Revising our Japan itinerary 2
 

I hope you’re not all sick of me! I’m considering a change in our itinerary which will give us 2 more days in Japan but we’ll arrive in Fukuoka instead of Osaka. That changes certain parts of my itinerary. One of the reasons I’m changing it is that my current plan would have us in Kurashiki and Himeji on the Culture Day weekend, and that would make 2 crowded places even more crowded. We were in Kanazawa over that weekend last year and the popular places were really busy.

IF I make this change, I’m thinking of the following:

Fukuoka-2
Hiroshima -1
Miyajima -2 (yes, I’m getting sold on the idea of staying over)
Matsuyama - 2
Takamatsu -3
Kurashiki -2 (I don’t really want to stay in Okayama)
Himeji-1
Kinosaki-2
Kyoto -5

So the changes would be

1) staying 2 nights in Kurashiki, a place that seems to be both enjoyed for the atmospheric canals at night and cultural sites, particularly the O’Hara Museum (which I’d definitely want to see) but disliked for the crowds and commercialism.

2) staying the night in Himeji. I see no good option to otherwise visit the castle since I don’t see doing a day trip from Kurashiki then having ti make a trip back there to take the train to Kinosaki. If we stopped over on the way to Kinosaki, I think we’d be rushed to try to make the fast train. So I’m okay with a night here. I also don’t want to do too many 1 night stops and, with Hiroshima and Himeji, I’ve already made 2 1-night stops.

Of all the places, I’d probably drop the stop in a Himeji, much as I’d love to see the castle and add the day elsewhere, though the trip from Kurashiki to Kinosaki starts feeling a little more clunky.

Any other suggestions here. I haven’t yet changed the tickets between Taiwan and Japan but I probably should do it soon if I’m going to do it.

The deed is indeed done! We fly into Fukuoka instead of Osaka so now I’ll work on the itinerary from there. The one I posted above will be my working plan.

I’m thinking that we could do the day trip to Onomichi from Kurashiki since we probably won’t be doing it from Hiroshima since the current plan has us staying on Miyajima for 2 nights.

Two nights on Miyajima seems like a lot, especially if you don't like crowds. You may be better off spending the extra time in Hiroshima, from where there are more options.

Also note that Kurashiki is not on a stop on the Shinkansen, which means it will be hard to take day trips without a long and slow train ride or a transfer from a slow train to a Shinkansen. For example, leaving Kyoto, we stopped in Himeji for a visit to the castle before going to our ryokan in Kurashiki. Our options from Himeji to Kurashiki was either almost three hours one way on the slow train or a 20-minute Shinkansen to Okayama followed by another 20 minutes on the slow train to Kurashiki. It will be the same for Onomichi. If you are keen on taking day trips, Okayama is a much more convenient options, although it was one of the cities I liked the least.

tripplanner,
Thanks so much for your suggestions. I’m absolutely aware that the days at Miyajima can be very busy but I also wonder if, in fact, because we’re already there, we can explore less-crowded areas during the day and enjoy the peacefulness at night. We wouldn’t arrive at the island till late on the first and then, first thing, enjoy the busiest spots early in the day. We could, of course, return to Hiroshima after that but I would first like to see if there are quieter places on the island that we could visit during the busier times of the day. If not, I’ll plan on 2 days in Hiroshima instead, but there are a number of people who’ve stayed 2 nights and I’ll try to get a better picture of their experiences.

From what I’ve seen, there is a train that goes from Kurashiki to Onomichi that takes around an hour, and that’s about the time frame that is “acceptable” for a day trip for us. I don’t mind multiple train stops. If I’m mistaken about that, I’ll definitely want to come up with an alternative, but I really don’t want to stay in Okayama. Of course, we might actually enjoy our time in Kurashiki, so we wouldn’t have to take a day trip!

what tripplanner001 said

Thank you, as always. Having come up with a plan that I’ve now turned upside down, you must be wondering what the heck is she doing! Of course, this was all about adding an extra couple of days to Japan but it’s not making it any easier!

So…are you also recommending that we stay only 1 night on Miyajima and 2 in a Hiroshima? Would it be difficult to escape the crowds during the day?

If that is the case, and we stayed in Hiroshima for 2 nights, we could visit Onomichi from Hiroshima as originally planned, but I’m still curious about why you don’t recommend the day trip from Kurashiki, as it still looks doable to me.

Please clarify if I’m misunderstanding this, but it looks like the JR San’yō Main line (NOT the Sanyō Shinkansen) can go to Onomichi in about an hour. Yes, there are about 13 stops but there’s no transfer between trains. I live in NYC so 13 stops on a local train is no big deal.

Since I’m now traveling from the west, there’s no place to “stop” and see Himeji on the way so I’m inclined to stay there for the night. I think the additional visit to the temple on the hill might make it a worthwhile stop, anyway. In my original plan, we were stopping in Himeji on Culture day weekend which, I think, would be very busy. As I mentioned earlier, the crowds in Kanazawa that weekend on our trip last year were pretty significant in the popular places so I’d imagine it would be, too, in Himeji. And I just priced the cost of the hotel room for Nov 3 to Nov 4 in Kurashiki for this year - it was much higher than other days, even higher than the day before and the day after.

I really don’t want to stay in Okayama and I don’t want to do more 1-night stops, so is there another place you’d recommend other than Kurashiki?

I had also tried to work Tomonoura into the itinerary but if I go to Matsuyama and Takamatsu, that just doesn’t fit, much as it looks like a lovely spot to stay. But unless I eliminated Matsuyama and reworked the visit to Takamatsu, it just doesn’t seem to make sense.

So I “hear” you mrwunrfl and tripplanner, and I’m really trying to make sense of the plan, but I’m a little stuck now.

>> I don’t really want to stay in Okayama
yes, you keep saying that.

>> wouldn’t arrive at the island till late
well, don't do that. It is easy enough to get to Miyajima in the morning or afternoon from Fukuoka.

24 hours on Miyajima get you all the time periods of the day

Hiroshima to Kurashiki is
60 minutes on Nozomi plus local train via Okayama
66 minutes on Sakura plus local train via Okayama
80 minutes on Kodama plus local via Shin Kurashiki

I visited Okayama-jo, Korakuen, and Kurashiki on a day trip from Hiroshima. Visiting both cities was a bit much - it was the local trains for Kurashiki that made it so. Or could say that the stop to visit the Okayama sites made it a bit much. But am glad I visited all three.

Up to you how you want to spend the two nights, the full day, in Kurashiki. But it sounds like your plan for that day in Kurashiki is to visit Onomichi. IDK why that would be better than staying in Onomichi or Hiroshima.

I probably need to take a break for a while and I do have some time. I’m sorry to drive you a bit nuts.

The reasons for Kurashiki was, originally, a place to stop after seeing Himeji and before going to Takamatsu. I’m still planning to go to Takamatsu so we’d stay in Kurashiki afterwards but before Himeji. But I think I need to start over and see what works better.

Ok, your OP sounded like you were pretty well set with a plan. I don't/didn't see anything wrong with it it, so just agreed with what tp wrote based on my preference not to day trip from Kurashiki. But, if willing to spend an hour each way to Onomichi then day trip from Kurashiki to Himeji would certainly work. Anyway, this is tweaking and you do have time.

I'm a New Yorker like you, progol, so I don't mind trains either. My concern for you is getting from Kurashiki to Himeji, which will involve a transfer in Okayama. You would catch the Sanyo main line at Kurashiki, get off in Okayama, and then go on the Shinkansen to Himeji; otherwise, you're looking at almost three hours on the main line.

Aside from the main shrine and torii on Miyajima, Daisho-in is worth a visit, but if you visit the main shrine and torii early, you will hit crowds at Daisho-in. We didn't go up Mount Misen as the ropeway was closed due to winds and we didn't feel like hiking up, so that could be another thing to do on Miyajima. The island is quite small, so it's harder to escape crowds midday.

Thanks, mrwunrfl and tripplanner.

tp, I get what you’re saying about going from Kurashiki to Himeji. And will definitely revisit the Miyajima plan. My whole idea of staying over was to minimize crowds and going mid-day, as mrwunrfl suggests, or even starting early as you suggest, may not necessarily be the answer.

I really need to sit with this and let it percolate for a while. I feel like I’m trying to force something with this itinerary and it’s not working. And, we have a trip to Greece coming up next month and I better pay attention to that trip!

Sooooo…. I think I’ve got it…sleeping seems to help! And it’s slightly revamped but not too much.

Arrive from Taiwan at Fukuoka

Fukuoka - 2
Hiroshima-2 (day trip to Onomichi)
Miyajima-1
Matsuyama -2
Takamatsu -3 (lots to do in this area)
Naoshima -2 (stay in/near Miyanoura port)
Himeji-1(ferry to Uno, train to Okayama, change for Himeji)
Kinosaki-2
Kyoto-5

While I don’t hit all the spots, this seems to be a nice mix of things and that’s what I strive for.

Thanks! I don’t plan to revamp much more! (Fingers crossed….)

Rethinking the revision:

The more I look at my current itinerary, the more I think we should focus a bit more in Kyushu. I’m very torn but my current itinerary looks like we’re going to all the most popular spots, and I’m trying to visit a few (slightly) less busy places. The more I look at Nagasaki, the more it appeals to me.

I don’t think we’ll have ANOTHER trip to Japan in the future so this is more of a sampler of places that are slightly different.

We will travel by public transportation only.

I’m rethinking a stop to Himeji and a visit to Kinosaki. Much as I want to visit Kinosaki, my itinerary has us there on a Wednesday and many places are closed that day. I haven’t ruled it out but I’m (sadly) thinking it is a bit too far out of the way and I don’t want to do 1 night there.

So, my most recent plan and a couple of new ideas…

Here is my most recent plan:
Fukuoka -2
Hiroshima/Miyajima-2/3
Matsuyama-2
Takamatsu-3
Naoshima-2
Himeji-1
Kinosaki-2.
Kyoto -5 (day trips to Uji, Nara)

And one of two variations I’m thinking about:

1)The first, keeping the Shikoku stops in and taking the ferry route from Beppu to Shikoku. A bit of a schlep, but I think doable. I would like to add a day to Kumamoto but hate reducing the Kurakowa stop to 1 night. This is instead of Kinosaki:
Fukuoka -2
Nagasaki-3
Kumamoto- 2
Kurakowa-2
Beppu -1
Matsuyama -2
Takamatsu -3
Kyoto -5

2) Or, not go to Shikoku and the stop before Kyoto is up for grabs. I’ll be honest, I like the one with Shikoku more since it’s not quite on the beaten path:
Fukuoka-2 (day trip)
Beppu/Yufuin-2 (day trip to other)
Kurakowa-2
Kumamoto-3
Nagasaki-3
Hiroshima-1
Miyajima, Kurashiki, Onomichi, Kinosaki - 2
Kyoto -5

Thoughts?

1)
Kumamoto- 3
Kurokowa Onsen-2
Beppu -1
or
Kumamoto- 2
Kurokowa Onsen-2
Beppu -1
Kumamoto-1

or, quite possibly,
Kurokowa Onsen-2
Beppu -1
Kumamoto- 3

(I think I like the 3rd option best as you can get to K.O. in the afternoon and have the full day to visit the town. Am pretty sure you are aware that K.O. is reached by bus or car, no train)

2) Day trips are something you can decide on the day, of course.
Fukuoka-2 (day trip) (aassuming you mean Dazaifu, which is optional imo)
Beppu/Yufuin-2 (day trip to other) (pretty sure you would have no issue on getting trains for that as most of the Yufuin visitors are traveling to/from Fukuoka. Yufuin Station area was a zoo at end of last Oct)

> like the one with Shikoku more
me too

Thanks so much, mrwunrfl. I’m now pretty likely going to do the Kyushu/Shikoku trip.

One of the reasons for Beppu, though, is to set us up for the ferry to Ehime. It’s the only direct connection I see between Kyushu and Shikoku. Is there any other way to do it? Otherwise, it seems like Beppu is necessary. I thought Beppu could be fun for a night.

Or am I better off ending the Kyushu portion in Kumamoto then taking the train to Hiroshima and ferry to Matsuyama? Hmm, except we’d more likely end in Nagasaki in Kyushu if we’re traveling clockwise and the trip would be a bit longer.

The obvious route to Matsuyama is to blast on up to Hiroshima on the shinkansen and then the fast boat, but there are other options:
Kumamoto to Matsuyama (rome2rio.com)
Kurokawa Onsen to Matsuyama (rome2rio.com)

>> I thought Beppu could be fun for a night.
Except that you don't like one-night stops.
(the ferry trip maybe sounds better than it actually is. looks like there is an Oita ferry to Matsuyama, but Beppu to Yawatahama then an hour train ride to Matsuyama)

Bus from K.O. directly to FUK and then fly is a real option.

Many thanks again!

A single 1-night stop is fine - I just don’t want to have a series of them or too many of them.

I lean toward the ferry from Beppu - it looks pretty doable. A bit of a schlep but fun.

if we end in Kumamoto (don’t see how, tho) I’d take the Shinkansen to Hiroshima and change for the ferry.

I’d prefer not taking a flight.

>> if we end in Kumamoto (don’t see how, tho)
I showed you how.
Beppu -1

Ok, K.O. to Beppu bus can be only 2h 36 min. Bus to Kumamoto eki would take about the same time.

Good point. I’ll play it out both ways and see how it unfolds.

I’m happy with my Kyushu/Shikoku plans and now trying to refine the itinerary. We will be arriving in Fukuoka after 2 weeks in Taiwan.

Kyushu plan # 1 (most recent itinerary above)
Fukuoka -2
Nagasaki -3
Kumamoto -2
Kurokawa -2
Beppu -1
Ferry to Yawatahama, train to Matsuyama
(Shikoku itinerary, etc)

1a) Variation of above itinerary: instead of going on to Beppu, we can bus to Kumamoto and train to Hiroshima for the night. This seems to be similar in terms of the amount of time it will take for the bus/train/ferry though I lean toward going to Beppu with this routing.

But I just saw that there is a direct bus from Fukuoka to Kurokawa which looks much easier, so, instead, we could do

Kyushu plan #2
Fukuoka -2
Kurokawa -2
Kumamototo -2
Nagasaki -3
Hiroshima -1
Ferry to Matsuyama

And this looks to me to be an even easier itinerary, though we would miss Beppu (reviews are very mixed).

I’m leaning toward #2 - it seems just cleaner and we’d see Hiroshima after all.

Thoughts?

Recommendations for hotels in above places and favorite ryokan in Kurokawa most appreciated. We are traveling by public transportation so accessibility is important.

Fukuoka Grand Hyatt
Hiroshima Sheraton Grand (maybe 3 min from shinkansen, get a room on the station side of building to get a good view of shinkansen and local trains coming and going. The lobby is a few floors above ground level by elevator and then a room higher up is quiet).
Hotel Patio Dogo, Matsuyama

Kurokawa Onsen Travel Guide - What to do in Kurokawa Onsen (japan-guide.com)

((l)) Yamamizuki Bettei Miyama Sansou ((l))
<山みず木別邸　深山山荘>
Detached Japanese/Western-style Room with Semi Open-air Bath (2 Beds)

Thanks, mrwunrfl! The ryokan looks lovely and a wonderful place to stay. It’s a bit higher than I’m hoping to spend, but maybe worth a splurge.

I take it you approve of my latest plan - it makes sense, doesn’t it?!

Yep, they're fine. You mentioned mixed reviews and I could have put in a good word for Beppu but didn't want to encourage you.

I think some comments about Beppu that I have read are a bit harsh. I visited Beppu twice.

The first time was just for the day. I had taken a wonderful train ride up from Aso. My memory of the place was that it was unattractive, but I did have a good day. I visited Jigokudani which was fun and then stopped for a soak at two places, one was really nice. Then I went to Fukuoka for the night.

The second time I made an overnight visit to Beppu, staying at a very nice ryokan. The energetic okamisan picked me up at the station, I stayed at the ryokan the whole time, and then she drove me to the station the next day. So, the destination was the ryokan (Beppu Showaen), not Beppu.

Thanks, mrwunrfl. There are some folks who really enjoyed Beppu and others who didn’t care for it at all. It seems a mixed bag at best.

For now, I like the ease of traveling directly to Kurokawa. The trip from Nagasaki to Hiroshima looks pretty easy (at least it’s all on the train!) and then we’ll only have the ferry from Hiroshima to Matsuyama.
—————-
Another question: IF I took one day from Kyoto, where would you recommend adding it?

Current plan:
Fukuoka-2 (1/2 day trip to Nanzoin)
Kurokawa-2
Kumamoto-2
Nagasaki-3
Hiroshima-1 (I’m fine with 1 night here)
Matsuyama -2
Takamatsu -3 (day trip to Naoshima included)
Kyoto-5

>> recommend adding
Fukuoka

>> very intrigued by Nagasaki
For very good reasons. It is not a typical Japanese city because of the historical foreign influences.

I have only passed through Kagoshima a few times (once when headed to/from Ibusuki and another time when headed to Kirishima Onsen and east)

Forgot to mention that the visit to Beppu Showaen was an overnight side-trip from Fukuoka.

i see you responded before I removed my question about Kagoshima. I decided to leave Nagasaki in and keep to my latest plan.

If I do decide to add a day, then, I'll consider Fukuoka. Thanks!

Here is an onsen town on your route to/from Nagasaki. It is the transfer station between the shinkansen and the relay limited express. That transfer, btw, is extremely easy and quick.

Takeo Onsen Travel Guide - What to do around the Takeo hot springs (japan-guide.com)

The photo at the top is just something you will see in the mildly interesting Shinkan mentioned on that webpage. The baths here are classic, at least Motoyu was, and no other foreign tourists. Classic is one way to say 'old' and 'has seen better days' and gives the sense that you are really in Japan now, bathing like a local. There are reservation-required private baths available. I saw the entrance to that and got the sense that it was more modern but could be wrong about that. I visited there from Ureshino Onsen where I was staying. Afterwards went to Saga and had Saga beef at a great place near the station.

There are a couple of scenic trains in the area, but don't know how good:
TWO STARS 4047｜JR KYUSHU RAILWAY COMPANY

The "gives the sense that you are really in Japan" feeling is opposite of having the feeling that you are in Disneyland, full of noisy foreign tourists pinballing about (like at Yufuin Station area or Philosopher's Path or Dazaifu)

Thanks so much for this. I don’t know if we’ll have time for a stop here but I love your description of “really being in Japan”. We felt that in Yamanaka onsen (Kaga onsen region) town where we, a Caucasian couple, wasn’t a common sight. The hotel had many people from Japan but few from elsewhere. In many ways, this was a real treat of an experience, feeling like we weren’t in tourist central.

I just returned (two days ago) from my latest Japan trip and am pulling together my trip report but since you mentioned Nagasaki, I wanted to add in my two cents. My cruise ship stopped there for one day before Tokyo disembarkation so I only had a day to explore but agree with the historical aspects that are worth seeing, not to mention the harbor setting.

The harbor is surrounded by hills/mountains and the downtown area has expanded beyond the flat area, so has grown up the mountain sides. It was a rainy day in late March so mist wreathed the hills - very atmospheric. Before I went to any sites, I needed to get Japanese yen from an ATM and I needed to put money onto my transportation card so that was easily done at a convenience store. As I left the cruise terminal, directly across the street was an old building and as I was reading the sign, they opened the gate so in I went. It was an old bank building circa 1896 from the predecessor of HSBC (Hong Kong and Shanghai banking Company - who knew?). I love looking at old buildings; this had an interesting interior style with high ceilings, beige walls and dark woodwork; very grand staircase; other than the ground floor which was set up as a bank would’ve been, the other two floors were all about Sun Yat-Sen and his great friend from Nagasaki, Umeya Shokichi. Umeya was a very successful businessman and gave a lot of money to support Sun’s revolutionary goals - for newspapers, arms, etc. He was so distraught when Sun died that he commissioned 4 huge bronze statues of Sun which he gave to the Chinese govt. Most of the detailed signage was in Japanese but there were some brief notes in English. Interesting from the context of banking at the turn of the 19th c and into the 20th.

There's a tram system that goes to most of the tourist sites, along with public buses. I decided to walk to the train station in order to buy my tickets for upcoming train rides once I got off the ship, which was about 20 mins away. The rain was steady but I enjoyed the walk due to the harbor, hills and misty clouds. The train station was easy to navigate even though there's some construction and I got my tickets quickly. My plan for the day was to visit Dejima, originally a man-made island from the early 17th c to segregate Portuguese merchants & traders from the Japanese population and control their missionary activities. Nagasaki was the center of Japan's foreign trade relations for many centuries and was the most important of only a very few ports open to restricted numbers of foreign traders during Japan's period of isolation. After the Portuguese were evicted, Dejima became the only place Dutch traders could live & work. A lot of historical buildings were preserved or reconstructed, including various residences, kitchens, warehouses, walls and gates. It was interesting seeing the differences between residences for Dutch clerks and captains, Japanese officials, and chief factors. Some of the buildings are furnished as they would have been, but most are basically empty or have museum-type exhibits. There are various warehouses that were used to store sugar, spices, copper, etc. and the corresponding exhibits told those stories very well via photos, tools, scales and other implements. I didn't count the number of buildings, but I'd say there were about 20 that you can go into. It was easy to get a sense of the historical townscape since the buildings are laid out in lanes, outdoor lamps, gates and a nice garden.

My plan was also to visit Glover Garden, an open air museum that exhibits mansions of several of the city's former foreign residents post-opening of Nagasaki following the period of isolation but the rain wasn't letting up so I didn't go but if you have time, it looks fascinating. I decided not to visit the WWII related sites in order to focus on the 17th-19th century history.

vickiebypass, Thank you so much for this wonderful description of your day in Nagasaki! That history is exactly why I think Nagasaki would be worthwhile to see - the fact that it was the only place open to the world during Japan’s isolationist period is fascinating and is why I think we’d enjoy seeing this city. A different experience to the rest of Japan.

I hope you had a wonderful trip overall and look forward to hearing more about it!

vickiebypass inspired me to look for my trip notes about Nagasaki. I was there more than ten years ago. I also went to Dejima - I had read a lot about it for some reason that I don't remember and found it so fascinating. I also stumbled upon the HSBC Bank where I had an account for many years in NYC. Also got to Glover Garden. And I did visit the Atomic Bomb area and remember thinking how nice the museum there was compared to the one in Hiroshima which was very crowded when I was there...anyway, Nagasaki is an interesting city to visit....

I am just back in Kyoto after a few days in Okinawa and Ishigaki - my first time there - quite different from the mainland...lol....

Thanks so much, Mara! Nagasaki is now really capturing my interest and I’m now even happier with my plan. If we don’t ever get back to Japan after this, we’ll have had a good and diverse sampling of the country and if we ever do….there’s so much more to see!

I just took a look at booking Yamamizuki Bettei Miyama Sansou.for Oct 25 and see it is available for ¥68,200 for two guests or¥56,650 for one guest. Also saw that it is ¥44,000 at Yamamizuki which one of the places that are highly recommended by japan-guide.

Am pretty sure that the reason I booked Miyama lodging was because Yamamizuki didn't offer a solo traveler rate (and still doesn't)

Minamioguni Hotels – Japanican.com

Thanks, mrwunrfl,
The early November availability should open up tomorrow and, fingers crossed, I’ll be able to book then.

I booked with japanican. They sent me an email saying that the ryokan wanted to know my arrival time so that they could pick me up at the bus stop. That worked well. I menmtioned on another thread that the guy picked me up at the bus stop at around 11AM or noon. Checkin time was 3PM or so, so he dropped me at the tiny tourist info center. He cam back hours later to take me to check in. Thar was for the Miyama property but I assume the same for Yamamisuki. Am kind of ok that I can't get a solo room there and would have to go to the more expensive Miyama place because then I might get to see the wonderful, sweet, young lady who waited on me for dinner (and who came out to smile and wave goodbye to me next day).

Thanks, mrwunrfl! It looks like I can book my days tomorrow.

Yamamizuki isn’t available on Japanican for my dates - I can wait and see if it becomes available on the actual website or elsewhere. Many of the ryokans haven’t released their availability yet but I will probably book something soon that is cancellable since it is a busy weekend.

we are also staying on miyajima for 2 nights and very excited. going kayaking under the tory gates and also want to go biking and enjoy the quieter spots.

Sounds wonderful, plumbers, I’m sure you’ll have a wonderful time. I’ve changed my route and am not planning a stay in Miyajima, but am looking to stay in Kurakowa Onsen in Kyushu in a ryokan.