I'm sure this will be a wonderful trip, Robbie!

As many of you noted, places like Iwaso won't accept booking so far in advance so I'll have to wait. Any hotel ideas for our first stay in Tokyo? Different part of town from later stay at Park Hyatt.

"still unsure about why you all rec two nights in Hiroshima, before 1 night Miyajima"

Hmmm ... I think only one of us made that recommendation. Given that you have travel days before and after your time there, I would think it makes sense to have TWO nights in the area, either one in each place or both in Miyajima, with a day trip to Miyajima. JMO.

If you cut a night from Hiroshima, you might consider adding it to Kanazawa.

Should be great no matter what you choose!

I would certainly not suggest two nights in Hiroshima and 1 in Miyajima! I would move it's position in the itinerary so it's not directly after Koyasan but after Kyoto. I'd then leave Kyoto first thing in the morning, spend the morning / early lunch in Hiroshima, then head to Miyajima, arriving there early to mid afternoon. Overnight there, spend some of the next morning there and then head to next place, perhaps Nara. You could certainly appreciate two nights there if you have the time, but I did it with the one night, arriving to Miyajima around 3.30 and leaving around 10 or 11 the next morning. There was more we could have seen but we enjoyed what we saw tremendously and didn't feel rushed.

Is there a reason you want to break up the Tokyo portion? you could stay in Tokyo for 4 nights at the beginning, then go to Takayama if those are the festival dates, then to Kanazawa, then to Kyoto, etc. You could fly out of Osaka ( or maybe even Hiroshima) and make the connection home through Tokyo (we are doing this in May using miles on ANA, the return flight is a short domestic flight from Osaka to Tokyo for no extra miles). Would save you from additional dreaded airport time.

If you keep this basic itinerary and return to Tokyo, we really liked being next to Tokyo Station and will stay in the same area (same hotel) for this trip. Convenient transportation, near Ginza and Imperial Gardens and IMHO Tokyo Station itself is a destination.

>> You could fly out of Osaka ( or maybe even Hiroshima)

or Fukuoka. From Hiroshima station to the Hiroshima airport (HIJ) is a bus ride. From Hiroshima station to Fukuoka airport (FUK) it would be a shinkansen to Hakata and then a subway.

>>and make the connection home through Tokyo

or with *A miles connect via Seoul on Asiana (if you can get their newer BC seats for the transpac)

I can recommend the Best Western in Takayama. Great location near the station. English is spoken.

A couple of reasons on splitting up Tokyo, not necessarily compelling ones. I get overwhelmed by big cities so 3 days at a time is plenty for me. I also wanted to experience the Park Hyatt Hotel in Tokyo (overrated?)but three night is already a budget stretch. So where would you stay in Tokyo FromDC? For complex reasons we need to keep our return flight departing at 12:05 am.

Kavey why do you suggest changing the Kyoto,Koyasan, Nara oreder?

Hi Robbie

I think the trip from Koya-san to Miyajima would be too convoluted for my liking, as you have quite a few changes involved. On our first trip we did a somewhat similar itinerary, but we came straight from Takayama to Nara, which worked very well.

If you do prefer to keep 1 night in Hiroshima plus the 2 on Miyajima, I'd probably do something like this, below. If you're happy to drop Hiroshima as an overnight, I'd put that extra night in Kyoto. It may seem a long stretch for Kyoto but there's so much to see and you could do additional day trips such as Yamazaki for whisky, Uji for tea, Kobe for beef etc.

10/11-12 train from Takayama to Nara, 2 nights
10/13-18 Kyoto
10/19 Koyasan
10/20-22 1 night Hiroshima and 2 nights Miyajima
10/23 Night in Osaka
10/24 Return to Tokyo

Purely suggestion, though!

Oops, sorry that's my bad, wasn't concentrating as I typed that, let's try properly:

10/11-12 train from Takayama to Nara, 2 nights
10/13-18 Kyoto
10/19 Koyasan
10/20 Osaka
10/21-23 1 night Hiroshima and 2 nights Miyajima
10/24 Return to Tokyo

(We took the train back from Hiroshima to Tokyo too, and it worked very well. About 5 hours or so I seem to recall but a very easy journey).

I went from Miyajima to Koyasan. I did not find it overly difficult, but of course, I was prepared for numerous changes of transit and had taken advantage of a takuhaibin service.

I was glad to route directly from Nara to Kyoto, as it made it easy to see Uji and Fushimi Inari en route.

Given your interest in seeing the festival in Takayama, I thought your proposed routing worked well. The ONLY change I would suggest, as noted above, would be to shift one night from Hiroshima (1 night is plenty) to Kanazawa (where you could, IMO, use it).

And if you don't think you can shift you times in ways that allow you to add a day to Kanazawa, then you might consider stopping in Kurashiki on your way to or back from Hiroshima / Miyajima, or add in time to visit Nikko from Tokyo....

IMO, 8 days for Kyoto and Nara is generous. And I'm envious! But with so much else that Japan offers, I would not ADD to that time when there are other ways that you could tweak your options. JMO.

And just to be clear ... I'm still suggesting that there is NO need to spend 1 night in Hiroshima AND 2 nights in Miyajima. 1 night in each, or 2 in Miyajima with a day trip to Hiroshima should work just fine. Again, JMO.

Robbie, we stayed at the Shangri-la. One benefit of the hotel is that they meet you just as you step off the train at Tokyo Station. When you buy your ticket for the train from Narita to Tokyo Station, it has a car and seat number. I called the hotel (or texted, can't remember) with all the info as soon as I got the train tickets and someone from the hotel was waiting for us right there at the platform. He took our bags and walked us through the station to the hotel. This was really important to me because I knew it would be very confusing when we arrived at the station and it really helped us get oriented - - he explained all about the station as we walked through. Others take the airport bus just for the reason that they don't have to worry about initially finding their hotel but that takes longer and I was anxious to get to the hotel. Obviously, it is an expensive hotel to get that kind of service but for us it was worth it.

Nara to Hiroshima is less than 3 hours. Koyasan to Hiroshima is almost 4.5 hours.

You could visit Himeji Castle on the way to Hiroshima. Or visit Korakuen garden and Okayama Castle. Night in Hiroshima. Next day, visit the Peace Park and go to Miyajima for one night. Next day have all day on Miyajima and return to Hiroshima for the night.

The ANA Crowne Plaza is a good location for visiting the Peace Park and there is a boat that goes to Miyajima from the PP.

The Rihga Royal Hotel is nice. Hiroshima castle is a short walk away and worth visit because of that. It is a short walk to the Hiroshima Bus Center where you can get the airport bus. It is less convenient to the PP and Hiroshima station.

The Sheraton at Hiroshima station is a good choice. It is steps away from the shinkansen side of the station, so it would be convenient for your arrival in Hiroshima. From Miyajima, you could return via JR ferry + local train or via boat to Ofuna + street car (then you walk across the station to the shinkansen exit to get to the hotel). A bonus to this is that there is an airport bus that departs from the shinkansen exit, so it would be very convenient.

The Hiroshima Granvia is also on the shinkansen side and might be a few steps closer to the shinkansen and airport bus. The room I had at the Sheraton (points + cash) was very nice. The one I had at the Granvia was just ok. YMMV

Thank you for all this helpful input. It was never my plan to spend two nights in Miyajima, not sure how that got conveyed. If Nara to Hiroshima is less than 3 hours, then when would we go to Koyasan with shortest train ride?
And yes, I can and will add 1/2 day to Kanazawa.
We are a bit concerned about the influx of people coming to Takayama for the festival. How can we be sure to get train tickets from Kanazawa to Takayama? How far in advance are they sold?

Your rail route from Kanazawa to Takayama would be via Toyama. From Toyama the trains are mostly unreserved locals. But there are four limited express trains that day and they have reserved seats. The schedule is at the link below. Back out an hour and a half from the Toyama departure times to find shinkansen that connect.

I would probably get that reserved seat in Tokyo. Not much worry, I think, as most people would be getting to Takayama from/via Nagoya.

Same for the day you leave Takayama, get the tix in advance. I was at the spring festival a few years ago. It ended on Saturday. I went out at about 10 or 11AM on Sunday and everybody was gone. Most must have left the night before, after that days's festival.

Oh, yeah, the link:

http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi/en/inter...chday=20151009

Toyama to Takayama is supposed to be very scenic, so definitely do it in daylight.

mrwunrfl, How do you access the interval time table for other routes? I couldn't find it myself on hyperdia, thanks.

And seek hotel suggestions in Tokyo in area different from Park Hyatt. The Tokyo city map is making me dizzy!

FromDC, the link to the interval timetable for each train is under the train name.

For example, in the link below the first result shows the shinkansen to take to Toyama to connect to the 8AM L'Ex to Takayama.

SHINKANSEN KAGAYAKI 536

Train timetable | <b>Interval timetable</b>

You can see the whole day's shinkansen schedule at that link for that segment. The train timetable shows the details for that particular train, from origin to destination with all stops along with turak numbahs.

http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi/en/searc...d&sum_target=7

We are also visiting Japan (for a wedding) in Aug/Sept 2016 ( hot time for a wedding I think)
I've read much of the comments FF have written and we also will change a few days itineraries
Thank you
Jj

The two nights on Miyajima was my *proposal* in place of your itinerary showing 2 in Hiroshima but I tried to convey that I'd personally just do 1 in each, or 2 in Miyajima and none in Hiroshima. 3 nights in that area feels a lot in total to me, especially when you could certainly enjoy more time in Kanazawa or elsewhere. But at the same time it may well be that you've identified a lot more you want to do in Hiroshima than I did and that's fair enough.

Thanks, mrwunrfl, I'm wondering what else hyperdia has to offer that I don't know about. For example, is there a way to tell when the shortest trip is between 2 points instead of searching hour by hour?

I don't see a way to do that, FromDC. Sometimes you don't want the fastest route, Do you want 151 min from Hiroshima to Nara with 2 transfers or 155 min with 1 transfer?

Here are two strategies for getting closer to what you want.

1) No need to search hour-by-hour. Do a search and scan the results to find the latest departure time. Your next search would be 1 minute later than that.

You can also change your Route Output option to 10. That will expand the time range of the results. With that setting, a search for Hiroshima to Nara departing 06:28. The latest departure is 08:13.

Next search should be 08:14 departure. The latest departure in those results is 10:13.

So, in two searches we can see departures over 3 hours 35 min.

2) You could try unchecking the options for Ordinary Train and Private Railway. This narrows the results down to shinkansen and limited express trains. Of course, this is no good if your are going to/from a place like Nara (no shinkansen or ltd exp) or Koyasan (no JR).

Doing this may or may not help, so you might have to play with it depending on O/D.

I tried it on a couple of routes and found an interesting result. It is misleading.

Click the link below. Notice that the departure time is 06:38 but the first result is 20:33, over 14 hours later! I knew Hikone was not served by shinkansen but didn't know there were ltd exp trains from Kyoto. There are only those 2 all day and they are at night.

Travel time on the ltd exp is 45 min with no transfer.

Check the box for Ordinary Train and search again. See a 06:42 Hikari to Maibara and then a JR local to Hikone. Take time is 45 min.

So the strategy doesn't work well for Kyoto->Hikone. But it can give an idea of the quickest travel duration.

The link:
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi/en/searc...d&sum_target=7

The short answer, FromDC, is: I think not. :)

What train passes to buy, if any???
In our 23 day trip, we will be taking the train 5 times for trips of 3 hours or more. Here are the possible trains/ routes departing around our desired times; they seem to favor the JR trains. I don't know if it is any savings to buy a JR pass. Here is a general outline.

Day 5 train from Tokyo to Takayama (need to book soon, its the time of their famous autumn festival) 1 transfer from Shinkansen Noisome to Ltd Express

Day 9 Kanazawa to Nara 1 trnfr from Ltd Express to JR Nara Line

Day 12 Kyoto to Koyasan 3to 4 transfers: JR Special Rapid,JR Yamatoji Rapid,Shinimamiya, Gokurakubashi

Day 19 Koyasan to Hiroshima 4 t0 5 transfers cable to Gokurakubashi, NakaKoya Line,to NK Express, Shinmamiya, Dobutsuen-mae, Shin-Osaka

Day 21 Hiroshima to Tokyo Shinkansen Nozomi
Of course, I don’t understand any of the above!

Nozomi is a type of shinkansen and you can't use one with a 7- 14- or 21-day JR Pass.

That's 17 days. I did a quick check and think that the 21-day pass at ¥59,350 is more than it would cost if you paid for individual tickets. But it depends on lhow you could use those extra 4 days of validity (like if you were planning to use the Narita Express or a day trip to Nikko).

You are going Kanazawa-Nara-Kyoto-Koyasan. I think you'd be better off going to Koyasan from Nara on non-JR trains.

If you are willing to move Hiroshima after Kanazawa then you can get a 7-day pass starting on Day 5 departing Tokyo and ending Day 11 when traveling from Hiroshima to Nara or Kyoto. You can use a different pass for Koyasan/Nara/Kyoto. Then just buy a ticket to Tokyo.

Joining the discussion late - for your travels in Kansai you might look at the local area passes, but with the trip via Takayama and then towards Kyoto that would probably be via Nagoya (and yes the trip Toyama to Takayama is very scenic, as is the route Takayama to Nagoya.

I am checking to see if 3-4 hotels wee want are available two days later to accommodate this proposed changed. If I cannot change the dates, I could buy a one way ticket for day 5 and then buy a 14 day pass, correct?
I read that you can only buy tickets or the pass 30 months in advance of travel, is that correct? What website would you use to buy the pass?

>>could buy a one way ticket for day 5 and then buy a 14 day pass, correct?

That would cost more than a 21-day pass.

There are different types of shinkansen: Kodama, Hikari & Nozomi.

1) Kodama - stop at every station so the trip takes longer, but the train fare is lower too.
2) Hikari, (or Sakura) – is a class in between the other two.
3) Nozomi - the newest trains with the fewest stops - but are not available to JR Pass holders.

I am not sure you can buy train tickets outside of Japan (unless you have some one in Japan who will purchase train tickets for you before your arrival.)

The Validity Period of a Japan Rail Pass voucher is "Within three months from the date the Exchange Order was issued", so you don't want to purchase the voucher too far ahead. You must turn in your voucher to exchange for a JR Pass within 3 months of the voucher's issuing date.

To purchase a JR Pass voucher, read http://www.japanrailpass.net/en/purchase.html#step_01
and click on the "North America" button link, scroll down past Canada to see list of sellers in USA, then purchase online from a seller close to your home. We paid $14 for FedEx shipping, and received the voucher in 2 to 3 business days.

There are actually many types of shinkansen (either train name and model). For instance, for Hiroshima back to Shin-Osaka you will probably be on the Sakura, and then swap to Hikari. The difference between Hikari and Nozomi is just the number of stops (they run the same speed).

One way Tokyo to Takayama is around Y15,000 and the difference between the 14 and 21 day rail pass is only 13,000, so you may as well go for the longer pass.

Also, you might find the trains via Toyama less crowded - I struck a day last year where there were only five reserved seats available on the day, but the unreserved carriage only had eight people plus my group - lots of space.

I'm beginning to understand. So if I get a 21 day pass, I would have to wait until day 21 of my train travels to purchase/validate the pass?

No. That is not correct.

For your September trip, you can purchase the voucher any time starting mid-June-ish but have it in hand by the end of August.

¥59,350 for a 21-day pass

Rearranging the trip as I suggested above would cost:
¥29,110 for a 7-day pass
¥13,710 for a Kyoto to Tokyo shinkansen
=======
¥42,820

>>So if I get a 21 day pass, I would have to wait until day 21 of my train travels to purchase/validate the pass?<<

mrwunrfl already gave you a short answer. The long answer is to go to this Japan Rail Pass page on Japan-Guide:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2361.html

Scroll half way down the page to read sections titled:
<b>Where and how can the voucher be exchanged?</b>
<b>Selecting a starting date in the future</b>
<b>How to use the Japan Rail Pass</b>
etc

Good info from japan-guide. It has a link to an agent for buying the voucher. They offer some pretty good deals. The quoted price of $249 for a 7-day is less than the current exchange rate. Plus free FedEx, a guide book, and a map and a timetable.