dgunbug--

I just now had the time to sit down and read through this. I'm sorry that in many ways your trip has been less than thrilling for you and that you've been not feeling well.

Kerala and the south are definitely different from the north, with fewer purer sightseeing opportunities and more opportunities to just enjoy the general ambience and the area.

It is interesting in comparing our different takes on the same places. We liked Cochin more than we thought we would, but we also stayed in an area where we were able to walk everywhere. I think that makes a huge difference and probably contributed to your dissatisfaction. As far as Mumbai, we too arrived in the wee hours of the morning, but we had one less night than you did so I understand your comment about one less day maybe being perfect. We chose to stay in Conoor rather than Ooty for exactly the reason you mentioned. Ooty is really just a sprawling city that happens to be at a higher elevation.

I am suspecting the fact that your husband is having some mobility issues and also that neither of you is feeling too well has impacted your enjoyment. On our trips we always walk around a lot (we did this in Mumbai too), and I think this helps with getting the feel for a place.

We were fortunate that we had a great boat trip (in a very small canoe sized boat) through the vey small canals of the backwaters where we really got to observe people in their daily routines. What we saw sounds like nothing at all that you mention. We also rode the public boat between Alleppy and the area where our homestay was located. This also doesn't sound like the ride you describe. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your day.

On our trip last year we had wanted to visit Hampi but logistics made it impossible. I think if we make a return trip to anywhere in the area we will visit even though you now say you really only needed one day there.

As this is a live report, I am hoping that you really don't roast to death when you venture over into Tamil Nadu. We had the intense heat of Kerala hit us by about the 20th of February, so I was interested to read your comment that it was really hot in Cochin.

Julie's - I remember reading your report and thought - glad we didn't stay in the home stay where you experienced all those mosquitos and glad we weren't bicycling! (It was you that bicycle for several days, or am I mistaking you with someone else?). We ran into a young man from England who was on his own in Cochin, just starting out and planning a bicycle trip to munnar. I thought of you when he told us and warned him of the traffic and mountainous roads. I don't think he knows what he is getting into. You are probably right about my husband's mobility issues and our illnesses putting a bit of a damper on this trip. We really like much more wandering and interaction with the people.

Today we drove between Thekkady and Munnar which is known for its beautiful tea plantations and cooler weather. The drive itself was enjoyable despite being another long haul. The forest is beautiful with colorful flowers beginning to pop out all over. I would imagine that this highway is even more spectacular in the springtime when the blossoms are in full bloom, although the downside would be the terrible heat.

Yesterday we were fortunate to have heard there would be a three day strike at gas stations in Kerala and we were able to get sufficient fuel for our next few travel days. This morning our driver learned that the store owners shut down their businesses including restaurants, to protest high taxes. Our driver was not able to get breakfast for some time.

Approaching munnar we were rewarded with picture postcard views of the magnificent tea plantations. It is truly a breathtaking scene everywhere we turn. On a sadder note, we were not surprised to hear on the news that India is now the most polluted country in the world, surpassing even China. We can see how true this is...never have we seen such pollution.

More later...Again, thank you to those following along and for your comments.

dgunbug--India's pollution is bad, but try a visit to Kathmandu and you'll observe some really bad air pollution. Yes, I am the one of the bicycle trip and mosquitos.

I should add that after I posted about the mobility issues and health issues perhaps affecting your impressions of the place, I had nagging second thoughts. There are places that just do not call to people as much as others. Perhaps southern India is one of those for you. I hope there are some redeeming factors in your trip. It also sounds as though you are doing a lot of moving around for long distances, and I know how tiring those can be in developing countries even when all you are doing is just sitting in the back seat of the car.

Julies - the traveling and illnesses are definitely wearing. We certainly didn't realize the long travel days after Hampi. Trips of 100 km take 4 or more hrs. Also - living in Florida and having much of the same type of scenery that we saw in the backwaters, may be one of the reasons for our disallusionment. As Dogster said, if you like palm trees, you'll love Kerala. Sure do miss Dogster's humor and sarcasm.

Our hotel is inconveniently located outside of town and our "Panaramic view", while pleasant, does not overlook the tea plantations. As my husband was feeling as I did last week, we stayed in yesterday to let him rest. I took a short walk in the local vicinity, but felt unsafe as the road is so narrow and a major thoroughfare. There was not a lot nearby to see anyway. Dinner last night was very good here at the hotel. We chose two North Indian dishes which we find we like better than the southern Indian food which is more spicy.

This morning we drove to visit a local garden, one of the major tourist sites here in Munnar. While the flowers were pretty, we felt like we were walking through the garden department at Home Depo - not very impressive. There were, however several local species of plants that we had never seen before and it was a nice diversion for a short time.

From there we drove to the Mattupetty Dam overlooking the large lake where motor boats can be rented (we didn't see anyone on the lake) and to Echo Point, a section of the lake where tourists can hear their voices echoed back at them. The ride was pleasant as the forest area is beautiful. Shops line the parking lot above the lake and food stalls and souvenirs are for sale.

Our last stop was a tea museum that had an excellent film documenting the history of the tea industry in the area. I learned that the local tea plantations are now part of a co-op that is owned in part by its workers. The museum also showed how tea is processed and I for this stop was definitely worthwhile.

While we had intended to walk around the town and market, my husband was fading fast, so we returned to our room after going for lunch with our driver.

By the way...opinions would be appreciated on what to give our driver as a tip. He is an excellent driver and the source of good information.

I feel for you travelling with health issues, it's never easy, especially in India.

Good to hear you enjoyed the tea museum.

We found out late in our 7 day drive (it was in Rajasthan) that we should have been tipping the driver $10 a day.
He got a bit surly by day 5 !

Thanks for your "warts and all" report.

We had an interesting discussion with our driver about Indian corruption. He told us that the public school system is not good and anyone that can, will send their children to private school. He explained that while the government provides food and uniforms for the school children, often times the local officials keep the funding and do not pay the teachers adequately or provide what is supposed to be given to the children. Likewise, public assistance which is sometimes given for needy families, is not always available because of the corruption at the local level. All this is very sad for the struggling families.

Still following along and enjoying your candid take on your experiences in southern India. As for tipping, I would tip a minimum of $10 a day for a good driver, and more if he is exceptional or is also acting as a guide. Hope your husband is feeling better, and you enjoy the rest of your trip.

we have found the indian drivers avrind supplies to be above excellent, and a real source of enjoyment. we over tip them and also buy gifts. for example we have given anoop and Krishna money, but also paid anoop's train fare for him to go home to see his family (10 hr journey by train), plus bought a sari for his wife.
I should think $10. per day would be adequate, but more for exceptional service.

We were thinking about $400 for three weeks - just wanted to be sure that would be a good tip. By the way, as it turns out, Arvind works with a company called marvel tours in the south, so it is really their driver. He's a fine young man with great driving skills and a nice personality. We couldn't be happier.

This is what was recommended by the head of TGS tours, which has been written about before on this Forum:

<i>For drivers tipping will depend on the duration the driver has spent with you. For a simple transfer from airport to hotel etc Rs 100 to Rs 150 is adequate. For local city sightseeing would be Rs 200 to Rs 350 per day (up to normal 8 hours use) depending on how long you have used the driver. For outstation tours, Rs 250 to Rs 500 a day where the driver has spent multiple days outstation with you. Please tip the driver more if you have used him for more than 8 hours during the day.</i>

As of today, the high end per day (Rs500) is $ 7.41. So for 3 weeks, the recommended amount would be $155.61.

And keep in mind that was for Rajasthan, where prices are higher than in South India.
Now on our just completed trip, we gave both our drivers more than that amount, because we felt they both went above and beyond for us.

But based on the TGS guidelines, about $155 would be normal for your trip.

BTW, our experience with TGS was excellent. Interestingly, they provided arrangements when (then) President Clinton visited India!

In South India, we used a different service, which we had used on our last trip, and they were cheaper than TGS. But they also provided less service. We felt that South India was so much "easier" than Rajasthan, based on our prior experiences, so we felt comfortable going that route.

I agree that $400 for three weeks of a driver is way too much. If you really had a great driver and a good experience with him, then perhaps half or a little more of that amount would be a good tip.

I know this is a very difficult and subjective thing, especially since we are all so wealthy when compared with the earnings of most people in India. Travelers also need to keep in mind that their tips should be somewhat within the average range so it does not really throw the tip expectations out for whack for future travelers.

Now a question for others here: When we have had drivers for an extended period of time, we have always waited until the end of the trip to tip. Do you give one big tip at the end or tip along the way?

"When we have had drivers for an extended period of time, we have always waited until the end of the trip to tip. Do you give one big tip at the end or tip along the way?"

Great question, as I am wondering if a good approach is to give a reasonable tip on a daily basis to a good driver, with a promise of a bonus if he is exceptional.


dgunbug: still following along. Many thanks for your stellar efforts posting 'on the road'. Really looking forward to Tamil Nadu.

Best ... Ger

julies,
I asked the exact question to Nikhil at TGS. He told me that drivers know that if they get a tip, it will come at the end of the trip, and that is what they expect. He said that is the standard procedure in India.

Give entire top at end of trip.

For me, $10 is bare minimum for a safe, personable, informative driver in India, given its insane driving and often poorly maintained roads, including some narrow winding ones. I am acutely aware , more there than in many places, that my life is in the hands of the driver, So I give more. It is a very personal and --based on heated discussions I've read on assorted forums-- controversial decision. A good driver in India also does double-duty as a cultural/reality guide (vs, for ex, VN where drivers and guides are separate ). Dgunbug related their driver's description of corruption and schools. This is but one example of how a driver can add to the India travel experience, beyond the basic job requirement of transporting safely from point a to b.

june, for sure give what your heart feels is right.

I would pay little attention to what a tour agency has to say. they would wayyyy lowww ball it.

remember this is a personalized tour not a group tour.

rhkkmk, I'm confused. Did I write something that made you think TGS was a group tour? It sounds to me like they're providing the same service that dgunbug is getting - a driver who is also providing some interesting conversation. If I'm misreading the situation, and if dgunbug's driver is an official tour guide, then that would change what the tip should be.

I used TGS after reading about the positive experiences that both julies and progol had with them. I too had a very good experience, and after having met and talked with Nikhil, I believe he cares a great deal about the welfare of his drivers and would not "lowww ball" advice for a tip. On the contrary, he seemed concerned that drivers not be taken advantage of. And his recommended range for tipping are certainly higher than what many Indians would give. But like many here, I too looked at the recommended top end of 500Rs per day and felt I should give more based on excellent service. It is hard balancing what we can afford with what will create tip inflation.

To clarify - are we talking about per person per day or for the total car per day?

The figures I cited are total for a driver per day, not for each person in the car. And that is for a private driver, not for a group tour driver.

And how is your husband feeling? Better, we hope!

Feeling better this morning, we decided to take a brief stroll through the town of Munnar before heading to Madurai. We enjoyed looking at the market, the town, people and the church, temple and mosque, all situated close together. Munnar is a beautiful area and worth the visit. Although we enjoyed Ooty and Conoor, I believe there is a lot of redundancy in the scenery which is IMO is better in Munnar. Although we didn't see much of Thekkady due to illness, I suspect it would be enjoyable for those spending time in the park area and forest. However, if one really wants to see animals, I believe Africa is the place to go.

For those who are prone to motion sickness, I do not recommend any of these places as there are many narrow hairpin roads with frequent switch backs. Nevertheless, the road is one of the most beautiful we have taken. Bursts of color from flowers were a delight to see and the forest was lovely.

As we drove down the mountain leaving the state of Kerala and entering the state of Tamil Nadu, we could see obvious differences. Tamil Nadu does not have the wealth of the Kerala state and we are told that the main source of income is agriculture. The land is flatter and dryer with rocky mountains in the distance. The housing and shops are not as nice as that which we saw previously. The road, for the most part has been well maintained and the traffic has not been bad. While it's been a long drive, it's been very pleasant.

And wow...our hotel grounds and room are gorgeous! Off to explore...