness of foreigners, its not going to go away.

And, Thailand is the only country I have visited, and I have been to most of the countries in Asia, including Southeast Asia, where taxi drivers frequently try to direct me to a brothel, including by sharing brochures with photographs of the women.

Its naive to think that the sex industry in Thailand is not more blatant than in many other countries.

So, for a first time visitor (unlike some who may have visited mulitple times and are more sensitive to Thai customs) it may not necessarily be unreasonable to conclude that topless bathing is acceptable, especially after having wandered thru a bright lights, glaring, large sex district the night before.

Its not always so easy for a stranger to divine local mores, especially when there may be contradictory messages.

And, for all of us that enjoy visiting Thailand, I'm sure we can agree (or at least I hope we'd agree) that the sex industry is out of control.

Thit Cho I understand your point of view completely.

The sex industry is out of control, in your opinion, but if you care to do your study then you wll find that there are less sex workers now then in the past. Underage and force prostitution have alomst cease to exist because of the developing economy. People from all walk of life caught with underage girls or boys are being given life sentences.

From your touristy point of view and from the information you've gathered from the taxi drivers you've seen to generalise the whole country with your own misperception. Please don't judge the whole country just because you like to frequent w

Hanuman, that's all good news and gratifying to hear.

I have not generalized the whole country, but rather tried (obviously unsuccessfully) to suggest that it may be difficult for an outsider to discern local customs, especially in a land of perceived mixed messages.

thit cho,

yes niavity is a good excuse.

Hanuman, I never suggested that naivety should be an excuse -- I, rather, suggested that there are some very mixed messages in Thailand.

I have been to more than 100 countries, and Thailand has, by far, the most blatant, disgusting sex industry.

I would suggest that the naive are those that do not recognize, or are unwilling to acknowledge, the pervasiveness of the Thai sex industry.

In your studied opinion, does Thailand have a problem with its sex industry -- is it too large, too blatant, too coercive attracting the poor from the countryside, too important so as to ward off regulation, etc.?

It is being regulated and it's against the social norm of the Thai culture. Every body realize that it's a problem but they are also realistic that the law and the enforcement of the vice laws alone is not enough to stop the oldest profession in the world. Only economic prosperity will solve this problem and when that does happen it will not totally disappear either. It's easy to criticize but do try to understand the problem and root of the problem. It's not fair for you to suggest that because there's topless prostitutes in go go bars so therefor the whole country have to accept toplessness on the Thai beaches. That's generalisation IMO!

Again, I did not suggest that topless bathing needs to be tolerated or accepted. What I suggested was that it may be difficult for an overseas visitor, in Thailand for only a very short holiday, to realize, in light of the mixed messages, that topless bathing is deemed offensive.

So in your country, where ever you're from, if there's a topless bar in your neighborhood then it's a given that public nakedness is acceptable in that neighbourhood?

Hanuman, in Thailand, we're talking about more than one topless bar. If that were the case, then I would find it laughable if a visitor decided that topless bathing was acceptable.

But, sadly, in many Thai towns and villages, we witness more than a lone topless bar. In fact, I have been to some islands where there are large districts devoted to the sex industry.

So, when Thailand is able to reduce the number of clubs and brothels to one topless bar, I will be willing to agree that its unreasonable for a visitor to conclude that topless bathing is acceptable.

Moreover, in Thailand, many of the topless bars/brothers are not discrete, but are flamboyant, with open doors and windows through which passersby can view semi-naked, seemingly comatose women dance in an attempt to attract clients. In Thailand, the sex industry is not camouflaged or hidden, but is wide open.

enough from me mate find someone else to argue your point with.

You have GOT to be kidding me, thit cho? That is the most ridiculous thing you've said so far.

Let's not mince words here: the reason foreign tourists go topless is because they WANT to, not because they get mixed signals from Thai people or culture.

This whole rant is filled with so many generalizations and gaping holes in logic that I wonder if indeed it was Thailand you visited.
It's interesting...my visits to Thailand have never left me as morally bruised as you seem to be. One wonders if you hung out in Patpong and Pattaya the whole time you were there.

So Thailand has THE most gratuitous displays of sex by far, huh? Have you ever been to the Netherlands? I've seen some pretty sick stuff there in plain view of the public. Following your logic, Dutch citizens are just utterly reprehensible then.
Better start telling tourists in Vegas that they can have sex right on the casino tables because the city is sending mixed signals.

;)

thit_cho- so, by your logic, Vegas must be full of naked tourists, same as amsterdam and other widely known areas that are similar. I don't think that's the case...

From what I've read in the past two days, the Thai people are generally conservative, but also accepting due to their religion, like a lot of Asia it seems like. Now I don't think they'd generally have a lot of child prostitutes, if it wasn't for foreigners wanting them, and certain jerks who are willing to find and sell them in such a way. It's others who wanted it, not the general Thai people.


No matter what one might see in a different country, it's always better to err on the respectful side. And to keep the bikini top on, unless you're in a place that is known to officially encourage it. Those tourists should not be allowed to stay if they have such a disrespectful attitude in someone else's country! Hate to see what they do at home...

what about speedos....don't they speak to thai sensitivites and decency also??

Bob,

I thought you told me that Gpanda had a bikini wax before adorning the Speedos - that's ok in my book.

he has it done on his face....

I don't think it's appropriate for women to bathe topless in Thailand. I find it a completely separate issue from the sex trade.

I also don't think it's appropriate for tourists to wear low-cut strappy tops and short-shorts or short skirts. Unfortunately, we saw many women dressed as such on our recent trip to Bangkok.

I meant to write "sunbathe" not "bathe"

Electrolysis is the way to go.

Plus, I can assure everyone that my speedo is modest compared to many of the suits worn by other men without mirrors. There was a guy in a thong at the Meridien in Phuket that was not offensive it was just ugly.