Thailand, Cambodia, Laos
 

My husband and I are planning a trip the last 2 weeks of December. Based on all the wonderful postings I have read on this site I have planned the trip as follows:
2 days Bkk
2 days Chiang Mai
3 days Luang Prabang
4 days Siem Reap
1 day BKK
This doesn't include the days we travel between cities and in some cases we will have an extra 1/2 as well.

I wanted to know if anyone has used Tiger Trails in either Thailand or Laos. This trekking company has a 2 or 3 day Trek around LP that sounds pretty good but there aren't a lot of reviews to go on in judging the trek itself or the accommodations (staying in tribal villages). We chose LP over CM for trekking as several of the posts on this site indicated the touristy quality around CM and the tribal villages, the lack of authenticity and LP sounded a bit less travelled. Any comments on this? Would a one day trek be sufficient and if so, any recommendations on an outfitter or guide for that?

I would like to take the boat trip on Tonle Sap - Kompong Khleang in particular - again less travelled to. Any recommendations on who to use or a better place to go?

I would like to take a cooking class in CM. Any recommendations? And visiting an elephant camp - in Thailand or Laos - which is better?

Can anyone recommend a private guide for Angkor Wat? Do we need guides any other place?

And lastly, since the Discovery Pass is unavailable during the time I will be traveling I plan on making roundtrip flights and need to know whether there are any "customs" delays when traveling between Cambodia/Thailand and Laos/Thailand so I can plan the connecting flights accordingly.

If you have any other ideas, recommendations or changes you think I should make please let me know. Again, thank you for your help in putting this together.

Sounds like a wonderful trip! Get your hotel reservations made as soon as possible, especially in Luang Prabang.

You only have 3 days in Luang Prabang and you'll want/need those three days for Luang Prabang. Yes, the area around LP is less-touristed than the area around CM. But you'll have to decide how to use your time. There are lots of travel companies right in LP. You might just want to wait until you get there to arrange for something. When we were there many years ago, it was during the Hmong New Year celebrations, and were we able to drive to a place maybe 100 yards from the celebration, walk in and interact with the Hmong who had come from villages all over Laos. We were the only visitors there. I know tourism has expanded considerably since then, but I expect you can do a day trek in the area and still get a good flavor for it.

For the elephant camp, I'd recommend the Thai Elephant Conservation Center in Lampang, not far from CM.

In terms of flights, customs inspections are nearly non-existent. Immigration/passport control may take a bit of time depending on the lines.

Any driver in Siem Reap can arrange a boat to Kompong Khleang for you, if you wish.

You don't need a guide any where, but many people like to have a guide at the Angkor Temples. You might contact Ponheary Ly or her brother, Dara to guide you. Take a look at www.theplf.org for something else you can do in/near Siem Reap.

Thanks so much Kathie for your quick response. I will contact those guides you recommended. I guess this is a busy time for the areas I will be in. Will that be a problem in waiting to sign up for a trip/cooking/elephant camp until I'm there? Other than flights and hotels is there anything I should sign up for in advance?

The minority people's villages around Luang Prabang will certainly be less visited than those around CM but will still not really not be "authentic" . To trekking somewhere less visited you will need to go to the far north around Pnongsali or Muang Sing. Absolutely woth the effort despite the lack of creature comforts but it is a long journey to get there via road and river and I doubt you have the time to make it worthwhile. I concur with Kathies suggestion that your time in LP is better spent in the town itself. I would not even bother with the trips out to Pak Ou, Kuang Si etc..

Luang Prabang is quite busy these days relative to what it was say15 years ago and there are lots of tour operators on the main street so it should be possible to book on the day if necessary. Do check them out carefully as not all are very good.

We used Chiangmai Mai Thai Cookery School last year and thought they were excellent. A link to my trip report http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...thern-thailand.
Highly recommended . You could book for the next day on arrival in CM but if you want to stay at the Chef Sompon's house, which I would thoroughly recommend, you need to book in advance. The pre booking service is very efficient and helpful.

As for "customs" delays, chances are you will not experience any problems with your proposed itinerary, but do make sure that you get ALL the stamps on your passport when entering from accross the river from Thailand. Apparently we missed one and upon leaving from LP airport we were held up for an hour whilst trying to negotiate a fine/bribe to leave. We managed to negotiate down from the $200 initially demanded to $50. We were told that the only other alternative was to go back upriver to get the correct stamp!!

You have a wonderfull trip planned. Enjoy!

The Elephant Conservation centre is excellent but does need to be booked in advance. If you care about animals, do not use elephant camps in other parts of Thailand or Laos as, in many cases, the welfare standards are appalling.

There are a million trakking outfits in LP. We'll maybe not half that many, but every other building now sells elephant, boat, bicycling, rafting and trekking trips. If you are at all into fabricks, i highly recommend the weaving and dyeing classes offered through Ock Pok Tok Weavers. They have several stores in LP, and the cooperative is down on the river. They have very nice rooms to rent, as well.

Can't say enough about Ponheary Ly. She, her family, and friends include many great guides, or just drivers if you don't want guides. They can also arrange boat tours from Kompong Khleang (or anywhere else you want to go). Their guesthouse is lovely and clean, http://www.sevencandlesguesthouse.com/, though not fancy.

You are going at the very height of the tourist season, so it's good you are making plans now.

Thank you so much crellston and lcuy for your responses and information. I enjoyed your post on the cooking school crellston and will definitely make reservations in advance. Will definitely check into Ock Pok Tol Weavers - good find, thanks!
As we will be flying from place to place I assume that any customs stamps we need will be taken care of at the airports, yes?
Has anybody stayed at the 3 Nagas in Luang Prabang? If so, please let me know how you enjoyed it. Thanks.

The customs and immigration at the airports are fine, it is the land borders where the scams tend to take place.

We stayed at the 3 Nagas twice about 5 years ago. The first time was in the annexe across the street which was ok but nothing special. When we returned we stayed in their 3 Nagas suite which overlooks the main street ans is a prime position for watching the alms procession. The room itself was very spacious full of antiques and it was a great experience staying there. I know that it has changed ownership since but it really is a great location and a superb place as it has a lot more character than many other places. The restaurant also had a great tasting menu as I recall

I assume you are coming from afar into BKK. 2 days in BKK is really not much time to see the city and consider this - you will be jet lagged that first and possibly second day. You might want to consider eliminating one destination or adding a day to BKK and dropping a day somewhere else. Four days for Angkor Wat is a long time unless you are really into temple exploration.

Thanks again Crellston. Will continue checking out 3 Nagas. Anyone familiar with Hotel de la Paix in LP? I thought staying in town would be a good idea and Hotel de la Paix is not in town although they offer transportation and it's easy enough. Is it a bad idea to stay out of town?

I agree with you BillT. I was thinking of dropping a day from Angkor Wat and adding another one to BKK. My problem is that we are arriving on Fri early evening into BKK and although we will be jet lagged, I am thinking of leaving on Sun morning for CM to catch the walking market on Sunday. And spend the final 3 days in BKK on the back end. Does that make sense? Is the CM walking market worth it? Please let me know if anyone has an opinion on this. Thanks again for all your help. Love this forum!

Sounds fine- but make sure you hit the weekend market in BKK- its the mother of all markets- 10-15,000 stalls and has everything under the sun. Take the MRT as it will put you right inside the market. And bargain!

The walking market has grown exponentially in recent years and is a nice, if very crowded, experience. However, I would not buy anything there as the prices are high for CM and better quality can be had elswhere in teh city

We were in CM this past winter. while the Sunday night walking market is large, it is packed. It was difficult to walk down the streets in most of it. Loved CM.

Thanks BillT, crellston, and yestravel. Sounds like the CM walking market may not be worth shifting my plans around and rushing out of BKK. So far I have two full days and most of a third day in CM. I have an extra day to add somewhere on the trip - is there enough to do in and around CM for almost 4 days?

Mary, people feel differently about CM. After two days in CM I'm bored. And the walking market is certainly not worth shifting your plans around for, IMO.

I'm a Bangkok person. I could spend endless amounts of time in Bangkok and never get bored. So you might add an extra day to Bangkok or to LP.

If you like huge buzzy cities, add your day to BKK - there is certainly enough there to keep you endlessly busy. If you prefer a more mid-size town where you need to search a little more to discover its joys, add it to CM. if you like a small village/town, add it to LP which is charming.

I really appreciate this thread and I am following it carefully. We need help in planning our itinerary, too. Let me know if I should start a new topic/question, please. We are flying into BKK and then going right to CM. We have 4 nights in CM @ Baan Orapin, ending 11/12. We fly out of Chiang Rai to BKK 11/21 and spend 3 nights there at Evergreen Place. Then, we are going to Singapore for 4 days, as we have a friend there. We need advice on the itinerary in the north. We assume we will go to a cooking school and the Elephant Conservation center for 2 of the 4 days in CM and will need the first day to sleep off jet lag. We would like some authentic village experiences (happy to hike in and sleep over), caving, hiking to waterfalls, small village or towns. We have been awaiting a reply from a recommended tour guide, who we could have for 4-5 days. Any thoughts about these 9 days after CM? Should we add Laos to the itinerary? Thanks in advance.

yestravel has put it perfectly. It is very much a personal choice and you do need you work a little harder to make the most of Chiang Mai. I really like CM and have visited 4 or 5 times and still find something new each time. I would say there is more than enough to keep you interested for 4 days especially if you include a day out of town say to teh Elepahnt centre or Doi Inthanon NP.

Thanks Kathie, yestravel, and crellston. It's always difficult to decide when you haven't been to a place and can only base it on other people's experiences. Will have to think about this.

Virginiafish - would you want to share the name/contact info of the recommended guide? That would be a help as well. Thanks.

Charlie-he was recommended by Jermsak. We are awaiting a reply. Prior to booking our flights, he had been in regular contact. Possibly, he in on a tour currently.

Jermsak is fabulous! We were lucky enough to get him on a last minute basis for a day outside Chiang Rai. I know he goes to CM, but not sure if that is only if he can work it in.
Here's my post about Jermsak
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...msak-in-cr.cfm

Thanks virginiafish and yestravel. Yestravel, did you use Jermsak for touring, trekking or hiking?

nycmary, the Hotel de la Paix is a lovely place. We stayed there on our frist trip to Siem Reap. It was recently bought by a major hotel group, so I'd check for any renovations going on. It is definitely in "town", though not down on Pub street. Maybe a 10 minute walk to the old market? I can't remember as I'm usually on a bicycle or tuk tuk in that area.

Virginia- youd be better off posting a new thread. Asking for ideas for a totally new itinerary really confused me. I thought you were the OP and had changed your mind!

We used him only for touring. He drove us around in his car for close to 12 hours. He suggested many sites to c and we picked the ones we wanted to c given that we only had the one day with him.

Thanks lcuy and yestravel. I think I have my itinerary down, with all your help!

Still looking for recommendations for any guides who take people hiking and biking in CM and LP, speak English, and drive a good car. I have found several outfitters online but I'd always rather go by recommendation. Any suggestions?

A couple thoughts - You might contact Jermsak and see who he recommends. He worked for a tour agency for 17 years I think before going out on his own. Also check Trip Advisor which has a pretty active board on Thailand. Additionally there is a poster on this board, schlegal, who was happy with the guides she used for trekkin/hiling. U could do a search and find her TR.

Jermsak was our guide in the Golden Triangle area during our 2008 trip and we thought he was one of the best guides we ever had. If you can arrange something with him, you won't regret it. I remember that he said he worked out of CM as well. Just to add to your confusion, we strongly prefer BKK to CM. as for HDLP in Siem Reap, we stayed there when it first opened and it was really fantastic. But I thought you were asking about the one in LP, which didn't exist when we were there. We stayed at 3 Nagas but had a room in the annex that I didn't like because the exhaust from the restaurant was so close to our room that it was filled with an awful smell. Although we didn't stay in the main part, I think the rooms were similarly furnished, but I would want a room on the top floor so that I wouldn't hear noise above me. The floors are all wood, no carpeting.

Thanks again yestravel and FromDC. I will reach out to Jermsak and see if he can help me. FromDC - At this point I will be spending 3 full days in BKK and in CM. Sound reasonable?

My personal preference would be 4 in BKK and 2 in CM if you have 6 days. We just love BKK and weren't really taken with CM. One of our days in CM, we went to Doi Ithanon and really liked it and you can see other things along the way. Then you have one full day to explore CM, for me that would be enough. If you can get Jermsak, it will make it much more enjoyable and he might have some suggestions.
If you stay longer in BKK and have any interest, we really loved the Bangkok Food Tour. We did the nighttime Chinatown tour and will do another on our next visit.

HLP is a fabulous hotel in Siem Reap its been bought though by the Hyatt, which make me think it will increase in price when it reopens.

Thanks FromDC. Will definitely consider your suggestions in BKK. Didn't know about the Bkk Food Tour and Chinatown tour. Always great to hear about what to do. Thanks Smeagol. I also heard great things about HLP. Good confirmation.

A second vote for the BKK Food Tour. We did the tour in the day and it was fun and interesting and delicious.

Thanks yestravel. Appreciate your comments. Getting hungry already:-)

If you need a reliable driver in Siem Reap for part or all of the time we were very happy with Vuthy. He has an air conditioned Camry. We also are involved with theplf.org and stayed at the 7 Candles guesthouse... it was a wonderful trip.

Vuthy's English is good and he drove us out to more remote places/temples and explained many cultural things and activities along the way at several interesting stops. We also went to the Lake on one of the visits. He negotiated our own boat and he came with us to explain things.

He and his wife just had their second baby, so, exciting times for all. If you do contact him, tell him his friends from Spain say "hello"!

Vuthy: [email protected]

We did a fun bicycle tour in BKK through http://www.absoluteexplorer.com/

I'm sure I found out about it here through one of the frequent posters and it was a great day out. gave us a nice feel for the countryside in the middle of our city frenzy time in BKK.

Your trip sonds marvelous. Have a great time!

Thanks so much lincasanova. Will also check out the bike tour in BKK. Sounds great for us! Getting so excited by all the wonderful suggestions coming through from this site. Thanks to all.

Re. Discovery Pass. We are going to Thailand, Laos & Cambodia at the same time as you & were able to get the Discovery Pass. Did you email Bangkok Air? Our first flight is BKK - CM, CM- LP, LP - SR, SR - BKK. I believe it is about $500.

You've gotten some great tips here that I will use myself in planning the rest of my trip. We are using Angkor Walkers for a guide. There was a recent review in the NY Times & my emails were promptly responded to.

Good luck in your planning. It did take a lot of work for my husband to reserve those flights & numerous emails & unhelpful phone calls.

Wow - Angkor Walkers guides are expensive - unless the guide cost includes a car and driver.

We used Bangkok Air Discovery Pass for our trip last year. I contacted them thru email and it was fast and efficient. No trouble at all.

Kathie - Angkor Walkers is $35 for 3 people for the day. That seems comparable to what other guiding companies are charging. The transport is extra but other Angkor tour companies are charging approx. $70 for the day with transport. Angkor Walkers quoted $20 for a tok tok & $40 for a car. Does that seem expensive? If so, do you have other recommendations for guides?

On the webpage, it shows rates from $35-55 per day for a guide, depending on language. Generally, you should be able to get a car for $30 a day and a guide for a similar amount. So the other companies charging $70 a day with transport is at the top of the range. The companies that arrange guides and drivers are always more expensive than individuals you contact with directly.

I always recommend Ponheary Ly or her brother, Dara if you want a guide.

Thank you for your response. I will rethink Ankgor Walkers & pin them down on the pricing.